Strength Weight Training: Anything and Everything II

[tige19]

the why is pretty important...you'll get what you feel is a good workout from just about anything but it doesn't make it "good'

i don't see the point in short changing your wts routine for this when you could probably do the same run after the wts

So we think lifting first, then cardio? I've done that before but literally arms hurt to move lol.. I've also pretty much gone paleo the last few days so energy levels down, in fact Mon-Wed is basically carb free days, trying to implement the 12 week physique program! Google, looks brilliant.

 

[Taylor]

Is protein powder necessary or is it really good marketing by huge guys eating lots of bulk food?

 

[Mofra]

Is protein powder necessary or is it really good marketing by huge guys eating lots of bulk food?

It's convenient and is a highly bio-available source of protein - moreso than many other sources.

It's not necessary as such but is definitely useful for hitting macros, especially if you're using plain unbranded powders without fillers (e.g. high GI carbs or "proprietary blends" in the ingredients list). After a hard gym session I'd struggle to eat solid food for a while which is where shakes are perfect.

 

[BrockBlitz]

Is protein powder necessary or is it really good marketing by huge guys eating lots of bulk food?

Put it this way. The athletes in the South Australian Sports Institute aren't allowed to use any supplements until they have shown a diary of meals and a high class training log for at least a couple months from memory. Even then, they pretty much only use protein power, some vitamins and occasionally when necessary, creatine. So to answer your question, if elite athletes aren't doing all the necessary stuff properly, then its a waste of time. Same can be said for mortals. Mofra makes a good point though, if like some you can't stomach food directly after training then it is a good substitute. Protein within 30 minutes of a session improves how worthwhile the session was dramatically.

 

[Taylor]

It's convenient and is a highly bio-available source of protein - moreso than many other sources.

It's not necessary as such but is definitely useful for hitting macros, especially if you're using plain unbranded powders without fillers (e.g. high GI carbs or "proprietary blends" in the ingredients list). After a hard gym session I'd struggle to eat solid food for a while which is where shakes are perfect.

Thanks for replying

Does your body need an immediate intake of food to get the best results or is the powder lifting the "base load" of protein rolling through your system at any one point? I don't know if that makes sense.

 

[Taylor]

Put it this way. The athletes in the South Australian Sports Institute aren't allowed to use any supplements until they have shown a diary of meals and a high class training log for at least a couple months from memory. Even then, they pretty much only use protein power, some vitamins and occasionally when necessary, creatine. So to answer your question, if elite athletes aren't doing all the necessary stuff properly, then its a waste of time. Same can be said for mortals. Mofra makes a good point though, if like some you can't stomach food directly after training then it is a good substitute. Protein within 30 minutes of a session improves how worthwhile the session was dramatically.

How does it make it more worthwhile? I get that it's like having a stockpile of building blocks for muscle ready to go. Does it get absorbed really fast?

 

[BrockBlitz]

How does it make it more worthwhile? I get that it's like having a stockpile of building blocks for muscle ready to go. Does it get absorbed really fast?

this is an article from T-Nation. It's not the best one, but it explains the basics

http://www.t-nation.com/supplements/what-you-dont-know-about-workout-supplementation

 

[Mofra]

Thanks for replying

Does your body need an immediate intake of food to get the best results or is the powder lifting the "base load" of protein rolling through your system at any one point? I don't know if that makes sense.

It's simply about getting enough easily absorbable, cheap protein into the daily diet - for anyone looking to add weight the commonly accepted benchmark is 1.5-2g per kg of lean body mass per 24 hours. Getting that much via normal diet is doable but much easier if protein powders are used - some prefer to have some protein within a few hours of working out as well for recovery reasons, although the "1 hour feeding window/catabolism" theory has been thoroughly debunked.

Personally I workout in the morning before work then cycle to work so it's much quicker and easier to have a shake after gym-work than it is to cook a full protein rich breakfast. I tend to add a little protein to my PWO drink as well so I'm not completely working out on an empty stomach.

It is as much about convenience as it is about results - I'm sure there are plenty of people who have excellent results without using it (and if you have a shit diet it's fairly pointless anyway).

 

[BrockBlitz]

It's simply about getting enough easily absorbable, cheap protein into the daily diet - for anyone looking to add weight the commonly accepted benchmark is 1.5-2g per kg of lean body mass per 24 hours. Getting that much via normal diet is doable but much easier if protein powders are used - some prefer to have some protein within a few hours of working out as well for recovery reasons, although the "1 hour feeding window/catabolism" theory has been thoroughly debunked.

