Test What ever happened to the gritty innings from a tail ender?

[PhatBoy]

Dear OP, what are you on about?

Did you not see that hard nosed, gritty, never say die innings from Cummings.

He was one half of Australia’s equal biggest stand in the first innings, at least

 

[PhatBoy]

To surpass that, Alderman also hung around with AB in the second test in the West Indies, 1984. Batted for 105 minutes, faced 69 balls, 21 n/o. Allowed AB to reach his century on the last ball of the match and Australia got a draw. Border made 98 n/o in the first innings and Dujon said it was a misjustice that he missed out getting twin centuries. Unfortunately no footage of it, but Border played one of the greatest innings to save a game against Marshall and Garner at their peak.

View attachment 1616646

Wayne Daniel was no mug either

 

[the_interloper]

I think number 11s should bat like Stuart Clark: block two and then try to hit sixes. Unless you're close to getting a draw or someone is in the 90s I'm ok with this.

 

[The 747]

Shane Warne said it, so it must be true.

Ian Chappell said the same.

 

[Rabish Binney]

Wayne Daniel was no mug either

wayne daniel six - Google Search

Must have been one hell of a hit, judging by how far out the boundary rope was.....

 

[ioppolo]

Starc has eight test fifties including a 99 but I can't remember the last time he made a half century. Hasn't been great with the bat for years now.

 

[big_e]

Starc has eight test fifties including a 99 but I can't remember the last time he made a half century. Hasn't been great with the bat for years now.

2019 Ashes.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Ian Chappell said the same.

Warne and Chappelli eh, the two super unselfish guys responsible for setting up the famous Team First culture at the Melbourne Stars.

It'd be like Lay Down Sally calling the bowman a quitter.

 

[corbies]

2019 Ashes.

And he's averaged 21 since that 50 so its not like he's really taken a big dive in his batting since then. He's barely been required to bat really.

 

[dumb]

I've mentioned a few times, but we've had at least one bat who averages 20+ in 8-11 for near on 30 years. Without Starc and Cummins falling away it sticks out. Reiffel, Lee, Johnson, Starc, Pattinson, Hauritz and others like Gillespie, Bichel, Harris, Brad Hogg, Peter Taylor, Damien Fleming who were all solid.
We've been spoilt for tail-end batsmen.

 

[PhatBoy]

I've mentioned a few times, but we've had at least one bat who averages 20+ in 8-11 for near on 30 years. Without Starc and Cummins falling away it sticks out. Reiffel, Lee, Johnson, Starc, Pattinson, Hauritz and others like Gillespie, Bichel, Harris, Brad Hogg, Peter Taylor, Damien Fleming who were all solid.
We've been spoilt for tail-end batsmen.

I agree but MOST teams have had that too.
Sri Lanka had a test centurion play 100 tests at #8 in Vaas. NZ had Vettori who at times was literally in their best 2-3 batsmen at 8 for a long time. SA had Pollock bat at 8 for a period, and players like Boje, Philander and Maharaj in the 15 years since.
India has Kumble for a long time, Harbhajan could whack it around.
Wasim Akram hit two centuries and was a specialist 8 for Pakistan for the better part of 20 years though they have struggled a bit more in the last decade or so.

Australia has definitely had a LOT of them but the days of most other sides being bunnies from 8-down probably died out a while ago too

 

[Blue1980]

Jack Leach flying the flag for the gritty tail end innings

 

[Tyberious Funk]

Ian Chappell said the same.

Ian Chappell hates Steve Waugh because the two of them are more alike than he wants to admit.

 

[The 747]

Ian Chappell hates Steve Waugh because the two of them are more alike than he wants to admit.

Er OK.

 

[Cursed Cat]

To surpass that, Alderman also hung around with AB in the second test in the West Indies, 1984. Batted for 105 minutes, faced 69 balls, 21 n/o. Allowed AB to reach his century on the last ball of the match and Australia got a draw. Border made 98 n/o in the first innings and Dujon said it was a misjustice that he missed out getting twin centuries. Unfortunately no footage of it, but Border played one of the greatest innings to save a game against Marshall and Garner at their peak.

View attachment 1616646

Yes yes little Allan Border and proud we all are of him ... (seriously)

but what of Tom Hogan on that scorecard?

Allan Borders feats in that Test are rightfully legendary, but wasn't Hogan an off-spinner? For him to come in presumably as a nightwatchman (??) and peel off 38 from 49 presumably very fast balls is a fair effort.
Pulled off another two scores above 40 against the Windies in his 7 Tests total, so that's a fair effort.

 

[gordo2016]

Yes yes little Allan Border and proud we all are of him ... (seriously)

but what of Tom Hogan on that scorecard?

Allan Borders feats in that Test are rightfully legendary, but wasn't Hogan an off-spinner? For him to come in presumably as a nightwatchman (??) and peel off 38 from 49 presumably very fast balls is a fair effort.
Pulled off another two scores above 40 against the Windies in his 7 Tests total, so that's a fair effort.

Yes Cursed, Hogan was an off spinner but could handle the bat ok. From what I recall of him, he liked to play a few shots, not really your typical nightwatchman who was just trying to hang in there. Probably the right method against that pace attack for a tailender. Score some runs while you can, because they will get you sooner rather than later.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Yes Cursed, Hogan was an off spinner but could handle the bat ok. From what I recall of him, he liked to play a few shots, not really your typical nightwatchman who was just trying to hang in there. Probably the right method against that pace attack for a tailender. Score some runs while you can, because they will get you sooner rather than later.

awesome - appreciate your recollections!

