Don't agree at all, thought he contested well and was showing real spark around the ground, his follow up plays getting stronger as well.
Game Day West Coast V Adelaide Friday March 3rd 4.40PM @ MRP
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I've been reliably informed that he's too reactive.
Carbine Chaos
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I think that’s flat out denial tbh. We’ve been very disappointing for the best part of 4 seasons now.
Whilst there were plenty of contributing factors, the red flags are undeniable. Our side is aging, slow, with an outdated and poorly implemented gameplan. A playing list allowed to be too comfortable for too long.
We have some hope with some very talented young players just joining and the promise (potentially empty, but who knows) of a new gamestyle and on field identity.
While preseason games aren’t the time to show your cards I think we’re in for plenty of pain this year. Those years can be fun though, as we’ll no doubt have plenty to like from Ginbey, Hewett and co. Will try to enjoy the ride as best I can.
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A heap I agree with there tbh but I also think we will climb to mid table-ish this year and the young guys will come on even quicker than expected with Culley / Ginbey / Hewett at the forefront of that. There should be plenty of promise of better times to come by season’s end I think
Carbine Chaos
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I hope so mate, but moves like demoting Culley over the senior players tonight disturb me. Hough going AWOL after being a real positive last year.
My main worry is we go into the second half of this season near the bottom still relying on the incumbent mids that haven’t delivered for a few years now. Simpson needs to make hard decisions at some point sooner rather than later on a fair few ‘safe’ players if we are to move forward.
Carbine Chaos
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Btw I’m aware that I’m overreacting based on a practice game (and a little drunk) but we just all love this club and want to see it succeed. Have a clear direction. I hope to see it soon, just worried.
I really hope we don’t dead cat bounce up the ladder, as we need at least 3 more lowish drafts to restock the midfield and find a CHB (McGovern won’t be holding down a key position when we are back in contention circa 2027) and CHF.
Gunbey 2nd most tackles (5) for West Coast, behind only Hurn (6).
In 56%TOG no less.
Speaks volumes about the others.
In 56%TOG no less.
Speaks volumes about the others.
They're shit, is what I'm saying.
In this preseason match against Adelaide, West Coast had differentials of the following:
Despite questionable stoppage setups and being doubled in the hit outs 22-44, those above figures are hardly suggestive of a 10 goal thumping.
Yet in the same match, it also had these differentials:
There is only one way that occurs in isolation from the first set of figures above: a complete lack of accountability post-stoppage in the middle of the ground.
Accountability requires just one thing: work rate. Any team regardless of age or depth of talent is entirely capable of providing that.
Such a focussed lack of accountability is a product of instruction.
The emphasis appears to be solely upon getting hands on the ball first and getting forward as fast as possible - with next to no consideration given to what happens when the opponent gains possession.
West Coast in 2022 had an average metres gained differential of -719, the worst in the competition.
I'm starting to come to the conclusion that our anticipation of a new gameplan is a misinterpretation - what we are seeing is the new gameplan and things are progressing in the eyes of those calling the shots. In reality, the emperor has no clothes.
+8 clearances
-8 contested possessions
+7 uncontested possessions
Despite questionable stoppage setups and being doubled in the hit outs 22-44, those above figures are hardly suggestive of a 10 goal thumping.
Yet in the same match, it also had these differentials:
-33 score involvements
-28 inside 50s
-737 metres gained
There is only one way that occurs in isolation from the first set of figures above: a complete lack of accountability post-stoppage in the middle of the ground.
Accountability requires just one thing: work rate. Any team regardless of age or depth of talent is entirely capable of providing that.
Such a focussed lack of accountability is a product of instruction.
The emphasis appears to be solely upon getting hands on the ball first and getting forward as fast as possible - with next to no consideration given to what happens when the opponent gains possession.
West Coast in 2022 had an average metres gained differential of -719, the worst in the competition.
I'm starting to come to the conclusion that our anticipation of a new gameplan is a misinterpretation - what we are seeing is the new gameplan and things are progressing in the eyes of those calling the shots. In reality, the emperor has no clothes.
Ok, now do last week.
