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never test the depth of water with both feet.
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his counsel would claim he was just fulfilling his function i guess. 
Society/Culture Victoria Cross winner Ben Roberts-Smith - Allegations of war crimes
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schneebly111
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736 page full judgement just dropped:
schneebly111
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its very common that people in the ADF not want to progress in the ranks to SNCO.
A lot people prefer to remain on the tools for things like job enjoyment, chances for overseas operations and also posting location stability
so I wouldn't begrudge him that. a lot of diggers would prefer to remain a section commander out on the job than driving a desk or instruction in some bad locality.
the tax free dollars dont hurt either
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110 trial days is around 1 million per KC so that's 2 million for just the trial day work of the 2 x KC/ SC's involved, and before you get into the actual pre-trial prep, briefs, communications, filings, and legal work leading up to the trial itself.
I initially thought 25m+ was waay too high, but you've got Silks (on each side) running a case for several years (at 4 figures per hour), plus the grunt work by the Solicitors beforehand, plus the costs and difficulties of getting witnesses in Afghanistan (one of whom had to be placed in a safe house for months), the delays and difficulties over discovery (in light of National security concerns raised by BRS and the Commonwealth who appeared animus curae) etc.
I still think 25M+ sounds insane (I'd have it closer to 10-15M).
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- #2,682
Slow down.
The unit has a lot to answer for (the culture and leadership failures that let these Seppoland inspired meathead bullies thrive and get away with what they did) but that doesnt mean the entire unit was ****ed.
Many operators openly broke ranks to dog BRS in, including in this trial. And the pressure on them not to do so was immense. Most of the blokes in the unit are good value, but sadly a significant number are total meathead 'Punisher Spartan warrior' dickheads, with the weak officer corps of the unit largely to blame for letting these ****wits walk all over them and infect the unit with this toxic bullshit.
Honestly, I blame the weak leadership as much as (if not more than) BRS and others like him. Those officers could have (and should have) snuffed this shit out a long time ago, but instead they let it flourish, turning a willful blind eye to it, or being too scared to speak up against influential NCO's in the unit and letting those blokes spread that shit to others.
Exactly
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Ophidian Old Boys
Eye of the Storm, Billy Ratcliffe's autobiography, describes similar ineffective leadership from officers when confronted with strong NCO personalities in the Gulf war.
Now if only I can find out which campaigner I lent it to and never returned it...
Now if only I can find out which campaigner I lent it to and never returned it...
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Ratcliffe had a bit to say about them, as well...
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Ben Roberts-Smith alleged to have directed the killing of elderly imam in Afghanistan
Victoria Cross recipient Ben Roberts-Smith directed one of his SAS comrades to kill an elderly man who was dragged from a mosque in Afghanistan, according to allegations uncovered by ABC Investigations.
www.abc.net.au
Afghanistan has changed regimes since this went down, unsure what effect that will have but it will muddy things
Ben Roberts-Smith alleged to have directed the killing of elderly imam in Afghanistan
Victoria Cross recipient Ben Roberts-Smith directed one of his SAS comrades to kill an elderly man who was dragged from a mosque in Afghanistan, according to allegations uncovered by ABC Investigations.
Just like how the soft Left pretended the only problem with the US was Trump being rude and that Bush, Clinton and Obama hadn’t killed millions, watch all the same idiots pretend this wasn’t widespread in Afghanistan and Iraq. Remember this next time you all worship the troops next ANZAC Day.
Ask any soldier who has progressed through the ranks and they will tell you secco is the best job in the army.
The least amount of paperwork for the most amount of hands on command.
You arent a snake (sergeant) removed from the boys and doomed to a life of paperwork.
- Moderator
- #2,691
In SASR, patrol commanders are LCPL-SGT in rank. It's pretty flexible in that regard.
One of the snakes (the most senior) will be Troop SGT, but it's not unusual for Troops to have multiple SGT's.
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The mere existence of these units inspires the culture created and makes these types of actions inevitable. No, not all of the operators will be the meathead 'Punisher Spartan warrior' dickheads but as long as these units exist so will they and their crimes will be inevitable.
Leadership failures allow shit like this to happen.
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It does, and the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
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No it doesnt.
The 'pudding' you're referring to just spoke out about the above and want that Seppoland meathead shit out of the unit. The old school operators who embrace the 'elite not elitist' mindset of the unit back in the day. Quiet unassuming professionals who get the job done.
This whole toxic Sparta/ Punisher shit is a recent phenomenon in the unit. Started around 20 years ago, and leadership (the officers) let it flourish instead of stamping it out.
Embracing Seppo shit isn't an inevitable outcome, no matter how much you want to claim it is, and if anything this moment of reckoning for the unit hopefully ensures the officer corps see it for the cancer it is, and make moves to eradicate it.
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Hopefully, but I'm not confident. You would struggle to name many wars in which war crimes weren't committed by people of a similar mindset (regardless of which colours they wear) and it is the nature of the military and these units that they attract those kinds of meatheads in the first place. It's not inevitable that the people in the unit/military will all fall victim to this mindset but I think it is inevitable that these types of people will appear in that environment and it is inevitable that war crimes will be committed as there will always be failures of leadership or leaders who sympathise with those types.
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Special forces are in a unique position to select and vet people with the right mindset.
They can vet these idiots out at selection, and then (with the right culture in place) ensure they dont get a foothold in the unit going forwards.
The toxic campaigners were given too much rope to get a foothold and then flourish like a cancer, due to weak officer leadership.
The Troop Leaders (Captains) only do a few years in the role. When they get to the Troops, they're staring down 30 or so blokes, half of whom are NCO's (and have been in the unit for ever, doing multiple cycles through Black and Green roles) and who often have very... strong personalities.
It's not the same as in (say) a regular Infantry platoon where you (as the green LT) only have 1 x SNCO to deal with/ work with (and often some friction between the inexperienced Platoon commander LT and the crusty old platoon SGT), and you have a much more regimented system to fall back on (yes sir, no sir).
This is added to by the fact that the operators themselves are given a shitload of rope and freedom to do their jobs, without micromanagement. Heck, you're on 1st name basis in the unit more often than not (ranks are rarely used) and the OC (a Major) is generally getting debriefed on what happened in a mission by the patrol commanders more or less directly (LCPL to SGTs).
So it's not an easy task for the officers. I get that. But you're an SASR officer. With that comes the extra command responsibility of managing those personalities and dealing with those issues. The officers need to be prepared to yank a few chains from time to time, and reinforce those standards.
A textbook example of the above failings was admitted to by (then) Captain Hastie. As BRS Troop leader, his evidence at this hearing was 'I suspected BRS had committed a war crime at the compound I was in by executing or ordering an unarmed prisoner be executed, but I did and said nothing' and 'later, during the debrief to the OC about the mission, I sat there as BRS gave a fictional after-action report to the OC, and I said nothing and did nothing'.
Two opportunities right there and then by an Officer to stop this shit and get BRS to pull his head in, and he said and did nothing.
Instead, they awarded BRS the ****ing VC.
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not BRS related but recommend this article if you haven't read it
some very good insights that have some parallels with our current issues
www.nytimes.com
some very good insights that have some parallels with our current issues
Leaders Let Problems Mount at Brutal SEAL Course, Navy Finds (Published 2023)
Overzealous instructors, unchecked drug use, and inadequate leadership and medical oversight turned a tough selection course into a dangerous ordeal, investigators found.
So we spent ten years in vietnam and similar in iraq with none of this bs
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