Society/Culture Victoria Cross winner Ben Roberts-Smith - Allegations of war crimes

[Kwality]

Hmmm, kicking unarmed elderly men off a cliff, slitting throats of little boys, raping girls/women, this is a conduct of a democratic nation bring peace and freedom to the less civilised nation? If so, fu** democracy. Aus would do better without a military or at least be like new zealand, i.e. be smart, be aware of the current state of world affairs and not act against the best interest of the nation.

Of course, aussie politicans thinks dragging the nation into an abyss is in the best interest of the nation. Well then...

Here are a few people you'd love living next door to your Mum.
List of terrorist incidents in Australia - Wikipedia

 

[Schneebly11]

Why are only the foot soliders punished, what about the commanding officers, surely the ben robert smith type can't be doing this on their own...

Despite only having the rank of Corporal or Sergeant, SAS patrol commanders have a lot of power. They’re in command of patrols out in the field, and reported back to officers on base most of the time. They were known to lie and conceal their crimes, coerce new soldiers into committing these crimes and threatening anyone who tried to speak out against them.

So primary command responsibility for ordering the murders rests with the patrol commanders, and in some cases they pulled the trigger themselves. However it does seem that there was quite active talk on the base about what the patrol commanders were ordering at the time, and at least some soldiers attempted to report the crimes up the chain of command.

But senior commanders knew they had to achieve results, and they couldn’t risk getting the patrol commanders offside, so they buried their heads in the sand. How far up the chain of command this knowledge went is unknown but it had to have gone some way up. Whether or not this is punishable by law is a question for lawyers. But there’s enough evidence to charge around 20 soldiers with direct participation in war crimes, assuming the AFP and Commonwealth has the balls to prosecute. That’s anyone’s guess at the moment.

 

[Rad Roo]

Here are a few people you'd love living next door to your Mum.
List of terrorist incidents in Australia - Wikipedia

lovely

 

[Schneebly11]

Here are a few people you'd love living next door to your Mum.
List of terrorist incidents in Australia - Wikipedia

How did being in Afghanistan prevent or protect against any of those incidents? If anything Western foreign policy allowed the growth of violent Islamism and allowed condition to fester which made a breeding ground for extemism

 

[Kwality]

How did being in Afghanistan prevent or protect against any of those incidents? If anything Western foreign policy allowed the growth of violent Islamism and allowed condition to fester which made a breeding ground for extemism

They went into Afghanistan as Bin Laden et al was in residence.
Staying there was crazy, they (the US & Allies) should have done the job & got out.

 

[Kwality]

They went into Afghanistan as Bin Laden et al was in residence.
Staying there was crazy, they (the US & Allies) should have done the job & got out.
Cruel for the women & children but ...

 

[Boston tiger]

This is atypical of nations with a colonial mentality where in their minds, they are bringing civilisation/peace/democracy to barbaric lands but in reality, they are doing exactly what the taliban, al qaeda are purportly doing. I do not pay tax to fund childkillers. This Ben Robert Smith needs to be given the harshest penalty and stripped of all award, military rank and kicked out of the military. Him and people like him are complete disgrace to the nation. In fact, the entire SAS needs to be disbanded and australia needs to have a deep cleanout out of the pro-american bootlicker.

Australia is a land to getaway from all the troubles of other parts of the world wherever they maybe. Unfortunately, the supposedly representatives of the people pull out all stops to drag aus back into conflict with other nations and some far more powerful than australia. USA today is no longer the post WW2 hegemonic USA that could stamp out all opposition through the might of their economy, technology and moral superiority.

I cannot stop but laugh at stupid aussies politicians wanting to stand up to china. Please, try to stand up to a tsunami, see how you go. In fact, try 3 things, first run at the tsunami (that's what aussie gov is doing), then try standing your ground, lastly try to run along with the tsunami. I wonder which method would give you the greatest chance at survival. That's right folks, Aus can only achieve survival as the best outcome.

We have paid our dues to the USA and so this is the pay off. ...strong support from the most powerful country on earth. Enjoy it.. some have a payed a price for it.