 

[The 747]

Yes Cursed, Hogan was an off spinner but could handle the bat ok. From what I recall of him, he liked to play a few shots, not really your typical nightwatchman who was just trying to hang in there. Probably the right method against that pace attack for a tailender. Score some runs while you can, because they will get you sooner rather than later.

Unfortunately during that era some of our spinners were better bats than bowlers. Mo Matthews comes to mind.

 

[big_e]

Posted in a different thread but probably more relevant here. Actual stats about batting averages of tailenders through the decades.

For those who like facts, here are the batting averages of batters 8-11, sorted by decade.

For all tests -

View attachment 1622780


And for Australia only -

View attachment 1622781

Batting averages for tailenders this decade are certainly down, but for Australia, at least, they are higher than the 60s, 70s and 80s, and a touch lower than the 90s.

For what it's worth, the global batting average of tailenders since the IPL started in April 2008 is 15.79, compared to the all-time average of 15.25.

 

[Coops93]

I think the role of a tail ender has just shifted a bit these days. They don't go in with the mentality of hanging around, they go in trying to jag a few runs.

Power hitting has come into the game and fast bowlers in particular have benefitted from it in the sense that they are typically bigger, stronger and given their athletic profiles tend to have explosive power in the upper body/shoulder which means hitting boundaries and sixes isn't that difficult for them physically. Technically they're not excellent but you don't need to be technically excellent to club a six or 2 over mid wicket.

India are probably the only team in the world right now that has a tail with genuine hanging around ability. Most other countries tails tend to hit or get out. Leach is probably one of the only old school tail enders that just tries to block everything these days, and you could argue that lost them the test the other day (though him blocking it out also helped keep them in it, and it definitely helped vs us years ago, so swing and roundabouts here).

 

[Trojan90]

I think the role of a tail ender has just shifted a bit these days. They don't go in with the mentality of hanging around, they go in trying to jag a few runs.

Power hitting has come into the game and fast bowlers in particular have benefitted from it in the sense that they are typically bigger, stronger and given their athletic profiles tend to have explosive power in the upper body/shoulder which means hitting boundaries and sixes isn't that difficult for them physically. Technically they're not excellent but you don't need to be technically excellent to club a six or 2 over mid wicket.

India are probably the only team in the world right now that has a tail with genuine hanging around ability. Most other countries tails tend to hit or get out. Leach is probably one of the only old school tail enders that just tries to block everything these days, and you could argue that lost them the test the other day (though him blocking it out also helped keep them in it, and it definitely helped vs us years ago, so swing and roundabouts here).

Exactly this.

I imagine some thought has gone into it, and the tail going for quick runs (bonus runs) rather than trying to hang around has more value to the team. Obviously this would be dependent on the exact situation but in general. Thinking if a number 10-11 has average 20 ball lifespan, then better to score 20 off 15 than survive for 5 off 25.

 

[Gough]

I think the role of a tail ender has just shifted a bit these days. They don't go in with the mentality of hanging around, they go in trying to jag a few runs.

Power hitting has come into the game and fast bowlers in particular have benefitted from it in the sense that they are typically bigger, stronger and given their athletic profiles tend to have explosive power in the upper body/shoulder which means hitting boundaries and sixes isn't that difficult for them physically. Technically they're not excellent but you don't need to be technically excellent to club a six or 2 over mid wicket.

India are probably the only team in the world right now that has a tail with genuine hanging around ability. Most other countries tails tend to hit or get out. Leach is probably one of the only old school tail enders that just tries to block everything these days, and you could argue that lost them the test the other day (though him blocking it out also helped keep them in it, and it definitely helped vs us years ago, so swing and roundabouts here).

That's just returning to what the tailender did before Steve Waugh changed the thinking about their role.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

I agree but MOST teams have had that too.
Sri Lanka had a test centurion play 100 tests at #8 in Vaas. NZ had Vettori who at times was literally in their best 2-3 batsmen at 8 for a long time. SA had Pollock bat at 8 for a period, and players like Boje, Philander and Maharaj in the 15 years since.
India has Kumble for a long time, Harbhajan could whack it around.
Wasim Akram hit two centuries and was a specialist 8 for Pakistan for the better part of 20 years though they have struggled a bit more in the last decade or so.

Australia has definitely had a LOT of them but the days of most other sides being bunnies from 8-down probably died out a while ago too

I think your last paragraph is very important, tail Enders across the board have improved, making decent tail end batters look comparatively average. For all the rose glasses, no one has mentioned Alan Donald, Aaron Mullaly or Chris ‘the phantom’ Martin.

 

[Falconista]

Lyon's 34(96) today was extremely impressive along with a streaky 41 from Murphy.
To go from 7/387 to 480 all out is a fantastic late order contribution.

 

[10Dulkar]

NZ vs ENG Cricket Scorecard, 2nd Test at Christchurch, March 30 - April 03, 2018

Get cricket scorecard of 2nd Test, NZ vs ENG, England in Australia and New Zealand 2017/18 at Hagley Oval, Christchurch dated March 30 - April 03, 2018.

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This effort from Sodhi and Wagner was legendary.