Society/Culture The Welcome/Acknowledgment of Country thread

[eastfreo75]

All the racist middle-aged white guys are out in full force in this thread.

Image using racism and ageism as an argument.

 

[demondavey]

Humans were hard wired in such a way that everything that has unfolded throughout history over the planet was inevitable.

Agree or disagree?

Couldn’t agree less…. You’re making excuses for the English wiping out people because you’ve been put out by an Aboriginal man telling you WTC wasn’t invented for you.

Stop bullshitting everyone.

 

[Muddiemoose]

It is not a belief , it is fact based on verified accounts of what happened.
He didn't discover anything, the lands were already discovered.
All he did was spread disease, kill and forcibly steal land.
If you want to celebrate his legacy that's up to you.

You seem overly emotional about the subject and are essentially displaying the same kind of attitude that people who deny any wrongdoing
Refusing to acknowledge the greater context and looking at history as a complete picture

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Image using racism and ageism as an argument.

Ok Sammy Newman, get your booing boots on and you show these uppity black people who's boss.
It's your right because you pay taxes.

 

[schneebly111]

I think Sport should be free of politics first of all.

Second i think welcome to country doesnt do anything for uniting infact the opposite.

I also assume you’ll be in favour of the AFL getting rid of that thing where the crowd are forced to stand in silence to worship a bunch of government employees carrying out government policy in late April, which is 100% political too?

 

[eastfreo75]

Ok Sammy Newman, get your booing boots on and you show these uppity black people who's boss.
It's your right because you pay taxes.

Now you are using classism, keep going. You have forgotten two isms to use.

 

[demondavey]

I never said atrocities never happened. But we all are the beneficiaries of British settlement which on the whole is overwhelmingly a good thing. English Common Law, Democracy, the Constitutional freedoms are humanities best hope… still. If it wasn’t, you would return to your ancestral homeland, which you don’t.
And to think it was all rainbows and unicorns here before Cook (BC) is a fallacy.

We benefit from it, however we still can’t quite get our heads around it to acknowledge it. Or the racists can’t. Was it that offensive what was said in that WTC speech? Are you that offended by it? Again, looking for excuses to derail WTC by thinking it’s ‘divisive’.

It’s really pathetic….

 

[demondavey]

I think Sport should be free of politics first of all.

Second i think welcome to country doesnt do anything for uniting infact the opposite.

If you’re a racist it wouldn’t…

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

You seem overly emotional about the subject and are essentially displaying the same kind of attitude that people who deny any wrongdoing
Refusing to acknowledge the greater context and looking at history as a complete picture

Not emotional just fact based . You are downplaying facts with a cover all term of 'historical context'.
The context being that it was just the done thing back in the day.

 

[demondavey]

You seem overly emotional about the subject and are essentially displaying the same kind of attitude that people who deny any wrongdoing
Refusing to acknowledge the greater context and looking at history as a complete picture

Fill us in on the greater context that Aboriginal people are still dealing with….

 

[Muddiemoose]

Not emotional just fact based . You are downplaying facts with a cover all term of 'historical context'.
The context being that it was just the done thing back in the day.

I’m not downplaying anything
I’m acknowledging both sides of the coin

As we should with all historical figures

Should we call the Ancient Greek philosophers horrible people because they practiced pederasty or look at it through the context of what was accepted at the time?

 

[Bostonian]

It is not a belief , it is fact based on verified accounts of what happened.
He didn't discover anything, the lands were already discovered.
All he did was spread disease, kill and forcibly steal land.
If you want to celebrate his legacy that's up to you.

The Vikings discovered Ireland on their sea journeys and then started invading and pillaging Ireland.

See how the word discovered can be used in different context?

Nobody is out there crying that the Vikings actually discovered Ireland.

Because people understand the context of the word.

Cooks discovery has nothing to do with people already being there.

It's about the wider world becoming aware of something.

 

[garlic munchers]

I'll admit it does get terribly overused, especially when white upper managers do it in every Teams/Zoom meeting but there seems to be an abundance of people who think they're being 'welcomed' to Australia and cry "BuT i WaS BOrN HerE!!!!" without having any understanding of what the actual purpose of it is.

So, Brendan Kerin was entirely correct when he said it "wasn't for white people", because it's been around far longer than that.

You want to try working with some of the Northern Indigenous corporations that have secured mining royalties for mining or miscellaneous access such as railway lines (as I have) ..... and observe what happens if you are a Noongar man who moves into the area and requests financial assistance from the charitable funds trustees.

Certainly no "Welcome to Country" extended here, even if the access agreement includes express provisions that fees paid are to benefit all Indigenous peoples in an area (note this would be a very common inclusion in agreements with the bigger miners, but it pretty much gets negotiated out of the draft very early on).

Welcome to Country just perpetuates this fantasy that Australia pre-colonialism was a land inhabited by happy little tele tubbies that lived with with the land (excessive pyromaniac activities aside).

The reality is they could be just as brutal as all other human beings seeking to survive in a harsh pre modern world, exploited the land as much as they could with their technology of the day and would have had their fair share of good people and bad people, as every other society has. Should any community, civilisation that practiced this be damned today by those actions?

Interesting that a fair few want to judge Cook by the standards of today, so should all indigenous cultures be judged on how they treated women of the day. Should any sex back then with a person under 16 be termed child rape and forced marriage a denial of human rights and effectibly rape (as should early European communities)?

Seems we have a propensity to only want to go down certain rabbit holes, particularly one that have the promise of a pot of gold at the bottom.

 

[Muddiemoose]

Fill us in on the greater context that Aboriginal people are still dealing with….

