Weight Training: For Beginners - Critique my program/Q & A

[mcuzzy]

Re: Weight Training Program

what are the benefits of doing shoulder press and db laterals on a fitball rather than a seat or bench? Is it just for midsection or does it add more pressure on shoulders?

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Weight Training Program

1 - don't even do standing laterals, look a the wt that you're using...it couldn't possibly make you bigger or stronger

2 - why use a swissball that decreases the load when you can use a bench?

 

[blues4flag]

Re: Weight Training Program

Because a swiss ball requires you to balance yourself so you don't topple over, improving core strength?

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Weight Training Program

would it train core or balance?

your small stabiliser muscles are dominant in sb exercises so your prime movers (big muscles) don't get stimulated enough thus you can get weaker and smaller if you do too much of this

some exercises on a swissball actually increases spinal compression so for core just stick with planks, side planks, pallof presses etc

 

[aNty]

Re: Weight Training Program

Does anyone know any good ab exercises that will take around 15 minutes? I want to incorporate them at the end of a few work outs but still thinking of which exercises.

 

[Schism]

Re: Weight Training Program

Does anyone know any good ab exercises that will take around 15 minutes? I want to incorporate them at the end of a few work outs but still thinking of which exercises.

Try doing crunches on an exercise ball,with feet on the floor and against the wall to hold the ball in place.I do them because it's easy on the back as well.

 

[blues4flag]

Re: Weight Training Program

Does anyone know any good ab exercises that will take around 15 minutes? I want to incorporate them at the end of a few work outs but still thinking of which exercises.

Planks, side planks, crunches, captain's chair, etc.

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Weight Training Program

planks
side planks
pallof presses
deadbug series
roll outs

and their many variations

 

[mcuzzy]

Re: Weight Training Program

Loving this thread right now.

Need some quick advice. I think I'm overworking my delts, not too sure but i'll put some down. for chest im doing

db press
incline db press
flat db flys
decline bench
cable crossover

delts get a fair work from doing the monday chest routine then thursdays i do delts.
need to know what to add and what exercises to remove that are the best or worst.

seated db shoulder press
heavy military press
db lateral raises
barbell upright rows
cable delt raises (instead of dumbell raises)
cable lateral raises
rear delt lateral raises
rear delt cable un-crossovers

advice please!!
my current problem is I started with a program tat didnt work so i took lots of advice on board from asking around the gym and eventually i built up quite a few exercises and am not sure if im overworking or not.

 

[Schism]

Re: Weight Training Program

Loving this thread right now.

Need some quick advice. I think I'm overworking my delts, not too sure but i'll put some down. for chest im doing

db press
incline db press
flat db flys
decline bench
cable crossover

delts get a fair work from doing the monday chest routine then thursdays i do delts.
need to know what to add and what exercises to remove that are the best or worst.

seated db shoulder press
heavy military press
db lateral raises
barbell upright rows
cable delt raises (instead of dumbell raises)
cable lateral raises
rear delt lateral raises
rear delt cable un-crossovers

advice please!!
my current problem is I started with a program tat didnt work so i took lots of advice on board from asking around the gym and eventually i built up quite a few exercises and am not sure if im overworking or not.

I would avoid upright rows if i were you,just some friendly advice...

My delts are big,my shoulder workout consists of

3-4 sets barbell military/shoulder press
3-4 sets of seated dumbell lateral raises
3-4 sets of either seated rear delt dumbell flyes,or reverse cable crossovers which target rear delts

that's it,takes about 25-30 minutes usually

 

[Kong]

Re: Weight Training Program

seated db shoulder press
heavy military press
db lateral raises
barbell upright rows
cable delt raises (instead of dumbell raises)
cable lateral raises
rear delt lateral raises
rear delt cable un-crossovers

I have bolded the ones I would keep.

I'm assuming 'cable delt raises' are front raises. To be honest there's probably no point in have such high volume for your shoulders, especially at a moderate body weight.

My rule of thumb is one primary lifting exercise (x3-4 sets), one additional front delt exercise (x2-3), one additonal medial delt exercise (x3), one rear delt exercise (usually bent-over reverse flyes; x3-4 sets).

Anything more than that isn't really necessary, in my opinion.

Also I agree with Schism; Upright Rows, while arguably 'functional', are bloody terrible for shoulder injuries. Avoid at all costs.

 

[mcuzzy]

Re: Weight Training Program

I have bolded the ones I would keep.

I'm assuming 'cable delt raises' are front raises. To be honest there's probably no point in have such high volume for your shoulders, especially at a moderate body weight.

My rule of thumb is one primary lifting exercise (x3-4 sets), one additional front delt exercise (x2-3), one additonal medial delt exercise (x3), one rear delt exercise (usually bent-over reverse flyes; x3-4 sets).

Anything more than that isn't really necessary, in my opinion.

Also I agree with Schism; Upright Rows, while arguably 'functional', are bloody terrible for shoulder injuries. Avoid at all costs.

Cheers to both Shism and Womb, love your advice guys.

