What I Reckon with Tony Lynn 15 - Closing Down Sale.

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Laphroaig said:
So you are of the opinion that things the AFL decides to do are therefore by completely OK, and exempt from criticism?

Interesting concept, that. Brave call.

And I think your prediction of no AFLW will come to pass within 5 years.
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I think the AFL are a bunch of rent seeking plodders - but that is another story.

Your arguments are demonstrably 'weak' ( that is internet speak for calling your arguments exactly what they are - piss and wind )

I've given you plenty of argument to respond to - you keep puffing on about substandard this versus merit that - whilst conveniently ignoring what doesn't suit your narrative.
 
Laphroaig said:
For somebody prepared to denigrate opinions that don't meet your preconceptions, you are remarkably ill informed.
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Please provide examples, happy to apologise and change my posting style to avoid this in the future as it certainly not my intention.

At the end of 2016, the AFLW players rejected the AFL offer and conducted a loud public campaign, resulting in a negotiated solution based on the AFL rookie list pay rate.

Which I find difficult to describe as "unfair" for a group that generated no income, in fact operates at a substantial loss.

In 2019 , amid an ongoing campaign for "fair" pay, the AFLW players pay case has increased that 2017 base rate by around 75%.

Are you suggesting that AFLW players are not involved in their own pay cases, and that decision to reject the 2017 offer in particular just materialised unbidden out of a hole in the space time continuum?
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Pretty sure the AFLW had sponsors and negotiated payment for the TV rights. Surely this counts as revenue like it does when the male players negotiate their pay deals. As stated previously, the AFL was willing to subsidise the initial year or two of the competition until it established itself.

Calling something what it is does not constitute name calling, whether you like the calling of a spade a spade or not.
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You have referred to the AFLW as a “shower of shit”. That is your opinion, doesn’t make it a fact. What you are calling a spade doesn’t look like one to me.

Comparisons can be a dicey exercise, but the situation of an apprentice tradesman is illustrative. The apprenticeship system exists to provide skilled workers at some time in the future.

Apprentices get paid a pittance because:
  1. They lack the skill required to complete quality work
  2. They actually cost the boss money, because the time spent instructing and supervising them generates no income
If we apply the logic commonly trotted out to illustrate that AFLW players pay is "unfair"; then we must conclude that a poorly skilled apprentice should be getting the same hourly rate as a qualified, income generating tradesman (AFLW pay in 2019). We must also conclude that this is still "unfair" because a master craftsman gets paid more than that.
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The apprentices are in the lower leagues and feed into the AFLW system once they have learned sufficient skills. Those that make it to an AFLW list are the qualified tradesmen of their craft and have every right to expect to be paid accordingly. The marquee players are the Masters.
 

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I bleed Blue said:
I reckon with that one post Tony turned the heat up on this thread.

Reckon I'm keen to hear his next reckon.
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Hopefully that silenced some of the knockers who were getting lippy and questioning this thread. For those interested all season we will challenge each other. Agree, disagree, get our blood boiling but have some fun and good discussion. Game on everyone.
 
Tony Lynn 15 said:
This is where it becomes emotive though right. To JustaBattler if you think me saying I don't enjoy the AFLW means I am being chauvinistic, then what does this mean. I think AFL X is the greatest load of tripe that has been produced. At least in the first season it was club based but now it is something like the World XI from World Series Cricket. It is absolute rubbish and I won't be watching it.

Same opinion but it won't carry the sexist tag will it?

All I have ever said about AFLW is the hype does not match the product right now. That is not the players fault. I personally believe the launch should have been a tad softer to let it grow and find it's feet first.
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I don't care wether you watch it or don't - and show me where I called you or anyone else a 'sexist' ? FFS some of you soft ****s are whiny sooky lala runts at times...:'(

I just thought I'd lay out my reasons why the AFL is going to have to lay out serious cashola in order to build this AFLW up over a long period of time and why people who reckon women shouldn't paid until they are much better (whatever that means) are being sillies.
 
JustaBattler said:
I don't care wether you watch it or don't - and show me where I called you or anyone else a 'sexist' ? FFS some of you soft ****s are whiny sooky lala runts at times...:'(

I just thought I'd lay out my reasons why the AFL is going to have to lay out serious cashola in order to build this AFLW up over a long period of time and why people who reckon women shouldn't paid until they are much better (whatever that means) are being sillies.
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****ing calm down Rambo.
 
JustaBattler said:
Actually tbh - I dont get the premise of this thread- if you have designed it to be a catch all for anything then all you are doing is creating a sub forum within a forum ...

inefficient.
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:thumbsu: :thumbsu:
 
Tony Lynn 15 said:
******* calm down Rambo.
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Whole board is not about your individual opinion mate.

Before you ask Yes I moved your thread.

Main board is not about what individual posters think in stand alone threads and we gave it a chance but this board is the better place for it.
 

