Chief
~ Shmalpha ~
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www.covidresearch.net for annotated studies you might like to use when debunking the Covid-deniers and anti-vaxxers.
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NO TROLLS What is the actual case against COVID Vaccination?
- Thread starter The_Wookie
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- Jul 2, 2013
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When this Dr chooses to believe and state that the vaccines are ineffective, it is his judgement. And given ineffective/effective is rarely quantified in discussions, his belief, like yours, like mine is more subjective than objective.
In November 2020, Pfizer stated their vaccine was 95% effective after one dose.
( source: https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-r...ntech-conclude-phase-3-study-covid-19-vaccine )
"Primary efficacy analysis demonstrates BNT162b2 to be 95% effective against COVID-19 beginning 28 days after the first dose"
Eight months later and Israel partnered with Pfizer were reporting that about 6 months after 2 doses, the effectiveness was down to 16%.
( source: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveb...is-only-40-effective-at-halting-transmission/ )
This data assisted Pfizer to get approval for booster shots.
We are now hearing booster shots are recommended every 3 to 4 months.
My point is, effective and ineffective descriptions are subjective terms often used, but not quantified by either parties when discussing Covid-19 vaccines.
The same can be said about their safety, when websites that look at vaccine safety like ausvaxsafety.org.au (funded by the Australian Health department) show that Moderna's second dose has 65% reporting adverse reactions and 3.2% requiring medical attention from a GP or emergency, while other established vaccinations like Pneumococcal, Shingles and Influenza sit around 7% reporting adverse reactions and 0.3% seeking medical attention. Again, safe is a subjective term rarely quantified in discussions.
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I disagree that these terms aren't often quantified.
They're quantified on here all the time.
It's regularly clarified in threads over and over again.
The stat around 'GP or emergency room treatment' is very misleading.
Heaps of people go to the GP for a common cold. Which as we know, is a complete waste of everyone's time. Not long ago, Joe Hockey wanted to charge people $5 to visit the GP, because so many people rock up when they don't need to.
So going to the GP after you have had your Vax doesn't really mean shit. It all depends on what the issue actually was, and what the GP had to do.
Same goes for the emergency room. It's very misleading to use that term generally, as they are used by many as GPs these days.
So again, without knowing what the diagnosis and treatment was, those numbers don't she'd any light on whether the vaccine is safe or not.
This is just classic 'do your own research' and 'don't believe everything you read' hypocrisy.
Spruiking worthless stats without understanding them because they sound scary is exactly what the anti-vaxers and COVID deniers accuse everyone else of all the time.
- Jul 2, 2013
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As I said, subjective.
- Jul 2, 2013
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You are missing the point.
Those stats are from the same website using the same type of surveys to people who have had Covid-19, Influenza, Shingles and Pneumococcal.
But there is a stark increase in adverse reactions for the Covid-19 vaccines.
Go have a good look at that website's safety data ( https://ausvaxsafety.org.au/safety-data ).
If you compare the Covid-19 results to other established vaccines, you will see they are not as safe.
Again, the word safe and effective are not being quantified when used in discussions.
- Jul 2, 2013
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You saying "It's objectively crap" is a subjective opinion.
You're not quantifying those words in your posts - but as I said, they quantified and put in context almost on a daily basis it seems like! And that's because people cone on here claiming that the vax's don't work, and they're unsafe.
So it's been a constant battle to ensure that those terms are quantified.
If you know what they're designed to do, and how they work - then they're effective.
Granted people's definition of safe can vary, but given the context is aligned to the impact of the virus itself, and other vaccines - then it is clearly safe.
No vaccine is safe.
AstraZeneca has been banned to certain age groups because of the side effects associated with it.
I am not implying copious amounts of water being drank is safe and highly effective for the human body.
You said vaccines are safe.
For a small proportion of the world population, no, they certainly are not.
Apples and oranges.
- Jun 22, 2008
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Unless of course their occupation is one that's mandated to be jabbed to continue working.
- Jun 22, 2008
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I actually work with a few that this describes down to a T.
Everything is a straight up NO and then it's down to negotiation, it's tiring and wasteful.
I've worked with people that have now forfeited their livelihoods because either our employer or the WA state government aren't going to tell them what to do. I try to point out to them that practically every day we come in to work, our employer is telling us what to do, when we're in a car driving and we follow traffic signs / lights / signals etc, we're being told what to do.
I absolutely agree with the link you've posted but can't grasp the logic.
One bloke I work with point blank refused it and has now lost his job. He said that at some point he would get it because he's single and likes to travel, he wants to go back to Las Vegas and New York and other places in the future, I asked him why he didn't just get it now, keep his job and travel and he just looked at me and said, 'because no one tells me what to do'. It was at that instant I thought he was a **** stick and lost any bit of sympathy I may have had for him.