Upright rows was just something i added in from obsevation.
Probably good to get rid of them, werent going too well with my currently dodgey collar bones either.

but yeah thanks guys i'll get to work

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Weight Training Program

1 - definately over working the delts, your bench numbers will be suffering too because of it

2 - i never known why you would need flat, inlcine and decline press in the same workout..

3 - unless your actually trying to define your delts for bodybuilding the raises really aren't neccesary...you need big shoulders built with big wt before you can detail them

4 - also agree with upright roiws...they pout you i horizontal abduction which is the impingement zone...i don't give these to clients with healthy shoulders, let alone w/ pre existing injuries

5 - from my experience you'll rarely find any decent info from those at the gym, even the bigger blokes..find someone who' wasn't big and strong and transformed themselves, not the blokes who are naturally big...unfortunatlery that includes most of the trainers too...the blokes here are pretty though

 

[mcuzzy]

Re: Weight Training Program

1 - definately over working the delts, your bench numbers will be suffering too because of it

2 - i never known why you would need flat, inlcine and decline press in the same workout..

3 - unless your actually trying to define your delts for bodybuilding the raises really aren't neccesary...you need big shoulders built with big wt before you can detail them

4 - also agree with upright roiws...they pout you i horizontal abduction which is the impingement zone...i don't give these to clients with healthy shoulders, let alone w/ pre existing injuries

5 - from my experience you'll rarely find any decent info from those at the gym, even the bigger blokes..find someone who' wasn't big and strong and transformed themselves, not the blokes who are naturally big...unfortunatlery that includes most of the trainers too...the blokes here are pretty though

thanks for the tips.

ive cut out upright rows.
i always get to know someone before asking advice unless its basic advice like keeping my back straight when doing tricep pulldowns.

I need to do separate work for my left delt after my workout because my left isnt as big or defined as my right.

and as for the flat, incline and decline, thats only because i wanted something for chest, upper chest and lower chest. please correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[Kong]

Re: Weight Training Program

the blokes here are pretty though

Never knew you felt that way.

 

[blues4flag]

Re: Weight Training Program

I do upright rows but I read so long as you maintain a decent width (hands about shoulder width apart), then it shouldn't be a problem:

A shoulder width grip is suggested when performing the upright row. The greater internal rotation required for a close grip upright row decreases the subacromial space (area between the greater tubercle of the humerus and acromioclavicular joint). This may potentially impinge the supraspinatus tendon and the subacromial bursa (a protective sac of fluid cushioning the bone from the tendon). A wider grip allows for more space between the shoulder joint and the head of the humerus allowing for more clearance of the underlying structures. For the same reason, when performing a one arm upright row, keep the elbow pointing directly to the side, instead of angling it slightly to the front. The subacromial space as well as other biomechanical and biometric factors vary from person to person so some individuals may be more prone to complications while others report no problems performing the narrower grip upright row.

http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/Safety.html#anchor64967

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Weight Training Program

all a wide grip does it lessen the chance of injury, it still isn't good...a closer grip will allow you to raise your elbows up higher, a wider grip doesn't but you still enter the impingement zone (90 degrees horrizontal abduction)

it also depends on what type of acromial process you have with type 1 being the only one you'd even try these with

i'm a big fan of 1 movement (not muscle or part of a muscle) being worked per session and working it hard

i'm in deload week now but my last full week for my upper body day was:

bench paired with pull ups 5 x 3
single arm push press paired with seated row 3 x 8
roll out paired with external rotation 3 x 8 / 10

1 exercise per main movement worked hard...

i also do 2 other full body days with other upper body work in those...and a leg day

 

[mcuzzy]

Re: Weight Training Program

needing some more advice from the real guns in here, refuse to listen to the pt's shit at my gym, ive been there 2 years working my arse off but because my muscle doesnt seem to show as much (im seriously skinny and have an undeveloped 18 year old body) they seem to think i dont know anything at all.

ok first of all.

im happy with my chest workout BUT.. after my workout is it a good idea to do 50-10 pushups a day? or will that ruin recovery?

should i stretch everyday to help increase muscle recovery and gain?

and is doing close grip bench press for triceps going to ruin chest recovery even if they are 5 and 3 days apart from eachother?

also need confirmation on something. i used to get pretty decent leg results doing 12-14 reps with as much weight as possible but one of the trainers told me to reduce it to 8 - 10 if i want to do it serious. since then iv been less impressed with my legs except my calf muscles which are improving. anyway, read some of schwarzeneggers advice and he said to aim for 12 - 16 reps on legs as they can withstand more and youll get more results and feel the burn or whatever?!?!

Help please.

and i'll have you know i'm not as newbie as i sound

cheers guys

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Weight Training Program

yep most pt's are shit, should have been at our interviews yesturday...some absolute ******s...

1 - let's put it this way...you lift about 60% of your bodyweight for each push up...i don't know your wt but let's say 75kgs...60% of 75 is 45kgs...your doing 100 reps a day so 4500 total kgs lifted...to get that through bench pressing with your own bodyweight, you'd need to do 60 more reps (6 sets of 10 for instance)...if you did that would you tjink it's too much? you've got to look at overall volume...it does bring up an interesting point though...your probably trying to get bigger and training each muscle once a week like bodybuilder's do but the first thing you do to get even more size is to train MORE FREQUENTLY...why not train each muscle 2 - 3 times a week then and be done with it?

