- Moderator
- #1,201
Are you saying that there are no laws made in the interests purely of conserving the state? Because that's manifestly untrue, and provably so.
Such as?
Bear in mind laws that allow conscription in time of war are liberal (an enemy invading the country causes great harm to all) as are laws that prohibit treason, espionage or insurrection (bearing in mind the State is the manifestation of the collective will of the people as expressed through their elected representatives, and treason or espionage can lead to great harm to the citizens of the State).
Here's the thing; chaos and mayhem certainly did ensue in both of those revolutions,
See my point on the dangers of treason and insurrection above. It seems we agree on the harm that treason and insurrection can cause citizens of the State, and thus the legal and moral authority of a liberal State to prohibit both acts (proportionately).
Chaos is not our natural state; we are co-operative by nature, not competitive.
I wholly disagree with you on that latter point. We're actually both. See also the ritual absurdity of sport (where we enshrine our competitive nature in an utterly absurdly complex theatre where we chase an inflated animal carcass around a grassy field in front of hundreds of thousands of adoring fans), politics, religion, economics, etc and divisions around race, politics, culture, ethnicity, geography, resources, gender, or even simply the fact we turn to drama and conflict resolution as our primary form of entertainment in the arts etc etc etc.
Like all species on this planet we are naturally competitive. Fiercely so. We're one of (if not the) most competitive species on the planet, capable of massacring millions of people over nothing more than a difference in ideology, or ethnicity.
Not only are we competitive, we ritualize our competitiveness in Sport, and lament about coming up second best in romance in song.
If you've ever seen a group of blokes and how they interact with women around out 'alphing' each other you'll know what I'm talking about. We're no different to any other species in that regard, locking horns with other males to prove our worth to women. Women also compete with each other for the Alpha male, and also compete with each other and form hierarchies (watch your girlfriends next book club if you dont believe me). Humans are overwhelmingly concerned with status, respect, dominance and submission.
Not all men and not all women. But Im sure you've seen this enough times to know what the heck I am talking about.
If the Zombie apocalypse comes, and anarchy rules, you'll see what I'm talking about when the laws that govern civilized society go out the window.
Or in the context of this thread (and to bring our side discussion back on point) see what happened when a bunch of SASR alpha males determined the laws that govern civilized conduct no longer applied to them. This whole murder-fest was literally spawned by alpha males, competing with each other for kill counts and acting like they were above the law.
Let that one sink in for a bit.