Another, married, 3 kids, the youngest 6 months old, the eldest is starting primary school this year and a large mortgage. He was already a conspiracy theorist before COVID came alone. When it did arrive it was all a bit of a laugh but as time went on he just kept painting himself into a smaller and smaller corner with the statements he was making. In the end he was absolutely terrified at the thought of having it injected into him. He said he would look like a complete idiot if he backed down and got it, I said to him it wasn't about him, he had a family to consider, take one for the family. He no longer has a job, he has put the house on the market and he won't get a job doing anything decent because the industries of 75% of WA's workforce are all mandated to be fully vaccinated and now to have the booster too.
Another, who really surprised me now no longer has a job. He flew back to Qld after 12 years of hard, loyal service (he reminded me of the character of Boxer the draught horse in Animal Farm), he was turfed to the curb. We were having a chat about it one day, I really like and respect this bloke, and he just wouldn't get it. He started reeling off all the ingredients and the bad things about them and so on and so on. He has a couple of kids a couple of years older than mine, I asked him if he had them vaccinated when they were born and as toddlers, he said of course he did, but that was different because they couldn't give informed consent for themselves. I said ok, what did you base your consent on, he said years of proof of their use and success. I asked him what was in them all, he asked how the hell would he know. I said well you seem to know every single ingredient in the COVID vaccines to make an informed choice for yourself, if you didn't know what was in MMR and polio vaccines, why would you let them be injected or let them swallow them and he said he based it on medical advice.
And there it was, I asked him then why the hell he wouldn't accept medical advice in this instance and he just looked at me and didn't have an answer. Very sad. I later found out that his mother in the UK had been vaccinated and died very shortly afterwards, she was in her 80s and he blamed her death on the vaccine, he was terrified of getting it.
Plenty of others trying to use all their leave to try and wait it out, waiting for someone to have a miracle court win somewhere but our employer has just said that unless you already had leave booked, they wouldn't be approving any new leave. The date for people to be double dosed has come and gone (01.01.2022) so I guess they're all gone now. Work will look different when I get back, there is going to be holes everywhere or new people who are totally unsuited to the roles but at the moment, beggars can't be choosers.
- Jun 22, 2008
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They're anti-vaxx, they know they're not getting it, they don't look up information about why they should get it, they look up information to confirm to them that they're right not to get it. They're stalling waiting for some major calamity to strike the vaccinated or for governments to overturn mandates. They'll get NOVAVAX or whichever one as soon as it's available in this country but when it is, someone will get a sore arm from the injection so they will then 'wait for more information to make an informed decision'.
- Jun 22, 2008
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Letter from a Doctor to a Health Minister
To:
The Minister of Health
State Government
Queensland, Australia
Dear Ms D’Ath,
I retired from clinical practice on 15 December 2021.
My family and some of my colleagues have commented “Well, it’s time you took a break! After all you have three university degrees, two fellowships and three licentiates and have been in full-time practice for 41 years - working as a rural generalist on 4 continents, predominantly in remote locations in third-world countries, with the last 13 years serving the rural communities in Australia, latterly as a locum Senior Medical Officer in southeast Queensland, always putting your patients and community ahead of your family and your social life. It’s about time you had a rest.”
Perhaps they are right, but the question is – am I ready to retire? After all, I am only 63, and feel I probably have a few years left in me to effectively serve the people of Queensland.
So, why am I retiring, then? Because of your non-evidence-based vaccine mandate for health workers. Apparently, at midnight on the 14 December 2021, I was meant to turn into a mutant blob of super-spreading coronavirus slime that would be a terrible threat to my colleagues and patients. You may be relieved to hear that that did not happen. In fact, I have never felt healthier.
It has been interesting to see the rise of evidence-based medicine during my career, something we have all embraced and accepted as the correct and safest way to manage healthcare issues, whether in the individual patient, or at the population level. But many of us have stood mouths-agape to see the principles of evidence-base being thrown into the garbage as politicians have disastrously taken on the role of managing health care during the current coronavirus problem.
But I would like to thank you for the opportunity to retire a little earlier than planned. It will give me the opportunity to spend more time with my wife and my family, and to catch up on my long-neglected hobbies of cycling, bushwalking, bird watching and photography – unless you plan to slap a QR code on the tail feathers of every rainbow lorikeet in the state? Oops, shouldn’t have given you the idea.
And as I sit quietly on one of Queensland’s many beautiful beaches, I will smile to myself knowing with certainty that you too will soon be forced to retire.