2 - why would stretching help? it temporarily stretches the fascia around the muscles but unless your doing it between sets it won't help much

3 - yes and no...iot still stresses the chest a fair bit and trains a similar movement pattern...also depends on volume and intensity of both days

4 - don't worry about arnold's advice or the burn...lower reps equals more wt...i think that will get you bigger...of course if you start doing 8 reps at 100kgs then slowly increase that to 16 reps with the same wt then yes, you'll get much bigger

 

[mcuzzy]

Re: Weight Training Program

your probably trying to get bigger and training each muscle once a week like bodybuilder's do but the first thing you do to get even more size is to train MORE FREQUENTLY...why not train each muscle 2 - 3 times a week then and be done with it?

the reason i no longer do that is i did that for almost a year, eventually frustration set in and when i was convinced i had enough correct advice i started doing each muscle group in a day. the results short and long term were enough to keep me hooked.

you might see my complaints and questions on here and guess im a noob or whatever but i've been pretty self concious about my body the past few years and now that i've gained almost 14 kgs in under year and a half i feel almost obsessed and i feel the need to ask for reassurance constantly about advice etc.

i hate explaining stuff liek this because it makes me feel like im trying to act as though i know more than everyone. but when given advice i do try it. and going back to the more frequent exercise thing like you suggested (i went back and did it for 3 weeks) and i really felt as though a truck had hit me and dragged me off track.

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Weight Training Program

when training with increased frequency you need fluctuate your volume and intensity per session, it's not jusy do a banech press to failure

my split is:

mon - full body

wed - lower vody

thu - upper body

sat - full body

so for chest i just did alternating db presses on mon, bench press heavy on thu and a push up on sat

for legs i did moderate wt front squats with partial speed focus on mon, deads/reverse lunges and glute ham raises on wed and walking lunges on sat

see what i mean? this way each time i train chest/legs, i can use as much wt as i can for each exercise more so then if i did all of them in the 1 day where the last exercise would be worthless even trying to with the wt i actually used

ask away too mate, you've got a great resource in the people that are on here, use them

 

[AG]

Re: Weight Training Program

Good split, good username as well.

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Weight Training Program

a great year, unfortunately i don't see one in the forseeable future though

 

[showdownhero]

Re: Weight Training Program

needing some more advice from the real guns in here, refuse to listen to the pt's shit at my gym, ive been there 2 years working my arse off but because my muscle doesnt seem to show as much (im seriously skinny and have an undeveloped 18 year old body) they seem to think i dont know anything at all.

8/10 personal trainers either know **** all or can't impart their knowledge in a contructive way to clients or members of their gym. I would take most of their advice with a grain of salt read from the pros and take the advice that works for you discard what doesn't

ok first of all.

im happy with my chest workout BUT.. after my workout is it a good idea to do 50-10 pushups a day? or will that ruin recovery?

should i stretch everyday to help increase muscle recovery and gain?

To aid recovery and gains you need four things; plenty of water, streching of the muscle to ensure blood flow, activation of muscles (ie performings exercises) and adequete nitrogen replacement (through protein). In other words low weight high rep routine will not have any detremental effects on recovery. I would compare it to going for a run a day after a leg work out.

and is doing close grip bench press for triceps going to ruin chest recovery even if they are 5 and 3 days apart from eachother?

Make sure you are strict and keep your elbows close to your side. To be honest with that number of days off even if you are a bit sloppy it shouldn't effect your chest too much. On a side note have you tried doing close grip bench on a decline bench? It places much less stress on your shoulders.

also need confirmation on something. i used to get pretty decent leg results doing 12-14 reps with as much weight as possible but one of the trainers told me to reduce it to 8 - 10 if i want to do it serious. since then iv been less impressed with my legs except my calf muscles which are improving. anyway, read some of schwarzeneggers advice and he said to aim for 12 - 16 reps on legs as they can withstand more and youll get more results and feel the burn or whatever?!?!

Terminator > dickwad clueless trainer

Help please.

and i'll have you know i'm not as newbie as i sound

cheers guys

BTW I follow a similar routine to you, i.e. focus on individual muscle groups and no more than three in any session. Usually

Pecs, bis and abs

Legs and delts

Back and Tris

I've also seen great strength and size gains. Above all listen to peoples advice and utilise what works for you.

 

[Red Gum]

Re: Weight Training Program

Hi guys.

I'm looking to increase vertical leap. I figure explosive power through the pelvic chain is the way to go but I've had problems with the ITB recently and a lower back spasm related to Glute tightness. I want to work toward the deadlifts and powersquate and plyometrics but at the moment the injury risk is too great.

Any advice on exercises for the lower half that will help stabilisation/injury prevention. I'm doing some deep core stuff and I have a great physio but I don't want to lose strength because I'v had to step away from the power leg work for a few weeks.

(I'm 30yo. 190cms 99kgs. I can do about three sessions a week)