Past Wayde Mills (2006-2008)

[Grimreepah]

Re: Wayde Mills

End of Season Player Review

Wayde Mills started the year by having a disappointing NAB Cup. Playing as a key defender he seemed to lack the speed to be able to get to the contest. Being so raw, it was thought a key defensive post was his only real position, but in round 2 Leigh decided to give him a different role – as a defensive forward on the opposition’s loose man in defence. It worked and he was able to keep Goddard out of the game. He failed to have the same impact in round 3 (although he did run with Goodes for the first quarter) and was subsequently dropped, but he had shown that he could contribute in different ways. In round 9 he got another opportunity at centre half back, was easily outbodied by Travis Cloke, and was subsequently dropped again.

After the Lions infamous midseason slump, Leigh said ‘bugger this’ and decided to throw caution to the wind. Mills was recalled and along with Copeland (another dour defender) became part of a revamped, blue collar, hard working forward line. Mills was playing more of a centre half forward role this time around. He led strongly, and he showed that he had good hands, and to circumvent his renowned poor kicking he would dish off at every opportunity.

While the impact of the re-jigged forward line wore off a little as opposition teams cottoned on to the predictability of it, it was still very successful. Even though Mills didn’t get much of the ball it seemed that with him there the forward line was able to function a lot better. Indeed in the 10 games Mills played up forward we averaged 103 points a game (Brown - 5.4 goals a game), and in the 12 games without him there we averaged 79 points a game (Brown - 1.9 goals a game).

But while we may have learnt a lot more about Millsy this year, the future for him is still uncertain. Is getting 5 or 10 handballs a game enough to warrant keeping him in the forward line? Can our classy defenders cover for both Merrett and Mills in the backline? Unfortunately his kicking does not seem to have improved so there must still be questions on whether he will make it. I expect 2008 will be another year of experimentation and we will know a lot more about him in another 12 months.

 

[Grimreepah]

Re: Wayde Mills

Mills - Definately a defender and I expect him to move back there this season. Roe, Mills and Merrit has the makings of a solid backline. Just need the tough small/mid sized guys in there to complement them.

I don't get how people think Mills is "definitely a defender". He did his best work acting as a link man up forward. He took plenty of contested grabs just outside the 50 and dished it off. His disposal means he will never act as a traditional goal-kicking CHF, but his worth to the team is much greater when he has the luxury of going for his grabs. I would much rather see Power or Black getting a free disposal running off Mills' shoulder, than having them trying to win the ball from a contest in the same area.

For me, Mills will never hurt teams on the scoreboard playing as a forward. I don't know if any team can afford the luxury of playing forwards who don't kick goals. If you compare him to other lead up players, most successful teams have a midsized player performing that role who push a little further up field and then make tracks back towards the goal line. Otherwise, they are a tall player who can regularly score goals from the 50 m arc.

Mills is the type of player who will be able to out position opposition forwards, take a mark, and give the ball off to the runners to begin a counter attack. He should be able to develop his own running game and provide options comming out of the backline too.

Of course, that is all speculation. I guess time will tell.

Wayde is 3 years younger than Joel MacDonald. In my opinion he is where Joel was 3 years ago, in so far as questionable ability. Remember how Jmac returned from injury to now arguably be in our best 22.

I am happy to allow Alice a couple more years to unearth his potential. Even now, many people are suggesting he is our number one replacement should Merrett be omitted due to injury.

For years Brisbane has experimented with backs/forwards rotating to opposite roles for short periods, Bradshaw, Brennan, Leppa, Johnson, Patfull even I think Lynchy on Lloyd at one stage?

Also enjoy your thoughts Brishawk… yes, I am very much looking forward to what the future holds for Wayde Mills, may not directly hurt the opposition on the scoreboard but could well become one hell of a feeder of goal assists.

From either end.

Brad Miller had an ordinary year, but before that was quite effective as a non-goal-kicking CHF, and he's the closest playing model of how Millsy played last year. Hard running, centered on the center circle, providing a vigorous, very visual target for anyone looking upfield in the back 50.