That colonisation led to the atrocities and attempted genocide of their people and way of life, but modern peoples can acknowledge that while cook played a part he is not inherently a bad person and also look back on his legacy as a captain, navigator and explorer

 

[Bostonian]

It means he shot dead many Indigenous people, pretended he was a God , treated the women like prostitutes and he and hid crew spread Syphlis knowing they had it and infected people with tuburcoiosis knowing they had it
He treated Indigenous people like they were animals.
If anyone got aggressive, he would blow their brains out.
This guy was a real murdering racist prick.

So say that then.

There's an irony in you having an avatar of the flag of a people who follow someone who was a massive coloniser and far worse person than Cook.

Do you go in on that guy as hard as Cook?

 

[bzparkes]

You want to try working with some of the Northern Indigenous corporations that have secured mining royalties for mining or miscellaneous access such as railway lines (as I have) ..... and observe what happens if you are a Noongar man who moves into the area and requests financial assistance from the charitable funds trustees.

Certainly no "Welcome to Country" extended here, even if the access agreement includes express provisions that fees paid are to benefit all Indigenous peoples in an area (note this would be a very common inclusion in agreements with the bigger miners, but it pretty much gets negotiated out of the draft very early on).

Welcome to Country just perpetuates this fantasy that Australia pre-colonialism was a land inhabited by happy little tele tubbies that lived with with the land (excessive pyromaniac activities aside).

The reality is they could be just as brutal as all other human beings seeking to survive in a harsh pre modern world, exploited the land as much as they could with their technology of the day and would have had their fair share of good people and bad people, as every other society has.

Interesting that a fair few want to judge Cook by the standards of today, so should all indigenous cultures be judged on how they treated women of the day. Should any sex back then with a person under 16 be termed child rape, forced marriage an exercise of rape (as should early European communities)?

Seems we have a propensity to only want to go down certain rabbit holes, particularly one that have the promise of a pot of gold at the bottom.

Oh I agree, I just find it funny when the "i WaS BOrN HeRE!!" hysterical crowd fire up.

 

[Freshwater]

But it was all achieved with a significant level of brutality towards Aboriginal Australians which is still not recognised by a lot of us despite the fact that all of us materially benefit from the dispossession every day.

There was brutality towards Aboriginals no doubt about that. As I’ve said many times I’m glad to a knowledge that. But criticism of Cook is just stupid. 99.99% of the wealth was built by hard bloody work. What we have today was the result of all that hard work. The working classes and the convicts need a knowledgment for the stadiums they are watching these games in and roads and rail that delivered them there etc etc. We have all contributed to our culture, the constant disrespect to our ancestors from the British Isles is just as disrespectful as it is to not acknowledge the Aboriginals.

 

[StillAtLarge]

I have no problem with the welcome to country but I'd probably prefer a new national anthem that has at least one verse in a first nations language.
Every time I hear the NZ equivalent I feel equal parts sad and envious that they have a rousing Māori opening that everyone knows the words to.
Our anthem is complete horseshit

 

[Bostonian]

Couldn’t agree less…. You’re making excuses for the English wiping out people because you’ve been put out by an Aboriginal man telling you WTC wasn’t invented for you.

Stop bullshitting everyone.

Well if you disagree then exactly where in history do you think it all started?

I have a feeling you have **** all idea about history so will be good to see why you think it all could have gone a different way.

You do realise the "English" only exist because of multiple invasions of Briton by multiple different culture yes?

You think English is a language that the Britons spoke?

 

[eastfreo75]

We benefit from it, however we still can’t quite get our heads around it to acknowledge it. Or the racists can’t. Was it that offensive what was said in that WTC speech? Are you that offended by it? Again, looking for excuses to derail WTC by thinking it’s ‘divisive’.

It’s really pathetic….

Such a crap stupid argument.

British brought common law which poor people can't access. You get the justice you can afford.

Democratic process where first nations didn't get a vote because they were considered subhuman.

My sister who is has Indian heritage did something with 10 other white kids. The cops confused with being first nations and charged her but not the other 10 white kids. On the court date, they offered Aboriginal legal. My dad who is white said that she wasn't first nations. Guess what? They dropped the charges.

Aboriginals' death in custody NO ONE POLICE OFFICER has been charged.

Great argument, that we brought common law and you should be grateful.

 

[demondavey]

Well if you disagree then exactly where in history do you think it all started?

I have a feeling you have **** all idea about history so will be good to see why you think it all could have gone a different way.

You do realise the "English" only exist because of multiple invasions of Briton by multiple different culture yes?

You think English is a language that the Britons spoke?

You’re doing nothing but make excuses for it. It’s not about understanding history, it’s about understanding tolerance. You’re still offended by being told WTC isn’t for white people.

 

[Cleric]

But it is

It's conquered land, in an era of conquest, just like one Aboriginal tribe would conquer and take over a rivals land and woman.

 

[burge13]

We've reached a new low of stupidity. People judging Cook by todays standards
Good grief, words cannot describe that lunacy

 

[Bostonian]

You’re doing nothing but make excuses for it. It’s not about understanding history, it’s about understanding tolerance. You’re still offended by being told WTC isn’t for white people.

I'm not making any excuses.

Quite the opposite.

I'm saying this kind of shitty tribal behaviour has been going on since the dawn of man.

Nobody is special, nobody was spared this kind of behaviour.

I haven't said I'm offended. That's you making it up.

I just think it's a massive grift.

 

[eastfreo75]

We've reached a new low of stupidity. People judging Cook by todays standards
Good grief, words cannot describe that lunacy

What? murdering and raping wasn't considered wrong in that time.