Or, give it more than 1 practice game as a sample size. I like your analysis usually but this is ridiculously reactive.
One practice game is far too small to make a call like this, especially considering we didn't have the personnel to practice said plan last season.
Give it at least this season and half of next before making a call. you simply can't get it right in one season.
Totally agree. Fed up with seeing the same regressing senior players who've led us to such horrible efforts across 2021-22 continuing to be prioritised. Staggering to think two players who have quickly showed good AFL potential in Hough and Culley are suddenly on the outer for them. What message is this sending to them? Unless they've had ordinary pre-seasons they should be in. And we've got plenty of experience in our "A"-team (Gov, Barrass, Duggan, Hurn, Gaff, Yeo, Kelly, Sheed, Nic Nat, Cripps, Darling, Ryan. Even Cole, Witho, Petch, Waterman, Rotham have been around a while now) that we can afford to drop a few without us fielding an overly young side.
In short, our senior group are nowhere near up to it, given their age they're not getting better, so surely we don't play a few of them. Starting with Gaff.
Also, not that I saw any of today's game, but I don't think XON will ever become even an average-quality AFL mid. I would be prioritising all our other young mids over him (to the extent their tank, strength & conditioning allows) over him - e.g. Hough, Culley and Hewett who were all behind him tonight.
Watching today reinforced my opinion that on current form Gov is the best and most creative kick in the backline.
Credit to Gov, especially as a big man, but it's a bit of an indictment on our backline.
Credit to Gov, especially as a big man, but it's a bit of an indictment on our backline.
Gov is the best kick??
Not Hurn with his apparent cannon of a leg he rarely uses, or Duggans "laser" left which was arguably most lethal in his debut season in 2015?
Speaks volumes about our actual attacking/rebounding defenders if they don't use the ball as well as our 196cm KPD.
Hunt I like, and I like that he takes the game on, but I don't think kicking is his huge strength either. Wouldn't mind drafting another Jetta. Moir hint hint
Not Hurn with his apparent cannon of a leg he rarely uses, or Duggans "laser" left which was arguably most lethal in his debut season in 2015?
Speaks volumes about our actual attacking/rebounding defenders if they don't use the ball as well as our 196cm KPD.
Hunt I like, and I like that he takes the game on, but I don't think kicking is his huge strength either. Wouldn't mind drafting another Jetta. Moir hint hint
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I haven't seen the game but the write up's say that the main problem was moving the ball from the backline with some degree of attacking flair (speed and directness) and without turning it over. Most of Adelaide's scores came from turnovers. There seems to be a school of thought that this is just because the players are so used to the slow precise kicking game plan from before and are in two minds when they have ball in hand. But i am not sure i buy that. Surely they have been coached which options to look for first, second and third and been drilled in where to look and what to do. I doubt there is confusion at this point. Seems more like this group of players are just not good enough to execute the skills under pressure.
Keys
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On the team in general
As was the case last week, and last year, we lost the territory battle (37-65 inside 50s). It’s unsustainable because ultimately it relies on the opposition squandering opportunities like Port did whilst maximising our own.