It's also worth noting that Brown played CHF in three premierships without breaking 40 goals -- in 2003 he only kicked 14. Obviously he contributed plenty, but allowed Lynch, Bradshaw, Power and McRae plenty of space to work in. Millsy is capable of playing a similar role. If Brown, Bradshaw, Clark, Brennan Hooper, McGrath, etc are converting, he won't necessarily have to kick a score to be successful.

However the kicking is a weakness and if he can't turn it from a weakness into at least a non-issue, sooner or later someone -- perhaps Tyler, Henderson, Collier, Garner or Clouston -- will supersede him.

And it has to be remembered that our ball movement was pathetic for a long period of time last year. We couldn't effectively move the ball from defence into attack because no-one was presenting up the ground. When we eventually did get it towards our attacking 50, Browny would have 3 on him and the opposition could flood back and clear easily.

When Mills came into the team we suddenly had someone to kick it to. He straightened us up tremendously. His kicking is average, but he does take a very good grab and gives it off to one of our mids running past. If he is going to play that role again next year he either needs to work very hard on his kicking, or learn when and when not to give it off (particularly if the receiving player is about to run into a wall).

Interesting comments. I think people see Mills as dour (which is fair enough) and because of that see him as a defender (which is often the case). But the reality is he has served the club a lot better as a forward up to this point.

I like the Brown comparison. They are polar opposites in terms of class, but Mills does have that ability to provide a target and straighten the side up. I think this role tends to be fairly under valued because supporters think they aren't kicking enough goals. But it is more about helping others and getting the forward line functional. Brown did that and Mills does that too.

Still the skill level is a major concern, and when you have a forward who you don't want to have the ball in his hands, it's not an ideal situation.

It's very hard to predict Mills' future. He could play virtually any position but has weaknesses in all of them. He is almost a pivotal player but he's not far from the scrap heap either. The term 'could be anything' is probably appropriate for Wayde.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Re: Wayde Mills

It's very hard to predict Mills' future. He could play virtually any position but has weaknesses in all of them. He is almost a pivotal player but he's not far from the scrap heap either. The term 'could be anything' is probably appropriate for Wayde.

I remember when he debuted in the 2005 NAB cup, everyone was shocked by his kicking action. 2 years down the line, his kicking is still a significant concern.

He was drafted primarily for his phenomenal athletic ability. He seems a likable bloke who really trains hard and wants to get the best out of himself. This makes him worth persisting with for now. His skills need alot of attention.

 

[POBT]

Re: Wayde Mills

When you have a superstar in the Carey position (ie half way between a true FF and a true CHF) as we do, then you don't need a superstar CHF. Your gameplan is not structured around your centre half forward kicking goals. In fact, if he is playing his role well, the CHF should have very few opportunities to kick goals. If he is hanging around the 50 arc, then it has many implications. It means that there is another defender to plug holes inside 50. It limits the ability of the deeper forwards to lead long. It also means your contest is going to be 50-60 metres from goal which is a whole lot less dangerous than 30-40m out. The structure requires him to clear out, therefore his ability to hurt the opposition on the scoreboard is almost a non-issue.

Mills doesn't need to be able to kick goals to play a vital role. However, it would be advantageous if he was able to wheel around and hit a forward target on the chest. If he could develop that aspect of his game, then he is our answer at CHF.

 

[Grimreepah]

Re: Wayde Mills

The problem with Mills' kicking is not so much a lack of accuracy, but more that it is very telegraphed. We saw opposition defenders were able to pick him off quite easily on the few occaisons he did try to deliver inside 50. Also it takes him a long time to complete his action, so he finds it difficult to move the ball on quickly. He also tends to kick to the man instead out in front where the man will be when the ball gets there.

 

[Quigley]

Re: Wayde Mills

The one thing which hasn't been mentioned as being a huge factor in his success at half forward is his run down and tackle. His fantastic endurance allows him to outwork his opponent and his combination with Hooper and Brennan was great defensively. He makes the opposition backs work both ways and tires them out allowing more room for Brown to work in because of both this and the marking target that he presents.

