Society/Culture Victoria Cross winner Ben Roberts-Smith - Allegations of war crimes

[CheapCharlie]

Why not separate it out to individual issues?

1. Roberts Smith wins a VC. DID he deserve it? Did he perform an act of valor?
There is no evidence to the contrary. The VC should be recognised for the rare award that it is.

2. War in Afghanistan and Iraq and war in general.
Opposition to war and Afghanistan and Iraq is fine, but it doesn't negate that the act of valor was committed and deserved.

3. Did Roberts Smith commit a crime of some type unrelated to his VC?
Quite possibly. No reason to lose the VC though as that action was seperate. If he did some crime there can be consequences for that.

4. Was he a suitable ambassador for some social issues?
In hindsight... maybe not

5. Did he enjoy the media attention and see a role for himself in the public sphere?
Yeah maybe. Nothing wrong with that. Plenty of military people mark out a public career after they leave the forces.

6. Has the government used him for PR reasons
Yes of course. It always happens.

7. Are the VC and other gallantry awards tainted or part of a military propaganda machine to garner support for conflicts?
They have been a well used tool in propaganda for a hundred years. Scrutiny is higher than ever now though... and there is always people looking for cracks in a story. Governments and military will spin what they can to win public support.
That still doesn't take away from acts of valor performed in war. You can have performed genuine bravery and deserve recognition... but the government can also seek to use that award as PR

 

[Toump Ass]

1. Roberts Smith wins a VC. DID he deserve it? Did he perform an act of valor?
There is no evidence to the contrary.

Did he deserve it? Who knows. Even if he did what was said, it kinda just sounds like he did his job.

But in any case show me evidence he performed this act: aside from some testimony from his mates that may or may not have also been war criminals. The sparta references in the quotes I posted are a little incriminating.

If he's guilty strip him of his VC. Ridiculous that someone who would bound and murder an innocent man (one who, ostensibly, he was supposed to be helping) gets an award for bravery, my god.

 

[CheapCharlie]

Did he deserve it? Who knows. Even if he did what was said, it kinda just sounds like he did his job.

But in any case show me evidence he performed this act: aside from some testimony from his mates that may or may not have also been war criminals. The sparta references in the quotes I posted are a little incriminating.

If he's guilty strip him of his VC. Ridiculous that someone who would bound and murder an innocent man (one who, ostensibly, he was supposed to be helping) gets an award for bravery, my god.

So you 100% disbelieve he performed an act worthy of the VC?
and you 100% believe he bound and murdered and innocent man?

 

[Toump Ass]

So you 100% disbelieve he performed an act worthy of the VC?

I'm just not 100% convinced he did.

and you 100% believe he bound and murdered and innocent man?

Can't remember all the specifics from the original fairfax article ie: not sure if he bound the person himself or just kicked him off a ledge etc.

But the article certainly painted a pretty grim picture.

Plenty more in this story yet, exciting stuff!

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

Those who have spoken up have risked an awful lot to do so.

A man in his position has friends in high places with considerable power. One witness has been harrassed by authorities.

It's highly unlikely that the allegations are untrue.

Considerable recources has been utilised by the journalist documenting these matters. This journalist first has to convince his editor and then his editor would have to convince management of the validity of the accusations as potential lawsuits could be costly.

The soldiers who spoke up follow Bushido and amongst the loyalist in armed services.

He shouldn't be asked to hand his medal in. What he did deserved the award. But he shouldn't be able to use the title that comes with it.

An investigation into who appointed him to the bodies he is on should be launched determining if the allegations against him were known and if attempts to censor them have been made.

Having read extensively on sas operations, they are trained to shoot anyone that may pose a threat to them in theaters they work covertly behind enemy lines where they are out numbered. This issue has troubled many patrols in many theaters. Possibly he made the right call but we can't judge as we don't know the facts of that operation.

If you read bravo two zero and the one that got away you understand the complexity of such situations.

Chris Ryan killed a few of people in his epic escape out of Iraq in the first gulf war and some of them on a small chance they might uncover him.

However Ben's treatment of fellow soldiers and his arrogance to the positions he has achieved based on his war service and it's use to Tony Abbott is enough

Many other special forces have made the call he did to kill that way and it's never made it out.

Consistency

 

[ShanDog]

I'm just not 100% convinced he did.

Your standard of proof is quite literally impossible to meet if you think so. In that situation there is only the word of those there plus the evidence collected (there is some - visit the AWM and you'll see photos taken after the fact). There's skepticism and there's... Whatever you're doing

 

[BlueE]

Mr Roberts-Smith's powerful portrait was one of 20 unveiled at the National Portrait Gallery in Canberra on Thursday night (18 Oct) as part of the celebration of the gallery's 20th anniversary.

 

[Fat Yak]

But cracks are starting to appear in Fairfax’s defence against Mr Roberts-Smith’s defamation action, with the widow of a SAS soldier coming forward about one incident involving her late husband in a Cottesloe hotel.