Personally I workout in the morning before work then cycle to work so it's much quicker and easier to have a shake after gym-work than it is to cook a full protein rich breakfast. I tend to add a little protein to my PWO drink as well so I'm not completely working out on an empty stomach.

It is as much about convenience as it is about results - I'm sure there are plenty of people who have excellent results without using it (and if you have a shit diet it's fairly pointless anyway).

Do you have any links regarding the 30 minutes/1 hour window stuff. I try to stay up to date-ish with this stuff but bodybuilding isn't my calling so I can't admit to being as well read as you.

 

[Mofra]

Do you have any links regarding the 30 minutes/1 hour window stuff. I try to stay up to date-ish with this stuff but bodybuilding isn't my calling so I can't admit to being as well read as you.

I wouldn't describe myself as an expert by any means; you've actually posted an article from one of what I call one of the best sites out there for information.

This article is one I'm referring to: point 4 is classic bro-science (and yes, I've seen the stereotypical guy eating a tin of tuna in the change rooms!)

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online...ition/the_top_10_post_workout_nutrition_myths

 

[TheFreshBanana]

Hmmm okay, so is it normal to be able to squat more than you can deadlift?

Also, been really struggling with my deadlifts, mainly my grip. I go underhand overhand, but mainly I struggle because my right hand gets real sweaty and starts to slip. Should I just persist with it, and my grip strength will just come about?

And looking to start dropping some kg's and improving some cardio. Should I jump straight into just a cardio program? Or try and mix it up?

And if I go straight into a cardio program, if I go back to weights, should I start at where I left off, or deload a bit?

 

[saj_21]

So we think lifting first, then cardio? I've done that before but literally arms hurt to move lol.. I've also pretty much gone paleo the last few days so energy levels down, in fact Mon-Wed is basically carb free days, trying to implement the 12 week physique program! Google, looks brilliant.

Yes weights first especially if you want to prioritize lifting. I know you say you are time poor, but whilst you adjust to Paleo maybe walking is an option over running and as you become fitter and adjust to paleo increase the running. This will help with your sore arms issue too

Is protein powder necessary or is it really good marketing by huge guys eating lots of bulk food?

No necessary just convenient as others have said. You can hit your protein intake with food, however protein shakes are handy when on the run, if you are looking to loose weight and calorie intake adds up or you aren't super hungry pre or post work out.

The whole anabolic window eating 30/60 mins is bro science and you will find a many argument for and against it. Personally it makes sense, your body will be most receptive for nutrients post work out there is no magic time but eating around about 1 hour mark anecdotally has worked for many.

Hmmm okay, so is it normal to be able to squat more than you can deadlift?

Also, been really struggling with my deadlifts, mainly my grip. I go underhand overhand, but mainly I struggle because my right hand gets real sweaty and starts to slip. Should I just persist with it, and my grip strength will just come about?

And looking to start dropping some kg's and improving some cardio. Should I jump straight into just a cardio program? Or try and mix it up?

And if I go straight into a cardio program, if I go back to weights, should I start at where I left off, or deload a bit?

Yes that is a bit contrary most people deadlift is stronger than their squat. Any reason you are using a underhand grip? For me i use a double overhand grip for warm/intermediate sets and then a mixed grip for heavier working sets. Look at using a mixed grip, with your weaker/slipping hand palm up and your stronger hand palm down. Hope it makes sense. Honestly just keep sticking at it and your grip/strength will improve. What i could deadlift 18 months ago for 3-4 reps with straps i can do now 5-6 reps without straps.

In regards to cardio, slowly build up linear progression as you do with weights. Don't do one despite the other, you can do both cardio and weights. Ideally separate the two into individual sessions. Personally running 5km makes you better at running 5km, where as sprints/HIIT and walking can help with fat loss.

 

[Taylor]

I think he does use a mixed grip.

My deadlift is stronger than my squats.

 

[JHF1870]

tried out the curl bar today on strict curls, and there was a massive difference between that and the olympic bar Ï was using. So much easier and felt better on the joints. Anyone else tinkered with a strict curl

 

[JHF1870]

I'm currently in my 2nd week of smolov jr and was wondering after I'm finished, I want to test my 1rm, then do a cycle of board presses. Has anyone actually done board presses and how can I work them into a cycle?

Day 1: work up to say 65%, then hit board presses in stages.
Week (1-3) - 3 board press or there abouts, 5 reps at 100%, up 5% per week to 110%
Week (4-6) - 2 board press 5 reps at ???
week (7-9) - 1 board press 5 reps at ???

