We need to talk about Oscar

[Hollow Knight]

He’s the sort of guy you just want to see make it so badly, but there have been quite a few red flag performances this year where he just gets worked over by opponents to the point of ever-increasing non-competitiveness as the game goes on. He just had to try and semi-neutralise Nank tonight when the game was at its most precarious stage and we didn’t get that. He needs help.

We have invested a lot in him, and obviously we keep persisting but we can’t keep putting all our eggs in that one basket in 2022 and beyond. It literally could be a key issue in whether we blow our premiership window or not.

Doesn’t seem like it is shaping up as a good off-season on the ruck market either.

What do we do?

Edit: Seems to be people replying without understanding the context of the thread. The point is that our current ruck strategy isn’t doing him any favours and that playing him as an almost full time ruck is not working for us, and is cooking him.

 

[briztoon]

You’re treading on somewhat sacrilegious ground for quite a few members here.

In my opinion things go a bit deeper than just Oscar.

Some of our stars need a good talking to, and possibly the coach.

 

[jackess]

Tapwork has always been subpar. Wins clearances but they’re not quality. Can take a big grab but not consistently.

An inform midfield usually covers for having an average ruckman but not tonight.

 

[Hollow Knight]

You’re treading on somewhat sacrilegious ground for quite a few members here.

In my opinion things go a bit deeper than just Oscar.

Some of our stars need a good talking to, and possibly the coach.

I have a number 46 McInerney jumper so o have skin in this game too. But it’s a concern regardless of emotional attachments.

Obviously the ruck is just one of several issues but we have other threads for whole-team analysis.

Nank’s dominance was decisive tonight and our ruck strategy in 2022 and beyond is something to be looked at.

There is zero selection pressure for the spot of a player who probably isn’t top 20 in the league for his position. Unhealthy.

That’s not to suggest Oscar requires selection pressure because he is as honest as the day as long, but it is an red flag on our list banance.

 

[PattyKwasagun]

You’re treading on somewhat sacrilegious ground for quite a few members here.

In my opinion things go a bit deeper than just Oscar.

Some of our stars need a good talking to, and possibly the coach.

Very odd call. You think the coach needs a talking to? What would you say?

As for the thread, Oscar’s season is certainly developing a worrying trend to it, nobody could deny that. I’m still not too worried about where we (or he) sits just yet though. Every team and player goes through form slumps and peaks over the course of a season. Will save my judgement for a few more weeks.

 

[Dalions]

I thought he was actually pretty good in the first half but fell away in the second, along with the team.

 

[ZoBlitz]

I'd like to see him after a solid preseason next year before making any big judgements as I think his leg injury affected a few of his performances in the middle of the year. Tonight though he just seemed to struggle.

 

[MSB ROYS]

Nankervis crossed the line as the ball went into the air, made body contact and that was it. He needs to be able counter this tactic.

 

[PTizzle]

I think Oscar has always been a fairly middling ruck with some good assets (strong contested marking being one). It's one of our weaknesses but it's hard to see an easy fix - it wouldn't be worth what we'd have to pay for a star and a promising younger ruck may not develop in time. The best we can hope for is to delist Archie (another very likeable player who I hoped would make it) and get a second-stringer from another club to put some real pressure on his spot. I would've loved a Ben Hudson

Ben Hudson

Age

45

Ht

199cm

Wt

106kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

9.0

5star

CL

4.1

5star

HO

17.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

6.4

2star

K

2.6

1star

HB

3.8

3star

HO

9.8

5star

type tonight to just grind an experienced opposition ruck down a bit.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

He is a major issue. Constantly watching the other ruckman, a step behind. Lost the clunk. Is this fatigue ? I feel we need the 2 ruck style. As much as a lot don't rate Archie on here, we need him for structure. Nearly every week the opposition ruckman is best on ground.

 

[briztoon]

I have a number 46 McInerney jumper so o have skin in this game too. But it’s a concern regardless of emotional attachments.

Obviously the ruck is just one of several issues but we have other threads for whole-team analysis.

Nank’s dominance was decisive tonight and our ruck strategy in 2022 and beyond is something to be looked at.

There is zero selection pressure for the spot of a player who probably isn’t top 20 in the league for his position. Unhealthy.

That’s not to suggest Oscar requires selection pressure because he is as honest as the day as long, but it is an red flag on our list banance.

I’ve said from the beginning that Oscar isn’t a best 22 ruck.

He’s a reserve ruck until someone younger overtakes him.

And I’ve been saying for the last 3 years we need to draft a young ruck to develop.

And I keep being told it’s easy to go out and trade in a young ruck looking to step up to be a starting ruck. … Still waiting.

 

[Shaq attack]

Reality is he is our version of Cox but is playing as primary Ruck. He needs another genuine ruck to help him coz he doesn’t have the tank to run out a full game. Nank is an average ruckman himself and Oscar got monstored.

 

[JasRulz63]

I think the issue is that if he's not marking the ball (like tonight), then he's below average in the ruck and below average at ground level.

Even when he almost neutralises the opposition ruck in the air, he often then gets beaten at ground level.

I think the truth is he's a below average ruckman, and given his age and currently physical tools, that likely remains the case.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

I think the issue is that if he's not marking the ball (like tonight), then he's below average in the ruck and below average at ground level.

Even when he almost neutralises the opposition ruck in the air, he often then gets beaten at ground level.