 

[acuguy]

Re: Wayde Mills

He will never play forward ahead of a Brown, Bradshaw and a fit Clark, he is valuable because he can pinch hit up forward and provide a tall marking option and as mentioned has good defensive skills. If Mills is going to have a long AFL career he must play back.

 

[xplo]

Re: Wayde Mills

He will never play forward ahead of a Brown, Bradshaw and a fit Clark, he is valuable because he can pinch hit up forward and provide a tall marking option and as mentioned has good defensive skills.

But as POBT said, he's not competing with Brown, Clark and Bradshaw. It's apples and oranges. We don't want those guys getting along way from goal to get their footy, but we need a tall connector who's not going to bring his opponent anywhere near those other guys.

Perhaps the issue is we keep using the label 'Center Half Forward' (CHF) to describe Millsy's job, when perhaps we need to coin a new term to describe it.

Millsy played best last year as a 'Center Center Forward' (CCF).

The new age CCF differs from the trad CHF in that he :

a) Plays from the center circle like a traditional centerman did in the 70's but is built more like Royce Hart than Maurice Rioli.

b) Stays out of both 50M arcs as a rule

c) Provides an easy, constantly mobile target out of the defensive 50

d) Uses his big body to shepherd, block and screen ball-carriers as they bring the ball off halfback and through the square.

e) Scraps very hard against opposition attempts to bring the ball out of our forward line, by either forcing them wide or ideally picking them off through the center corridor. This is traditional CHB-type spoiling and punching, but moved up to middle. So yes, to an extent he is playing a defensive role -- just in a non-traditional way.

You can't underestimate the value in having someone big, fit enough and with the timing to pick off these balls as they come thru. With the opposition streaming forward in waves, an intercept in the guts -- maybe a mark, tap, bump, even a finger, -- is often a killer blow, delivering the ball straight back into an opposition defence with no time to setup and no chance of getting numbers back to help.

If Millsy could do that twice a quarter he'd be killing them, but he doesn't even have to do that to win his position. If he can cover and control the corridor enough to spook the opposition out of kicking into it -- forcing them wider to the wings -- we win anyway. Their forward entries take 12secs rather that 5secs, we get extra time to get more numbers back, and they get their forays squeezed to one pocket of the other.

IMHO, if Millsy could play from the circle and simply make the opposition very wary of trying to spot up a player in the middle, he will have done a great deal towards justifying his spot.

 

[BigCat2]

Re: Wayde Mills

Geez xplo, you could make any player sound like a richman's Ablett Senior.

You do make good points, and for those who insist on Mills only being able to play AFL as a big defender, well I think they're half right. Mills does have a lot of attributes required to play a defensive role, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll play as a defender (as in the defensive half of the ground). I thought round 2 where he played as a tagging forward was good insight into the the role he could play consistently.

A big man with excellent endurance who works hard both ways is very valuable indeed. He can drift towards CHB and block up opposition forwards' space, and then runs hard to the middle of the ground up towards CHF to present a marking option for our players coming out of defence.

 

[xplo]

Re: Wayde Mills

I guess I'm not trying to talk him up. He has some remarkable strengths and some remarkable weaknesses.

I'm more trying to make the point that he comes off worst if you try to jam him into the traditional/classic football structure -- the 100+ year old idea of big stay-at-home spine players and all the running done by ruckrovers, rovers and flankers and wingers. That's way out of date now, and while you might be able to squeeze Browny into something like the traditional FF, I reckon Millsy best role isn't listed in the classic positional setups.

 

[POBT]

Re: Wayde Mills

He will never play forward ahead of a Brown, Bradshaw and a fit Clark, he is valuable because he can pinch hit up forward and provide a tall marking option and as mentioned has good defensive skills. If Mills is going to have a long AFL career he must play back.

But as POBT said, he's not competing with Brown, Clark and Bradshaw. It's apples and oranges. We don't want those guys getting along way from goal to get their footy, but we need a tall connector who's not going to bring his opponent anywhere near those other guys.