It puts the defence under constant pressure and allows the opponent to set up behind the ball defensively to create repeat forward entries because there’s no clear path out. Defenders become conservative with their decision making resulting in long kicks down the line to a contest or a series of short go nowhere passes that inevitably result in a turnover when one misses the target
There’s a lack of dare with our passing. Switch kicks to get to the open side are fine but unlike what Adelaide did by still taking some forward ground when switching (even if only a few metres) to a player on the move, ours go back to a stationary player
There’s a lack of genuine aggression when attacking a loose ball and our better players tonight like Ginbey and somewhat surprisingly Petruccelle made a genuine beeline at the footy
I’d forgotten that Burgess had gone to the Crows last off season and they showed the benefit of a second season under him tonight. We’ve had a good off season but Adelaide look to have had a great one - fit, strong, fast
To me it also showed our focus this off season was getting healthy again after our problems last year and work on the game plan has come late. Adelaide with a better fitness base have worked on their plans more and looked far more cohesive
Tonight was a reality check and as I said in my post you quoted we looked like a side just wanting to get game time under our belt. The scars from last years preseason are still there imo and there’s an unspoken fear of getting injured throughout the club that to a degree explains some of the hesitancy. Hopefully that disappears once we get to round 1
Individually
• Ryan was subdued and didn’t have the same influence as last week. Seemed more interested in flying more marks than getting after ground balls
• Waterman missed an opportunity to secure a best 22 position partly due to a lack of supply but also some slow thinking when he did get the ball
• Gaff was the 2022 version unfortunately. Based on form I don’t think he should be picked round 1 but I expect he will be. He looks slow and ineffectual- at least he was kept out of centre bounces but played on a wing he had no impact. Unless he improves rapidly it’s going to be a test of Simpson’s coaching to see if he has the minerals to drop him
• Sheed was rusty but not as bad as some posters have made out. We need more pace around him though and given his lack of pace his disposal by foot needs to be cleaner
• Hunt was one of our best and a rare shining light. Defended pretty well but more importantly was one player willing to run off half back to create
• Yeo did some good things but wasn’t the angry Yeo we know and love. Think he played within himself for reasons better known to him
• Ginbey was our best player in the first half before fading. Showed why he was so highly rated and gave good cause for optimism
• Hewett was put into the game too late and wasn’t given much chance to show his wares
• Kelly had one of THOSE Kelly games where he went missing. Be nice if he can find a way to still contribute something when he’s having an off game
• Allen had limited opportunity and maybe had one or two instances where he could compete 1 on 1 with his direct opponent. Is going to need Darling to help share the load
• Shuey looked like someone who hasn’t been playing match sim minutes. Was rustier than honey badgers hair and cost at least 2 or 3 goals with poor disposal in the back half. On the plus side he looked to be moving ok and showed glimpses that his pace and power were returning
• Duggan went ok and did at least attack the footy. Too careless with his disposal though
• Cripps had a mare and in a team display of fumbleitis he was the worst culprit
• Chesser had the effort but not the polish and I think the pace of the game caught him out a bit. Another step in his learning phase that he’ll be better for. Not sure if he’s ready for round 1. Maybe
• McGovern had plenty of intercept marks but had mixed success with his disposal. He’s a bit careless at times although he does at least try to take attacking options
• Petruccelle I thought played well and had more influence than his stats might otherwise indicate. As I alluded to earlier his attack on the footy was good and on a couple of occasions when he found himself down back he backed himself to run it out. For the most part good things happened when the ball went through his hands
• Witherden has to be better by foot and smarter with his positioning to cover for his near terminal lack of pace
• O’Neill is another one who I think was better than some have suggested. That said he’s depth as a mid who can come in and play a role rather than best 22
• Hurn is a crafty ****er that can get in the road and hold up opposition forward entries but he gets exposed if his opponent gets goal side of him. His kicking isn’t nearly as penetrating or reliable as it used to be. At some point we’re going to have to make a decision on whether we can carry him due to his lack of pace
• Cole didn’t have a big possession game but given he played on Rankine as far as I could tell and kept him pretty quiet he gets a pass. Does need to tidy up his dump kicks out of defence though
• Jones looked pretty disinterested to me. Had a poor game when he could have cemented a spot
• Rotham had a decent crack and unfortunately sounds like he got one in his elbow. Not sure where he fits though
• Barrass had his hands full with Fogarty and Walker and did ok considering the weight of supply. Dropped some marks he either should have taken or should have fisted instead
• Clark had a couple of good minutes when he first came on but struggled thereafter. Lack of pace is going to be an issue for him
• Jamieson has all the endeavour but not the ability just yet. Can see him going ok as 2nd ruck but he’s going to struggle as the main guy. At least he has a dip
If someone told me there was a bug went through the team pregame I’d believe it because they were lethargic and lacked the energy of last week
Reserving judgement for now as I wait to see who and how we rollout for round 1 but there was clear signs tonight that we haven’t advanced as far from last year I thought and hoped
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I wonder if Schofield and Gossage and other in the Perth media who talked us up and said top 8 was on the cards and Kelly for the Brownlow etc etc want to retract their statements. They can't be that stupid. Surely they were just saying it to curry favour with the club.
well who knows but each player was physically beaten and immediatly went into their shell offering no vital team support. Gove was a stand out. Seen it repeatedly for seasons so the sample is big and it isnt new. Old hands need to move on, the bulk of the list is bog average and hardly above good state league standard besides the love on here. So we have some young kids that will improve the list, they must be given roles now but it will take time and the team still needs some experience for balance.
