What tangible onfield benefit do big rich clubs get from being big and rich these days?

[juss]

Essendon's planned upgrade to Windy Hill uses the same model as the Dogs and North have used/are using to get the Western Oval and Arden Street upgraded.

Leverage community links/access and the AFLW team for a major injection of taxpayer funds.

Which begs the question as to what real competitive advantage big rich clubs have over the smaller clubs now.

The days of Essendon/West Coast/Hawthorn being able to afford world class training facilities while smaller clubs had portables or used uni gyms and the like are long gone.

The footy department soft cap brought the heat out of the arms race there and the AFL used COVID spending cuts to cement in the equalisation.

It looks like the real competitive advantages are with clubs that can offer lifestyle and cultural benefits.

Geelong benefits massively from its location and the associated lifestyle. Brisbane has done very well in building a culture that players want to come to and/or not leave. GWS have rapidly built a strong culture that allows them to keep players they want and attract talent too.

Has footy's equalisation mechanism - and associated political/cultural factors like teams working out they can use W to squeeze taxpayers for cash - finally reached its goal where richer clubs don't actually get any tangible onfield advantage from their cash?

Pretty reasonable thought.
These days all AFL clubs have elite player well-being programs and access to facilities.

Soft caps and COVID reductions in spending also reduce any advantage.

Not to mention, the AFL distrubutes funds based on where they are needed, so there's no real advantage there.

Maybe they offer more security for roles for staff and to sell to their members/ member benefits?

I dont think there is any tangible on field benefit any more.

 

[The Warlord]

Pretty reasonable thought.
These days all AFL clubs have elite player well-being programs and access to facilities.

Soft caps and COVID reductions in spending also reduce any advantage.

Not to mention, the AFL distrubutes funds based on where they are needed, so there's no real advantage there.

Maybe they offer more security for roles for staff and to sell to their members/ member benefits?

I dont think there is any tangible on field benefit any more.

Imo Richmond are the first dynasty of the full equalisation era.

Built a core from the draft then adroitly traded and used free agency to build out the list.

Had to manage multiple big names and kept the salary cap well managed.

Famously faced raids on your top talent and fought them off. Fundamentally kept blokes you need to win three.

But also built out off field too. Went from flogging games to Cairns to the MCG's prime tenant rock. Did it with a solid plan. Didn't cycle through multiple coaches.

Focused on culture across the whole organisation and reaped the rewards. Leant heavily into the community angle, keen to get on W, worked with govt on Punt Road.

 

[juss]

Imo Richmond are the first dynasty of the full equalisation era.

Built a core from the draft then adroitly traded and used free agency to build out the list.

Had to manage multiple big names and kept the salary cap well managed.

Famously faced raids on your top talent and fought them off. Fundamentally kept blokes you need to win three.

But also built out off field too. Went from flogging games to Cairns to the MCG's prime tenant rock. Did it with a solid plan. Didn't cycle through multiple coaches.

Focused on culture across the whole organisation and reaped the rewards. Leant heavily into the community angle, keen to get on W, worked with govt on Punt Road.

For me as a Richmond fan, the recent success has highlighted one thing, get your shit right and house in order off field first, then on field success follows.

The people that change clubs start with the CEO, President and Coach.

Thinking of the thread, these days it's more of an even playing field on field once the back end can get the club structure and right people in place. Any clubs can do that now.

 

[James Colorado]

For me as a Richmond fan, the recent success has highlighted one thing, get your sh*t right and house in order off field first, then on field success follows.

The people that change clubs start with the CEO, President and Coach.

Thinking of the thread, these days it's more of an even playing field on field once the back end can get the club structure and right people in place. Any clubs can do that now.

Exactly what turned Geelong from mid-table to a powerhouse, Cook and Costa were just as important as Thompson and the onfield side of things, perhaps more so. Happened with us, too (notice that the louder Kennett gets, the further away from the flag we seem?).

 

[FRUMPY]

Carlton have no problem being a destination club in recent years despite being rather disappointing on it.

Of course we are, players can get big money over a lot of years, knowing they can turn up unfit and play ordinary football

Easy money.