I have no idea how much weight I should be doing in relation to my 1rm for each board press, and to save trial and error, does anyone know?

My logic is that you would hit up to say 110% of your 1rm in 3board press. Theres no need to go overboard, just need to hit the max you can lift and a bit mkore.

Or would you do all boards in one session?

My logic is that by the end of the cycle, you should see serious gain in the upper part of the motion. Last time I did 93kg for 3 reps, and only scraped home for 97X1, so I reckon it will help on the big lifts, as I seem to be struggling at a particular point almost horizontal elbows, but not quite.

 

[cptkirk]

why not work off the chest with pauses and deadstop benches? that's easily the weakest part of the bench...

if you're inclined with board presses then use them as your max effort for the week and just work up to a 3 rep max each week from 3, 2, 1 board then deload

you'll want a 2 week deload after smolov anyway too so this is a fair while away

 

[JHF1870]

why not work off the chest with pauses and deadstop benches? that's easily the weakest part of the bench...

if you're inclined with board presses then use them as your max effort for the week and just work up to a 3 rep max each week from 3, 2, 1 board then deload

you'll want a 2 week deload after smolov anyway too so this is a fair while away

tx
oh yeah i forgot to mention. last time I did the 3 rep rack presses you mentioned, it caused way too much stress on my joints and I went backwards. hence the talk of board presses. I got a lot of elbow pain inside and just above on the outside towards tricep.

Pauses could work nicely though, I usually try to put pauses into all my lower effort days especially reps 3-5 at the end.

 

[JHF1870]

Omg smolov jr is brutal. Ive just finished first week. Well technically 2nd as i set weight according to 1rm and should have underestimated. I dropped the weight 2.5kg, 6s 5s and 4s were easy, then on no rest hitting 10×3 is killer. Was scraping bottom of the barrel for last two sets. Its one thing to do a set of 3 at 92.5kg but to do 10×3 with no rest day is crazy. Arms are so sore. Up by 5kg as reccommended for next week. Hoping the shock of back to back speeds up recovery.

 

[WeetBixKid]

Omg smolov jr is brutal. Ive just finished first week. Well technically 2nd as i set weight according to 1rm and should have underestimated. I dropped the weight 2.5kg, 6s 5s and 4s were easy, then on no rest hitting 10×3 is killer. Was scraping bottom of the barrel for last two sets. Its one thing to do a set of 3 at 92.5kg but to do 10×3 with no rest day is crazy. Arms are so sore. Up by 5kg as reccommended for next week. Hoping the shock of back to back speeds up recovery.

Awesome. I'm going to run a Smolov Jnr cycle for bench & squat in about 2 months. I'll be taking a lot of rest between my 10x3 sets that's for sure.

 

[JHF1870]

Awesome. I'm going to run a Smolov Jnr cycle for bench & squat in about 2 months. I'll be taking a lot of rest between my 10x3 sets that's for sure.

yeah i didnt time mine, some sets were tougher cos i reckon i had less break. Interestingly youre arms are really sore for first 3 sets, then you are fine. My advice is take 10÷ off your 1rm, and increase from 1st week by 7.5kg to 10kg instead of 5. Better to start low. I made the mistake of starting too high. I knew i could easily hit the 85kg for 3 reps, but doing it for 10 sets back to back, you fatigue so fast.

 

[cptkirk]

start way under - if you plan the hole thing out then you'll see how close you end up compared to 'max" by week 4 for crazy vol...you wonlt make it otherwise and the point is to NOT miss a rep which you will do if you start too high

 

[BrockBlitz]

Joined a weightlifting club on Saturday. Quite excited about learning the O lifts!

Does anyone do this stuff ?

 

[WeetBixKid]

yeah i didnt time mine, some sets were tougher cos i reckon i had less break. Interestingly youre arms are really sore for first 3 sets, then you are fine. My advice is take 10÷ off your 1rm, and increase from 1st week by 7.5kg to 10kg instead of 5. Better to start low. I made the mistake of starting too high. I knew i could easily hit the 85kg for 3 reps, but doing it for 10 sets back to back, you fatigue so fast.

I was going to take a conservative 1RM & increase in 2.5kg increments

 

[TheDyerLegacy]

cptkirk Thought on strength training while cutting... what is the best approach?

 

[cptkirk]

priority 1 - keep some heavy strength work in there

otherwise it doesn't change much to be honest except you might throw some more cardio in the mix but it depends on what you are doing already and what degree of cutting you'll attempt to do (how much to lose in what amount of time)