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Laphroaig said:
Don't rewrite my opinions to suit your platform, thanks.

If you can't or won't wrap your head around the idea of rewarding on the basis of merit being more equitable than rewarding on the basis or PR spin, then that's you.

Just don't bother reinventing what I say to make it into something else.
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If you can't or won't wrap your head around the idea that women's sport needs artificial stimulus to overcome the systematic disadvantages they've received in funding and support over many, many decades and instead advocate for only supporting them based on some self-defined example of merit, then that's you.

See, we can both be patronising.

You assume, incorrectly, that I don't understand your position. I have in the past uttered words that sound remarkably similar to what you've written. However, over a number of years my opinion has changed; having two daughters probably has something to do with it. I've come to recognise the inherent imbalance in society and that without artificial intervention, the status quo will be maintained, and with it, women will continue to be second class (sporting) citizens. I accept that you don't agree with this, but don't for a minute think I can't wrap my head around your position.

With that being said, and as poor as some of their skills are, these are the best female AFL footballers in the country. They are playing their sport at the highest level. Suggesting they should be better before receiving the support they are currently receiving is rubbish. It also would most like preclude them from ever achieving the supposedly level of skill that you demand.

And we know this to be true. You keep using it as an example. Women who have played sport at an elite level who can't make a living, have to fundraise for their major competitions, and never see their sport televised, or even results reported on the news. So we know that we can't rely on women's sport organically receiving the recognition it deserves. Intervention is necessary. The AFL is an organisation that has the facility to do so.

You argue that AFLW is not merit based. Fine. What do you think should be done to address the disadvantages inherent in women's sport in general?
 
Tony Lynn 15 said:
This is where it becomes emotive though right. To JustaBattler if you think me saying I don't enjoy the AFLW means I am being chauvinistic, then what does this mean. I think AFL X is the greatest load of tripe that has been produced. At least in the first season it was club based but now it is something like the World XI from World Series Cricket. It is absolute rubbish and I won't be watching it.

Same opinion but it won't carry the sexist tag will it?

All I have ever said about AFLW is the hype does not match the product right now. That is not the players fault. I personally believe the launch should have been a tad softer to let it grow and find it's feet first.
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That being said, its pretty easy to tell who doesn't like the spectacle and who doesn't like the game, sport, wants it to fail and are more than happy to stick the boots in to women, purely because they are women playing AFL.
 
ODNBlue said:
You assume, incorrectly, that I don't understand your position. I have in the past uttered words that sound remarkably similar to what you've written. However, over a number of years my opinion has changed; having two daughters probably has something to do with it. I've come to recognise the inherent imbalance in society and that without artificial intervention, the status quo will be maintained, and with it, women will continue to be second class (sporting) citizens. I accept that you don't agree with this, but don't for a minute think I can't wrap my head around your position.
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Sometimes i wish i could like a post 100 times.
 
Laphroaig said:
At the end of 2016, the AFLW players rejected the AFL offer and conducted a loud public campaign, resulting in a negotiated solution based on the AFL rookie list pay rate.
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Yes it was rejected based on the amount of hours they were expected to commit to their roles. The way you speak sounds like they are on $50,000 per season.


Laphroaig said:
In 2019 , amid an ongoing campaign for "fair" pay, the AFLW players pay case has increased that 2017 base rate by around 75%.
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So what, its now 2019 and that 2017 rate was $8,000, its now a whopping 13,000. Pay is supposed to go up each year and in order to get that extra money, their contracted training hours went up too.
 
Tony Lynn 15 said:
Hopefully that silenced some of the knockers who were getting lippy and questioning this thread. For those interested all season we will challenge each other. Agree, disagree, get our blood boiling but have some fun and good discussion. Game on everyone.
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favourite post so far......
 
Tony Lynn 15 said:
Hopefully that silenced some of the knockers who were getting lippy and questioning this thread. For those interested all season we will challenge each other. Agree, disagree, get our blood boiling but have some fun and good discussion. Game on everyone.
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Chism said:
Whole board is not about your individual opinion mate.

Before you ask Yes I moved your thread.

Main board is not about what individual posters think in stand alone threads and we gave it a chance but this board is the better place for it.
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Fair enough Chism

Just to clarify this thread was never about my 'individual opinion', even the thread title outlines that. 'With' meaning I am just one of the many who will have an opinion. Twenty odd pages in with many, many people posting their opinions would be testament to that. All I was doing was providing topics to discuss.

My confusion with this board will forever continue, I had no idea this place was 'not about what individual posters think in stand alone threads'. I guess I should have just conformed and stalked players twitter accounts and posted that stuff.

Anyway buddy, keep on modding. I know it isn't an easy job and this isn't personal. I appreciate you stepping in and taking the heat for the one this truly upsets.

I will be leaving it alone now, good luck for the season and whatever the future holds.

Best wishes,

TL15.
 
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