Sent from my CPH2005 using Tapatalk

 

[HairyO]

Certainly being able to offer playing in front of big crowds in marquee match ups is a drawcard for some players.

Was interesting though that Bobby Hill said he wanted to play in the Dreamtime game itself, rather than the big crowds.

Again, cultural stuff coming to the fore.

Saying that is easy, but do players really want that over winning flags?

Im sure his pay going up 50% also had a little to do with it.

Carlton have probably traded in more players than any other team over the last few years. How is that explained by anything other than $$$ ?

 

[The Warlord]

Saying that is easy, but do players really want that over winning flags?

Im sure his pay going up 50% also had a little to do with it.

Carlton have probably traded in more players than any other team over the last few years. How is that explained by anything other than $$$ ?

Carlton trading in players is about cap space

 

[HairyO]

Carlton trading in players is about cap space

I thought it was the return of the brown paper bags.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I thought it was the return of the brown paper bags.

Even the bags are sponsored by Visy.

 

[The Warlord]

For me as a Richmond fan, the recent success has highlighted one thing, get your sh*t right and house in order off field first, then on field success follows.

The people that change clubs start with the CEO, President and Coach.

Thinking of the thread, these days it's more of an even playing field on field once the back end can get the club structure and right people in place. Any clubs can do that now.

Totally. Getting the back end right is a non negotiable.

I think the difference is now clubs have worked out that with the safety net of equalisation they don't need to all try and grow to be The Biggest And Richest, they can work to make their club sustainable in its unique market and maximise its distinct advantages.

North and the Dogs were essentially forced into the no pokies community engagement model when our own pokies fell over.

Turns out we landed arse backwards - with a LOT of hard work too - in to what has become the model for Victorian clubs of no pokies, social and community engagement, getting taxpayers to fund major redevelopments of facilities.

What to me is really interesting is the wheel seems to be turning again and the smaller clubs are now leveraging that government influx to build themselves major non footy revenue streams/financial security.

The Dogs have got government to give them not just cash but land too, which they're gunna commercialise. Very valuable inner west real estate.

North appears to have got the Arden Street Precinct redevelopment shaped in such a way that we can do similar around the new Metro station and that whole inner city infill.

 

[The Warlord]

I thought it was the return of the brown paper bags.

The days of big time simple rorting of the cap are over.

You have be creative and smart like the Bombers have done and legitimise it.

 

[The Warlord]

Exactly what turned Geelong from mid-table to a powerhouse, Cook and Costa were just as important as Thompson and the onfield side of things, perhaps more so. Happened with us, too (notice that the louder Kennett gets, the further away from the flag we seem?).

Hawthorn did so well in that rebuild from near death phase - four flags, major wealth.

But now having DONE it, the challenge is to adapt to a new era of a potentially long rebuild and a very different culture among how clubs operate.

The Hawks already missed the boat on the W revolution with significant opportunity costs.

Will be interesting to see how they deal with potentially losing Tassie to a new/quasi relocated team.

And I suspect the social licence for pokies at footy clubs is rapidly eroding to the point where very soon they'll be untenable.

Tbh is Kennett's bullish approach that keeps Hawthorn in the pokie game.

Hawthorn were a leader in how to run a footy club 2000-2020.

Will they be 2020-2040?

 

[HairyO]

The days of big time simple rorting of the cap are over.

You have be creative and smart like the Bombers have done and legitimise it.

All clubs have rich supporters who give jobs to players, WAGs, parents. Some are just more brazen and give the AFL the middle finger.

 

[dave10]

The days of big time simple rorting of the cap are over.

You have be creative and smart like the Bombers have done and legitimise it.

What’s interesting is looking at each clubs business model with the future in mind.

Each cluboperates a different model based on their unique economy. A few examples of unique economies leading to different business approaches is:

Essendon - Unique competitive strength: Coterie strength, sponsorship and high net worth support supplement a large supporter base

Richmond - A large and apparently passionate grass roots supporter base. Not as strong in sponsorship and coterie support as similar sized big clubs.

Carlton - Traditionaly strong business network and coterie support

These examples of unique big club attributes have led to different business models being implemented successfully (or otherwise).

