Watson and Bombers have a 'fighting chance'

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I wouldn't put too much stock into the arguments raised in the article. First he starts by saying the consent form doest prove anything. I think most reasonable people would assume a signed named on a consent form would be enough to satisfy the balance of probabilities as to the use or attempted use of a banned substance.

He then moves onto the status of AOD and uses the ACC report as an example of the lack of clarity surrounding it. How a report in Feb 13 can be used as justification for use in Summer 11-12... I don't know. This is brought up over the course of a couple paragraphs, seemingly giving the ACC some sort of authority in the absence of WADA making mention of their commentary on the status of AOD under s2.

The only interesting, and somewhat new bit of info is the last para about the specified substances. This does seem to provide a pathway, at least in regards to AOD use, to players not missing games.

It appears the real work the lawyers are doin is to keep this away from the anti doping tribunal. WADA can appeal those decisions. But say the investigation results in no doping rule violation notices being issued? Can WADA appeal that?

For Essendon this needs to be paramount because the longer it stays out of the anti doping tribunal, nothing can really happen, especially given how far down the process they are now. For ASADA/AFL/WADA to make any comment (positive or negative) could possibly prejudice the players right to the presumption of innocence. Once it gets there though, the playing field changes because the lawyers for Essendon are kind of hamstrung in what they can do. My understanding is that any questions of fact are to be dealt with the by doping tribunal, and then if appealed at CAS. The Aus/Vic law courts couldn't really get involved as the players have collectively bargained to follow that process and would need to demonstrate a reason why they should not have to follow what they signed up to, and it generally won't cut it if your reason is to avoid punishment
 

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Essendon supporters like to focus on AOD because there is an element of doubt in regards to it's status in Australia. WADA seem in no doubt though. It also (in their minds) doesn't require the use of the incredibly flimsy rogue scientist defence. The consent forms & Jobe Watson put paid to that.

However there are lots of other issues they should be even more concerned about.

The Hexarelin invoice for instance.

A professional sporting club purchasing a banned substance, let alone using it, should be grounds for that club to be suspended.

Yeah, yeah I know . . . we're using the rogue scientist defense for that one. :)
 
Certainly does & there's little doubt in my mind that it is the basis for Hirdy's et al ongoing confidence.

Hirdy may be confident. What he has yet to realize it seems is that his reputation and that of his club are in the sewer with the football public and, I suspect, a growing number of Essendon fans.

Sadly for the Watsons, they probably now realize the other cost of what has transpired - the disgust and anger, somewhat unfairly, of many many people who held them and their club in high esteem. I am genuinely sad for them and the families of other players and the many loyal fans who would never have wished their club to go down this path.

Confident they will escape player bans - possibly. But at the cost of hard won reputations and club image - reputations built over years and in the case of the Watsons, generations. Tell me - was the program worth it?
 
One more thing to throw into the equation.

The AFL directive to all players before each season is that a player must ask their club doctor should they have any concerns over any substances.

In fact, the lovely Caro makes mention of it in this article.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/delu...0625-2ous7.html

At the start of every AFL season, the league's medical officers visit every club. Part of their address includes a series of multiple choice questions including one concerning the appropriate response to a questionable substance. The correct answer is that the player must raise any concerns to the club doctor.

In fact the instruction, "Ask the club doctor", is aired repeatedly during the instructional video shown by the medical officers. This is damning for Reid even if he believes ASADA misinformed him. Where sacred cows are confirmed at Windy Hill, Reid sits not far below Hird and yet he too now stands accused of failing his players.

Whether the fact the players followed the AFL's medical instructions to the letter can save them remains to be seen, but it should not save Essendon from a sanction significantly more serious than a heavy fine.


So, that leads to the million dollar question. How can the AFL impose penalties on players when the players are following the AFL's own guidelines ?????:confused:

Surely, any independent lawyer representing the players would have a field day with that one.
 
Do you honestly not think the reason this is taking so long is because all this is already being argued.

The players may end up getting reduced /Suspended sentences which I have no issue with but the club is screwed, they will not being playing finals this year
A friend of mine copped an audit/investigation of his company's tax affairs covering two financial years. The ATO took over two years to send him an audit finalization letter. I can see parallels with why an ASADA investigation may take a long time.
 
Hirdy may be confident. What he has yet to realize it seems is that his reputation and that of his club are in the sewer with the football public and, I suspect, a growing number of Essendon fans.

Sadly for the Watsons, they probably now realize the other cost of what has transpired - the disgust and anger, somewhat unfairly, of many many people who held them and their club in high esteem. I am genuinely sad for them and the families of other players and the many loyal fans who would never have wished their club to go down this path.

Confident they will escape player bans - possibly. But at the cost of hard won reputations and club image - reputations built over years and in the case of the Watsons, generations. Tell me - was the program worth it?
It takes a long time to build a reputation.

But it takes a fraction of that time to have it seriously damaged. Or even ruined.
 

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A friend of mine copped an audit/investigation of his company's tax affairs covering two financial years. The ATO took over two years to send him an audit finalization letter. I can see parallels with why an ASADA investigation may take a long time.


Good analogy.

For some strange reason, people put the WADA code on some sort of almighty, legal pedestal, above every Australian legal institution - I just don't understand why.

In truth, the WADA code, in terms of importance in the Australian legal framework, sits somewhere around the level of local council garbage disposal by-laws, and even then, I'd argue the council by-laws are far, far more important.

The taxman gets it wrong about his own legislation every single day of the year (very important and far reaching legislation too, I might add) - and yet we are meant to believe that just because Fahey utters a few incoherent sentences, that Australians are meant to accept that as gospel, with no right of legal reply.

Why?
 
yes. Anything that disputes your perception is either an unprofessional bombers supporter or whoring for work.
How about you address his points and not play the man?

:rolleyes:
 
So can someone tell me by what mechanism they think this would end up in the courts where people like this lawyer would put these arguments?
 
So can someone tell me by what mechanism they think this would end up in the courts where people like this lawyer would put these arguments?

My assumption, as many would be Essendon seeking to overturn any bans from WADA/ASADA.
 
um, that was addressing his post?
You addressed none of his points. I'd be interested to see you do so instead of playing the man.

I am only asking you to do what you asked of me. A perfectly reasonable request.

Many thanks.
 
So can someone tell me by what mechanism they think this would end up in the courts where people like this lawyer would put these arguments?


Well, let's put it another way - on what basis would anyone think that WADA has powers to affect the livelihood of Australians, to earn their income entirely inside Australia, with no right for legal redress within the Australian legal system in cases of an unjust decision?

Does WADA sit above our Parliament and legal system?

I'm honestly surprised anyone would believe that.

In fact, I'm even more surprised that some posters actually wish it.
 
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