 

[Gough]

They went into Afghanistan as Bin Laden et al was in residence.
Staying there was crazy, they (the US & Allies) should have done the job & got out.

They couldn't do the job in twenty years, we lost, the Taliban will be back. Something that any passing glance at history would have suggested would happen. If we'd really wanted to nail the WTC bombers the Saudis would have been targeted.

 

[Malifice]

Hmmm, kicking unarmed elderly men off a cliff, slitting throats of little boys, raping girls/women, this is a conduct of a democratic nation bring peace and freedom to the less civilised nation?

There were no allegations of rape, and it wasnt the nation doing the crimes.

It was a few individuals, who are being prosecuted.

We're not an undemocratic bunch of human rights violators like China.

 

[Malifice]

I cannot stop but laugh at stupid aussies politicians wanting to stand up to china.

Take it elsewhere tool.

 

[Kwality]

lovely

Do you want more?

the best interest of the nation.

At some point hard decisions have to be made.

 

[Christopher Buttersnip]

Take it elsewhere tool.

Wrong thread. However, the poster has a point though. In world power terms we are minnows.

 

[Schneebly11]

They went into Afghanistan as Bin Laden et al was in residence.
Staying there was crazy, they (the US & Allies) should have done the job & got out.

Bin Laden left Afghanistan in December 2001. The US intelligence agencies knew this. Al Qaeda bases and armed personnel in Afghanistan were wiped out at Tora Bora in December 2001. Most of their senior leaders were subsequently captured in other countries.

So why were Australian Special Forces shooting captured civilians in the head and slitting the throats of kids as late as 2013?
It’s been known for a long time that the Taliban can’t be fully eradicated and negotiations have been ongoing with the them since 2007. So it really hasn’t been about wiping out the Taliban either.

Opium poppies? Lithium? Pipelines? The nation borders China? Lots of reasons for a western presence in Afghanistan.....

 

[Gough]

Bin Laden left Afghanistan in December 2001. The US intelligence agencies knew this. Al Qaeda bases and armed personnel in Afghanistan were wiped out at Tora Bora in December 2001. Most of their senior leaders were subsequently captured in other countries.

So why were Australian Special Forces shooting captured civilians in the head and slitting the throats of kids as late as 2013?
It’s been known for a long time that the Taliban can’t be fully eradicated and negotiations have been ongoing with the them since 2007. So it really hasn’t been about wiping out the Taliban either.

Opium poppies? Lithium? Pipelines? The nation borders China? Lots of reasons for a western presence in Afghanistan.....

The war on drugs was forgotten when it came to Afghanistan.

 

[Kwality]

Bin Laden left Afghanistan in December 2001. The US intelligence agencies knew this. Al Qaeda bases and armed personnel in Afghanistan were wiped out at Tora Bora in December 2001. Most of their senior leaders were subsequently captured in other countries.

So why were Australian Special Forces shooting captured civilians in the head and slitting the throats of kids as late as 2013?
It’s been known for a long time that the Taliban can’t be fully eradicated and negotiations have been ongoing with the them since 2007. So it really hasn’t been about wiping out the Taliban either.

Opium poppies? Lithium? Pipelines? The nation borders China? Lots of reasons for a western presence in Afghanistan.....

You are correct & I agree. I did say they should have obliterated Bin Laden & Co & got out, they didnt take out Bin Laden but that is a different story.
Bin Laden was the reason the Allies went to Afghanistan.

 

[jerry springer]

Why are only the foot soliders punished, what about the commanding officers, surely the ben robert smith type can't be doing this on their own...

The days of a captain "going down with the ship" are long gone, it just never happens these days (rightly or wrongly)

you **** up,you individually get the boot (or it gets covered up)

 

[Malifice]

Wrong thread. However, the poster has a point though. In world power terms we are minnows.

13th largest military expenditure, and some pretty powerful allies.

Not sure you would call that 'minnows'. Not a great power to be sure, but not exactly defenseless.

 

[Schneebly11]

Bin Laden was the reason the Allies went to Afghanistan.