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/au...s-allegations-about-war-service-ng-b88997152z

 

[Schraderbrau]

But cracks are starting to appear in Fairfax’s defence against Mr Roberts-Smith’s defamation action, with the widow of a SAS soldier coming forward about one incident involving her late husband in a Cottesloe hotel.

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/au...s-allegations-about-war-service-ng-b88997152z

all it is is one person's account of an minor incident at a hotel. It's hardly a crack in Fairfax's defence considering the gravity of the other incidents alleged. It speaks nothing at all to the incredibly serious war crimes allegations which is what all this is about.

 

[Galaxie77]

This is great.
Aussie soldiers not perfect.... for years Aussies have criticized other nations soldiers.

 

[its free real estate]

If he is convicted of war crimes I hope Freo reinstate him as number 1 ticket holder.

 

[The Warlord]

Sounds like a real ******* piece of work. His political ambitions need to be derailed by this. Liberals have already given us ****os Andrew Hastie and Jim Molan.

Hastie is not supporting BRS on this though, he's on the side of the SAS operators who are concerned about what happened and want it all investigated and any crimes suitably punished.

It is the slimy home front heroes like Brendan Nelson who are the worst here.

 

[The Warlord]

To become an SAS member in the first place I'm not sure that you're going to be the sort of bloke you'd happily take home to meet mum, or have your daughter introduce you to.

Nah, having a high EI is a key part of what those blokes do, they aren't meant to psychos or sociopaths like say Marines and other shock troops.

They are meant to be able to talk to people, build relationships, all that sort of thing.

The whole problem stems from BRS and a certain crew going overboard on the "Leonidas" Spartan warrior culture bullshit. That's for grunts, not special operators.

 

[The Warlord]

He has lodged a defamation action in the Federal Court in Sydney against Fairfax Media.

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/au...-smith-speaks-about-allegations-ng-b88925473z

He's going to lose.

Hard.

 

[Toump Ass]

Love seeing BRS getting smashed in the media recently. And lol @ him coaching his side-bitch... "fell down the stairs", oh my god. Those text messages...

https://www.smh.com.au/national/wom...how-to-explain-black-eye-20181122-p50hlb.html

Also that "I shall never fail my brothers" tattoo is cringe as ****.

Your standard of proof is quite literally impossible to meet if you think so... there's skepticism and there's... Whatever you're doing

Rubbish. If it's proven that BRS is a liar (which is looking likely) then it follows that his testimony and that of his Spartan colleagues becomes doubtful.

 

[ShanDog]

Rubbish. If it's proven that BRS is a liar (which is looking likely) then it follows that his testimony and that of his Spartan colleagues becomes doubtful.

Sure, but that's not proof. It's speculation.

 

[The Warlord]

For those defending BRS - it is other SAS operators who are coming out against him, the men who were there on the ground with him and witnessed this stuff first hand.

As regards the incident where he allegedly hit the woman he was having an affair with, she made the claims.

It is Nick McKenzie and Chris Masters running the stories. Two of the best, most decorated and respected journalists of the last thirty years, who have caused Royal Commissions to be held as a result of their reporting.

They are not in the business of reporting hearsay or rumour or conjecture. Especially on something like this.

 

[The Warlord]

Sure, but that's not proof. It's speculation.

The results of the inquiry currently being held will settle that.

 

[The Warlord]

Love seeing BRS getting smashed in the media recently. And lol @ him coaching his side-bitch... "fell down the stairs", oh my god. Those text messages...

https://www.smh.com.au/national/wom...how-to-explain-black-eye-20181122-p50hlb.html

Also that "I shall never fail my brothers" tattoo is cringe as ****.

Rubbish. If it's proven that BRS is a liar (which is looking likely) then it follows that his testimony and that of his Spartan colleagues becomes doubtful.

I don't think there's any dispute about her falling down the stairs.

 

[Toump Ass]

I don't think there's any dispute about her falling down the stairs.

Yup, this is true.

What's in dispute is whether she got punched in the face as well, which looks to be true.

 

[The Warlord]

Yup, this is true.

What's in dispute is whether she got punched in the face as well, which looks to be true.

That is very true. His defence on that is very curiously worded.

 

[TheWoodenSlug]

Yeah we don't know for sure if he punched her - but she definitely didn't get the black eye from falling down the stairs, if I'm reading those text messages correctly.

 

[its free real estate]

Does this end with Ben Roberts Smith drinking poison in The Hague?

 

[The Warlord]

Does this end with Ben Roberts Smith drinking poison in The Hague?

Nah, it begins to end with the Inspector-General's inquiry handing down its findings.

Then the Australian Federal Police charging him with a range of offences as result of that, quite likely murder charges.

Then he loses his defamation case against Fairfax.

I don't know how it ends ends, but it won't be good for BRS.

 

[NSWCROW]

He does look like a bit of a campaigner fwiw