I guess I agree with acuguy to the extent that we don't really know how Clark is going to develop as a forward. Right now, he seems to be a tall forward pocket type, almost akin to a resting ruckman but with greater mobility and ability with the ball on deck. However, the development of his running game over time may mean that he can play further forward and perhaps even fill, to an extent, that workhorse CHF role. If he does, then there is no room for Mills up forward (although Clark's field kicking is not much better than Alice's). But if Clark remains an inside 50 forward, then we simply need someone as the conduit between 50s. Mills looks best positioned to fill that role.

 

[BigCat2]

Re: Wayde Mills

I guess I agree with acuguy to the extent that we don't really know how Clark is going to develop as a forward. Right now, he seems to be a tall forward pocket type, almost akin to a resting ruckman but with greater mobility and ability with the ball on deck. However, the development of his running game over time may mean that he can play further forward and perhaps even fill, to an extent, that workhorse CHF role. If he does, then there is no room for Mills up forward (although Clark's field kicking is not much better than Alice's). But if Clark remains an inside 50 forward, then we simply need someone as the conduit between 50s. Mills looks best positioned to fill that role.

Alice will want to make that his spot his own pretty soon. Tyler and Henderson sound like they'll make a good fist of CHF if given the chance.

Even when Clark improves his fitness, I still see him more as a forward 50 player. One reason is that Bradshaw won't be around forever, so there'll be a vacancy in the foreseeable future. Secondly Mitch's strengths are his height, athleticism and superb marking which makes him such a dangerous player. I'd want the majority of his marks to be taken within goal scoring distance.

 

[xplo]

Re: Wayde Mills

Link

Wayde Mills capitalised with three goals in the opening term as the Lions opened a four-goal lead.

Scores:

Suncoast: 5.7, 9.8, 9.13, 12.13 (85)
Mt Gravatt: 2.2, 6.4, 9.7, 11.11 (77)

Goals, Suncoast: W Mills 4, L Henderson, P Hanley, S Harding, A Proud, J Sherman, E Reading, J Polkinghorne, L Thornton. Mt Gravatt: B Cleary 3, R Lake 3, G Tarrant 2, T Van Rooyen 2, B Riordan.
Best, Suncoast: J Sherman, A Proud, P Hanley, W Mills, S Harding, M Austin. Mt Gravatt: R Lake, S Carins, A Tarrant, R Lovitt, R Bail, N Gilliland.

Did anyone see this game? After snagging 4 it would be interesting to know if there was evidence of work being put into his kicking.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Re: Wayde Mills

Link




Did anyone see this game? After snagging 4 it would be interesting to know if there was evidence of work being put into his kicking.

Nah, he kicked 4.12



Just kidding.

 

[xplo]

Re: Wayde Mills



Kicking 3 in a quarter, he must have been ok, because you'd think he'd have had trouble getting many more shots than that in one quarter. Of course, they may well have been from inside 20M and his 'short game' seems fine.

Last year he just struggled a bit with those gettable 40M goals that most blokes kick 4 out 5 times.

 

[chopperduck]

Re: Wayde Mills

after reading the last few posts it does raise an interesting point of having another bigger target to help link the 50's. as good as browny is, you would like him getting it within goal distance, and right now he is kickin them no problems. last season he totally sorted his kicking out, and kicks plenty of goals from 50 or further, and makes it look easy.

its probably losing those taller players thru our midfield that has hurt a lil here. hard to find a good contest to kick too. mills ain't too bad and may find a role coming from the bench to do this linking role and maybe give some of our small fast guys a breather. dont think he could cement such a role tho. he would have to play down back to achieve this i think

 

[BigCat2]

Re: Wayde Mills

I wonder if we can play Wayde as a centreman, so he can throw his weight around to win the contested ball (harder to tackle a 195cm bloke) and to offer a marking target coming out of defence.