How do I know this? Well, Queenslanders may have been scared, bullied, coerced and, yes, forced into lining up to receive their COVID shots, but they are not stupid. As the news of the rapid crumbling of the pillars of coronavirus control that your policies have forced onto them continue to seep past the firewall of our local media and into the general population, they will realise that they have been seriously duped. I can only pray that their reaction will be one of peaceful protest, but this protest will ultimately be voiced at the polling stations. I don’t know what you did before you went into politics, but I hope you were better at it than you have been at “ministering” our health.
Those “pillars of coronavirus control”? Masking, social distancing, mass screening of asymptomatic people with a PCR test run at a cycle threshold that is way too high, QR codes, hand sanitisers, lockdowns, Perspex partitions, not to mention the alleged “vaccine,” have long been known to not stop the spread of a coronavirus, and the evidence continues to accumulate daily, both through proper journal-published studies, but also just by looking at world experience as the virus continues to thrive. And all we hear is the same on-repeat demands from you and your experts – more masks, more lockdowns, more social distancing, and why not have another dose of our “vaccine” – surely it will work this time? I don’t think so – coronaviruses are experts at adapting to their environment, and they don’t even have a frontal lobe.
The “Vaccine.” Surely by now you are getting embarrassed trying to spin this narrative? No doubt you have heard the old joke that you can always tell when a politician is lying because their lips move? Well, the too-oft repeated Anna/Yvette/Steve/Jeanette-then-Peter-now-John mantra of “Get the vaccine – it’s safe, effective and free!” must be a candidate for the Guinness Book for the most lies contained in one short sentence! Let’s dissect it:
1. “Vaccine” – time to call it what it really is – an experimental gene-based therapy that had to be labelled as a “vaccine” in order to receive emergency use authorisation.
2. “Safe” – a quick look at our own TGA website should be enough to convince you otherwise. But if it isn’t enough, try the US VAERS, The UK’s Yellow Card system and their Office of National Statistics, or the EUs EUDRAVigilance and EuroMOMO. Not to mention the surge of unexplained deaths being reported world-wide amongst vaccinated people.
I have read the “Vaccination Consent” form that people are given to read and sign at your vaccination centres. The fact that the not-insignificant risk of death, myocarditis, cardiovascular, cerebrovascular and other neurological damage are not mentioned is nothing short of criminal. What happened to “informed consent”?
1. “Effective” – Seriously? Do you believe that Queensland’s experience of the lack of real benefit of this “vaccine” will be any different to the experiences of the rest of the world, where reports come in on a daily basis of the failure of the “vaccine” to deliver what was promised. I know Australia is known as “the lucky country” but I think it will take more than luck for us to experience any more efficacious a result from this “vaccine” than the rest of the world has.
2. “Free” - yeah, right – the taxpayer will be paying for this for decades to come.
No, the only thing that has kept Queensland relatively COVID-free has been the strict border closures. But at what cost? Businesses destroyed, families torn asunder, and the human psyche stretched beyond its limits.
The above policies have indeed resulted in a two-tier society: 1) the vaccinated who have been led to believe they are “protected” (I have had multiple vaccinated patients tell me this) but are actually not, and 2) those who have exercised their freedom of choice not to be vaccinated, but who have been deprived of the chance to achieve natural immunity due to your attempts to quash a coronavirus.
Congratulations! As you and your colleagues pat yourselves on your collective backs and brag about a “world-leading” approach to the coronavirus problem, what you have actually produced is a community with 0% herd immunity and 100% herd insanity. We are like a fresh agar plate in a laboratory waiting to be infected. But anyone with a firm understanding of virology, immunology, epidemiology, sociology and human psychology could have told you this would happen. I presume you have a panel of experts that advise you? They would have known this would happen. So, they have either not advised you correctly, or you have chosen to ignore them – I don’t know which scenario frightens me more.
One of the basic tenets we get taught at medical school is what’s called the biopsychosocial model – each and every person is a unique mix of biology, psyche and their social environment. Everyone on the planet – that is 7+ billion very individual people. So, it’s no wonder that your carpet-bombing of every individual with “vaccines,” lockdowns, masks etc has failed. As has oft been said, we have moved from “one size fits all, to one size fits none.” And as history has shown, carpet-bombing always has the same result – death, despair, destruction, desolation and, eventually, public dissent and outrage.
The other huge worry is that the medical profession is not allowed to question any of your decisions for fear of being deregistered by AHPRA. What happened to the scientific norm of open debate? Must be hidden somewhere behind the façade of your emergency powers. Nobel prize-winning quantum physicist Richard Feynman once said “I would rather have questions that can’t be answered, than answers that can’t be questioned.” And General George Patton is reputed to have said “If everyone is thinking alike, then someone is not thinking.” So why are the medical profession not allowed to openly debate the way the COVID problem has been handled and the efficacy of the “vaccines”? And believe me, there are a growing number who are questioning. There is a large percentage of my colleagues and the nursing profession in your health service who have told me they would not have received the “vaccine” if it wasn’t for the fear of losing their livelihood. This is a tragic betrayal of their trust and vulnerability. Shame on you.