I don’t think the Bush administration initially had plans for Afghanistan, it wasn’t on the radar of Project for a New American Century nor was it one of the “7 countries in 5 years” named by Wesley Clark.

But he US public needed revenge against the target that had hit them first, soBush had to bomb Afghanistan before anywhere else (even though it later came out figures like Rumsfeld pushed for attacking Iraq first).

I would say that some time later the US realised long term Afghanistan could serve a purpose for US Imperial goals. Therefore more troops and the starting of the SOTG rotations in 2006

 

[Power Raid]

Pusey has competition in the most hated stakes

 

[Kwality]

I don’t think the Bush administration initially had plans for Afghanistan, it wasn’t on the radar of Project for a New American Century nor was it one of the “7 countries in 5 years” named by Wesley Clark.

But he US public needed revenge against the target that had hit them first, soBush had to bomb Afghanistan before anywhere else (even though it later came out figures like Rumsfeld pushed for attacking Iraq first).

I would say that some time later the US realised long term Afghanistan could serve a purpose for US Imperial goals. Therefore more troops and the starting of the SOTG rotations in 2006

I've given up trying to follow why the US do many things & am not familiar with your references.

 

[Kwality]

There were no allegations of rape, and it wasnt the nation doing the crimes.

It was a few individuals, who are being prosecuted.

We're not an undemocratic bunch of human rights violators like China.

The OP made the rape allegation up, just a bit of mayo .... sick one that OP.

 

[Pie eyed]

Pretty sure that's not really a thing in Australia

Veterans are entitled to some money from the DVA to assist with the funeral, but they only know if the family fills out the paperwork... I think the RSL offers flags and poppies and stuff for the funeral, but again you have to fill out the paperwork to get it

I've been to a few funerals where you wouldn't know the deceased was a vet, but in most cases they probably would have wanted it that way... they lived a decent life after getting out and I never got the sense that their military years were a huge part of their identity

My stepfather passed away from natural causes just before Christmas. He joined out of school, served for 30 years and did 3 tours of Vietnam.
The RSL are sending two reps, one to salute him and one to play the last post at his memorial service , when his ashes are interred with his parents and brother. The RSL supplied dedicated "assistant" to walk my mother through the entire process of getting the death certificates, doing any and all service related paperwork, any and all DVA related paperwork, her receiving his pension, changing her over to the DVA Gold Card etc.
They did all of this gratis.
Not even an inkling of thanks being required.
I was actually impressed.
AS far as I know they were informed by DVA.
I know my family did not inform them.

 

[Power Raid]

I don’t think the Bush administration initially had plans for Afghanistan, it wasn’t on the radar of Project for a New American Century nor was it one of the “7 countries in 5 years” named by Wesley Clark.

But he US public needed revenge against the target that had hit them first, soBush had to bomb Afghanistan before anywhere else (even though it later came out figures like Rumsfeld pushed for attacking Iraq first).

I would say that some time later the US realised long term Afghanistan could serve a purpose for US Imperial goals. Therefore more troops and the starting of the SOTG rotations in 2006

copper for the electrical revolution (renewables and EVs)

second largest copper reserves globally but currently undefined, so most don't think of how rich and strategic Afgan is along with Iran and Pakistan

 

[Pie eyed]

copper for the electrical revolution (renewables and EVs)

second largest copper reserves globally but currently undefined, so most don't think of how rich and strategic Afgan is along with Iran and Pakistan

Forgive me if I do not for an instant believe that a Bush lead US or the Howard lead Australians gave a rats raw arse about copper.
Both were and still are personally and politically so firmly anchored in fossil fuel investment I doubt they knew what copper is or could be used for.

 

[Kwality]

Forgive me if I do not for an instant believe that a Bush lead US or the Howard lead Australians gave a rats raw arse about copper.
Both were and still are personally and politically so firmly anchored in fossil fuel investment I doubt they knew what copper is or could be used for.

add a drop of 9/11 .....

https://www.newsweek.com/how-many-people-died-911-thousands-perishing

...
11/9/2020 · Today marks 19 years since the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. The attacks took the lives of 2,974 people, the deadliest assault on American soil.

Nah, fossil fools (sic).