Browny in parts of 2005 was played in the midfield and racked up clearances with easy. Obviously we don't want him to do that any more so he doesn't hurt himself, but I wonder if Mills can play a similar sort of role. A clearance machine doesn't necessarily have to have a good kick.

If he could do that then he'll be pretty valuable. Can be played in midfield, a forward marking target or a key defender.

 

[xplo]

Re: Wayde Mills

I wonder if we can play Wayde as a centreman, so he can throw his weight around to win the contested ball (harder to tackle a 195cm bloke) and to offer a marking target coming out of defence.

Browny in parts of 2005 was played in the midfield and racked up clearances with easy. Obviously we don't want him to do that any more so he doesn't hurt himself, but I wonder if Mills can play a similar sort of role. A clearance machine doesn't necessarily have to have a good kick.

If he could do that then he'll be pretty valuable. Can be played in midfield, a forward marking target or a key defender.

If I remember rightly, Browny went in there again on Saturday night to try to get us going -- late first or early second quarter -- with immediate results.

Would be interesting to see the Millsy get a bit of a go at that type of role. Not certain he's got the fast snapping synapses to pull it off, but it would be nice to find out.

Funnily enough, as more and more lightweight speed demons get injected into the packs, the niche for a select few untacklable, big-bodied but fit monsters like Browny and Millsy might expand. Jobe Watson is a good example of a guy who isn't fast but has seemed to thrive as the teams has got quicker around him. He's hard to bring down before he gets it off.

 

[blynd_freddie]

Re: Wayde Mills

As is regularly mentioned a kid who come up to QLD, lived in a caravan, just to play footy.
I think he will be a perfect example of a player who doesn’t have the gifted ability of say an Ablett senior but will do twice the learning with the desire and belief that he can reach that level. The threat of say a Tyler or a Henderson fighting for a similar position may even speed up and even expand his own learning expectations.

Go for it Wayde!

 

[Grimreepah]

Re: Wayde Mills

Charman will probably force Mills out.

Shame though, really starting to like the cut of Millsy's jib.

Yep. Mills comes back in and our forward line starts to click and we kick a big score. Am I noticing a pattern here?

 

[Hollow Knight]

Re: Wayde Mills

Yep. Mills comes back in and our forward line starts to click and we kick a big score. Am I noticing a pattern here?

Love his marking presence 60 metres out.

He isn't the most skilled player out there, but straightens us up and makes our spine seem really deadly.

 

[POBT]

Re: Wayde Mills

Love his marking presence 60 metres out.

He isn't the most skilled player out there, but straightens us up and makes our spine seem really deadly.

He does that but I think the other benefit is that he spreads the defence a bit. You can't really let him run between chf and chb unmarked because he then gives an easy kick option for the rebounding defenders. And because he doesn't really venture a lot inside 50, his opponent can't really peel off him and double back on Brown or Bradshaw.

I don't know if he's the perfect answer for that lead up role but he's probably our best option right now until Hendo gets the smarts or Clark gets the engine.

 

[Grimreepah]

Re: Wayde Mills

Since Mills came into the side as a forward last year, in the games he has played we have won 6.5 of 8 games and averaged 110 points. In the games he has missed we have won 1 of 4 games and averaged 75 points.

I know it's a small sample size but it's a huge discrepancy, and when you factor in that our forward line struggled before Mills came in as a forward, it starts to look like a trend.

He doesn't do much with the ball (although I was happy with his reverse torp goal from the pocket), but he must do a lot of team running to free up his mates. Or maybe he is one hell of a good luck charm. Either way I'd like him to be kept in the team.

 

[xplo]

Re: Wayde Mills

IT's funny that his lack of goal kicking confidence actually helps us a little in that he almost builds his game around not getting close enough to have a shot on goal -- meaning he works super hard up the ground but keeps his own man miles clear of Bradshaw and Brown.

 

[ZoBlitz]

Re: Wayde Mills

I think he does improve our structure up forward and if he could improve his kicking he'd be a definite danger.

I'd almost keep him in the team... not sure who I'd drop when Charman came back though.