Cole, probably Duggan, Waterman, Branders twin and a few others are dead weights in a developing side - they have had ample opportunities and have peaked at a low level. Luckly we have replacements that are young and offer better levels of class. They have no real trade value but no point keeping them unless we value Beagle performances.
We must draft in tall key position players with class at both ends . Allen will develop but he is learning that its a very tough role - he has to beat much bigger defenders that Barrass who was given another lesson.
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I have never rated Cole or Duggan either. But it upsets many people on here when you say that.
I think we need another 3 years of high draft picks (assuming we nail those picks) and putting games into the good young players we have. The hole we are in took multiple years for us to dig for ourselves and will take multiple years to get out of.
You have to wonder what the mentality and internal culture at the club is like. Why is Kelly, who is a talented player, so totally ****house in so many games? Is he not trying for much of the time? I doubt he was being hard tagged in a match sim. Why did senior players think it was OK to have lifestyles that ended up in beer guts in the last off season? Did they really need the club to make them stand on the scales and tell them they were fat and that that is not OK for a professional athlete? Aside from bringing through a new generation i think a whole bunch of other things need to change at the club too.
I am surprised that the usual posters on here haven't yet claimed that the turnovers and inability to move the ball in a match sim against a likely fellow bottom 8 side are all part of an ingenious ruse by Simpson to not reveal the new killer gameplan before Round 1.
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- May 25, 2017
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Biggest thing I got out of this game is Waterman is not able to play key position forward. He just can't take a contested mark. Too small and gets pushed away too easily. Just not up to it at all. Will be his last year as an Eagle. Can see him getting delisted.
We have Darling and Allen then it's going to become a huge issue for us this season. Cabinet is bare in that regard. Kennedy's lost I'm seeing now just how hard it will be as Allen is injury prone I'd doubt he plays all season. We will have a hole to fill when one of Allen and Darling won't play. God help us if they both go down.
Then there's the midfield again. Lack of pace and run. Gaff has got to go. Just adds nothing and is way to slow.
Sheed is a issue aswell in this regard. Needs to be addressed this season. We can't play them both in the same midfield.
We should be experimenting and playing Culley Chesser Gibney and Hewitt through there asap mixing it with Yeo and Kelly.
O'Neil looks like he won't make it. Just a league above his ability at AFL level.
We have Darling and Allen then it's going to become a huge issue for us this season. Cabinet is bare in that regard. Kennedy's lost I'm seeing now just how hard it will be as Allen is injury prone I'd doubt he plays all season. We will have a hole to fill when one of Allen and Darling won't play. God help us if they both go down.
Then there's the midfield again. Lack of pace and run. Gaff has got to go. Just adds nothing and is way to slow.
Sheed is a issue aswell in this regard. Needs to be addressed this season. We can't play them both in the same midfield.
We should be experimenting and playing Culley Chesser Gibney and Hewitt through there asap mixing it with Yeo and Kelly.
O'Neil looks like he won't make it. Just a league above his ability at AFL level.
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How about we have already seen 3 years of steaming performances and have at least another 3 to go?
No one would complain if we could see a) some sort of game plan different to those 3 years and b) it being executed by young guys learning the game rather than hurn killing momentum, our non existent midfield group and lazy forwards.
You can cop Chesser missing handball or kick targets but you shouldn’t be copping Shuey doing it twice in ten mins in a quarter trying to kick to 15 metre targets or blokes hand balling to their opponents after ignoring two blokes running by.
As for look at last week we played just as badly for most of the game, Port just couldn’t kill us off. It wasn’t our brilliance that won it that’s for sure.
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Be careful they will come after you fior bagging waterman .