I was delighted to receive a letter in my post-box a couple of days ago, co-signed by the Prime Minister, the federal Minister of Health and the federal Chief Health Officer. It was an invite to step forward and get a booster dose of “vaccine.” It was reassuring to note that the letter stated that only one booster dose will be needed. That’s great to hear, especially as no-one on the planet really has any idea how effective or enduring boosters might be. If the experience of the results of the first two doses is anything to go on, please forgive me if I’m not convinced. Enclosed in that letter was another information sheet again reassuring Australia that the government had secured 150 million further doses of “vaccine.” Hmmm – only one booster dose needed, 150 million doses available…? 150 million divided by the eligible population of Australia equals…… silly me, one dose each of course! After all, why wouldn’t the politicians play as recklessly with the laws of mathematics as they have with the laws of our Constitution and Human Rights.
I noted with interest the comment you made in the notification you sent out to health staff when you announced the December 15 deadline for full vaccination – toward the end of the letter, you stated something along the lines that exceptions could be made in case of workforce shortage. Now, in a health service that is notoriously understaffed (except perhaps at the administrative level), where do you draw the line between “a little understaffed” and “severely understaffed”? Just yesterday I received an email from a recruiting company advertising locum Senior Medical Officer vacancies across the small rural government hospitals in Queensland – there were 67 such vacancies (I guess it’s 68 now). I just wanted you to know that I would be very happy to keep working – not so much for you, but for the under-serviced people of rural Queensland. In order to return to work, I wouldn’t expect an apology from yourself because I realise that politicians never apologise – they merely spin the facts and pass the blame onto someone, or something, else.
I realise that you are highly unlikely to ever read this letter – I suspect you have the junk filters set very high on your email account. Maybe it will be read by one of your underlings who is also likely to hit the “delete” button. I will send a copy to your boss, for what that’s worth. But I will also send copies to other politicians and interested parties who I know will read it and who do genuinely care for the citizens of Queensland and their basic human rights. Please note I have stated my full name, phone number, physical and email addresses at the top of the letter in the name of transparency and openness, concepts you may not be familiar with.
As I enjoy my enforced retirement, I wish you luck with what remains of your career – you are going to need it.
Yours truly,
Dr Simon Stilgoe
What it took from that is that he is 63 and has been in full time practice for for 41 years, so since the age of 22. Now I don't know what things were like in 1980 when he started full time practice or in the 70s when he was studying, but just having a cursory look at the time lines these days they are as follows :
If it was anything like that when he was studying and training then the timelines don't fit, unless of course he's actually Doogie Howser.
I didn't read any further past that bit because if that doesn't add up then the rest of it will just be bullshit too.
- Jun 22, 2008
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But he's been in full time practice for 41 years and is only 63. That means he must have started his PhD at 13 or 14 doesn't it?
Let's go over the figures today:
Queensland - 16,688 cases, 6 in ICU. Well under 0.1%.
ACT - 4795 active cases, 1 in ICU. Well under 0.1%.
Victoria - 31,461 cases, 52 in ICU. Less than 0.2%.
NSW haven't published active cases, but I suspect around 100k or so. 83 in ICU.
Overall, it's bugger all - vaccines are working.
Honestly, instead of governments going heavy handed enforcing vaccine mandates, they just need to sell the actual effect of vaccines. The sort of people that aren't convinced by governments telling them they have to do something are probably a lot more likely to be convinced by actual results.
Queensland - 16,688 cases, 6 in ICU. Well under 0.1%.
ACT - 4795 active cases, 1 in ICU. Well under 0.1%.
Victoria - 31,461 cases, 52 in ICU. Less than 0.2%.
NSW haven't published active cases, but I suspect around 100k or so. 83 in ICU.
Overall, it's bugger all - vaccines are working.
Honestly, instead of governments going heavy handed enforcing vaccine mandates, they just need to sell the actual effect of vaccines. The sort of people that aren't convinced by governments telling them they have to do something are probably a lot more likely to be convinced by actual results.
Taylor
Community Leader
- Moderator
- #100
This is a fair way to look at things on a broad scale. For almost everyone, except a small minority, it is safe - therefore it's safe.
Covid-19 meeting this definition is inconvenient. There's a threshold in there obviously.
It's looking like almost everyone who catches omicron is fine, this is very good news.