I think the truth is he's a below average ruckman, and given his age and currently physical tools, that likely remains the case.

Only player not to take a mark Tonight bar McIntosh

 

[Mazza44]

6 free kicks tonight against him hurt our chances massively. We can't afford to give away easy clearances, especially with our now undermanned defence.

 

[briztoon]

Very odd call. You think the coach needs a talking to? What would you say?

As for the thread, Oscar’s season is certainly developing a worrying trend to it, nobody could deny that. I’m still not too worried about where we (or he) sits just yet though. Every team and player goes through form slumps and peaks over the course of a season. Will save my judgement for a few more weeks.

Fagan’s steadfastness to stick by Birchall is a concern. I believe I understand why he won’t drop Birchall, but it’s not working.

Our inability to adapt in game. Our lack of a second strategy.

Fagan’s reluctance over the last two years to “rest” a player when he’s tired, or out of form, or carrying a niggling injury, especially when we’ve had a relatively healthy list, and could afford to blood a youngster or two during the season.


As for Oscar, he never has been, and never will be a first choice ruck.

 

[pulpdriver]

He’s the sort of guy you just want to see make it so badly, but there have been quite a few red flag performances this year where he just gets worked over by opponents to the point of ever-increasing non-competitiveness as the game goes on. He just had to try and semi-neutralise Nank tonight when the game was at its most precarious stage and we didn’t get that.

We have invested a lot in him, and obviously we keep persisting but we can’t keep putting all our eggs in that one basket in 2022 and beyond. It literally could be a key issue in whether we blow our premiership window or not.

Doesn’t seem like it is shaping up as a good off-season on the ruck market either.

What do we do?

His form drop has been alarming. I guess I don't expect a lot in the ruck from him and that he'll make it up around the ground. Have seen plenty of premiership teams win it without a decent ruck so it didn't really worry me but it's patently obvious we can't compete as a top team if he offers up performances like tonight regularly. Not really sure what we do if his form drop isn't temporary or injury related. Aside from trading in a mature ruck there are no other options.

 

[iBeng]

We let Stefan go one year too early.

 

[jackess]

We let Stefan go one year too early.

Not sure how he would have helped. He’s cooked.

 

[BRAB]

We let Stefan go one year too early.

Stef has been injured for a while at the Dogs.

The mistake was giving Archie an extension based off a promising preseason.

 

[Nuggo]

Perfect backup Ruckman. If being used as first choice then heat goes to the midfield and not Oscar. He can only do what he can do.

 

[MSB ROYS]

Fagan’s steadfastness to stick by Birchall is a concern. I believe I understand why he won’t drop Birchall, but it’s not working.

Our inability to adapt in game. Our lack of a second strategy.

Fagan’s reluctance over the last two years to “rest” a player when he’s tired, or out of form, or carrying a niggling injury, especially when we’ve had a relatively healthy list, and could afford to blood a youngster or two during the season.


As for Oscar, he never has been, and never will be a first choice ruck.

Agree. Being stubborn is both a strength and weakness of Fagan.

I am frustrated by his lack of bringing fresh players into the team occasionally, especially last year, while he continues to pick his favourites whether they play well or not.

 

[pulpdriver]

Agree. Being stubborn is both a strength and weakness of Fagan.

I am frustrated by his lack of bringing fresh players into the team occasionally, especially last year, while he continues to pick his favourites whether they play well or not.

Hmm I can sort of see the value in consistency. While I have felt we could have utilised some speed or fresh players from the reserves at times Fages and his team have opted for our perceived best 22 week in, week out and it has brought us back to finals with to two top 2 regular season finishes. We haven't had to deal with a run of injuries like this year. We really don't have the depth to cover the injuries and form issues we have. Don't know if any team does.

 

[MSB ROYS]

Hmm I can sort of see the value in consistency. While I have felt we could have utilised some speed or fresh players from the reserves at times Fages and his team have opted for our perceived best 22 week in, week out and it has brought us back to finals with to two top 2 regular season finishes. We haven't had to deal with a run of injuries like this year. We really don't have the depth to cover the injuries and form issues we have. Don't know if any team does.

I can too, but our game style has been cracked by opposition coaches in the last few months. Just keeping on picking the same team every week when there are obvious deficiencies is madness IMO. The non competitiveness in the VFL is not helping either, as well as all of the uncertainties of COVID must be psychological difficult at this time.

 

[pulpdriver]

I can too, but our game style has been cracked by opposition coaches in the last few months. Just keeping on picking the same team every week when there are obvious deficiencies is madness IMO. The non competitiveness in the VFL is not helping either, as well as all of the uncertainties of COVID must be psychological difficult at this time.

I feel we've been hampered a lot by injury. Feels weak to opt to that but it's valid. Our midfield plans would no doubt have featured Neale, Rayner and Berry. None have been able to contribute consistently or at all this year. That impacts significantly on VFL too. It's all compounded by the erratic travel and preparation for the seniors and the lack of senior presence or even games at all for the reserves, I don't at all object that we might need some refreshening be it in personnel or game plan but I'm not really panicking. If we have a fit list to choose from and Oscar's form returns to last year's and he's a middle of the pack ruckman that can take a strong grab up forward then no problem.

Maybe because he's a mid level ruck that's having his first year as number one ruck, along with an ankle injury early in the year, numerous midfield injuries, covid and travel issues along with a massive team form slump then he seems a whole lot worse and he could rebound back?