Essendon has in the past been effective in marketing its large support to almost exceed expectations relative to on field performance in attendances, membership and sponsorship support. However, it hadn’t been as effective in acquiring new, non football related revenue streams to offset poor footy operations performance. Although as noted, it’s traditionally been strong in maximising footy related revenue streams and with its support from high net worth supporters has delivered strong and overall consistent financial returns. It doesn’t have $15-20M in revenue generated annually through non football revenue like Richmond or Carlton (or even Bulldogs). Thus, it’s total revenue line defies its actual true size when comparing annual reports.

The Windy Hill development addresses this ‘gap’ somewhat via new commercial opportunities to be unveiled (improved sports centre / cafes etc). The clubs grand plan at Tulla includes development of space on site for a community medical centre including imaging etc which will also provide a new commercial arm to its consolidated revenue.. That’s what I’ve been told anyway. Whatch this space!

Richmond has grown total revenue on the back of obvious success on field but also due to its commercial venture Aligned Leisure, which adds over $20M annually to its revenue line. This has traditionally hidden underperformance in sponsorship and commercial partnerships which traditionally haven’t been strengths of the Tigers busineess. When executed well these ventures safeguard poor on field performance. They can also obviously be a cash drain too…

Carltons strength in its networking ‘Carlton In Business’ supports a strong gaming and hospitality growth which generated around $20M (1/3 of its total revenue). Again, a very different business model to Essendon and Richmond.

A club like the Kangaroos is lean and mean whilst focussed now on delivering a strategic footprint at Arden Street as part of a wider community initiative as noted. The Bulldogs as mentioned are a small club operating a big business and they deserve great credit for morphing into a business model that defies its small operating scale status. A great story of how a small club can compete with the big boys.

Melboyrne has profited from the sale of its pokies venue at Bentleigh and now has $24M in a future fund. However it’s the only club yet to invest significant capital into a state of the art facility and community venue. No doubt it will be required to invest a large part of this future fund resource into whatever this grand plan is, with the help of government support. At the same time it will be hoping to make the most of its premiership to deliver strong operating performance the next 12-24 months to cement its financial security and establish a foothold in the ground as a ‘bigger’ club in the city precinct.

 

[The Warlord]

Melboyrne has profited from the sale of its pokies venue at Bentleigh and now has $24M in a future fund. However it’s the only club yet to invest significant capital into a state of the art facility and community venue. No doubt it will be required to invest a large part of this future fund resource into whatever this grand plan is, with the help of government support. At the same time it will be hoping to make the most of its premiership to deliver strong operating performance the next 12-24 months to cement its financial security and establish a foothold in the ground as a ‘bigger’ club in the city precinct.

Yeah, this the challenge for the Dees. They're all set for a generational period of success and re-activation of a strong latent supporter base, but they don't really have a central geographical focal point to do it.

There may be plans I'm unaware of though.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Is interesting how Essendon have been able to leverage that more than say Collingwood.

Richmond tend to play the big crowds at the G in general factor.

But the Dees also get Queen's Birthday, North and the Dogs should be able to turn Good Friday into something big.

In many ways, the blockbuster thing is a legacy of pre-equalisation when bigger clubs could throw their weight around more too.

Don’t know if this has already been mentioned. You could just imagine when say Dodoro is tapping up a player he needs from another club, Dodoro also providing him with a publicly acceptable reason as to why he wants to break his existing contract, so as to exert more pressure on the player’s current club to release him.

So when contracted Bobby Hill has a better offer from Essendon and thinks, hmmmm, nice contract offer, I’d love to take you up on that…..he publicly states baby on the way my cousin lives in Vic, Dreamtime game etc. I am sure GWS were all over it and this is why they didn’t release him.

I think the “destination club” idea is a myth. There isn’t any club who constantly attract players from other clubs other than they compromise some other area of their list to do so.

Cats recruit older players at the expense of having a better chance to compile a strong list of younger players.

Hawks did the same.

Blues are doing the same.

One player wants to play in front of big crowds. Another player doesn’t want so much intense media scrutiny. One loves living in a big vibrant city. Another wants to live in a quiet town in the hills or by the coast. One wants to play at a strong club. Another just wants to get a game and have a defined role in the team.

 

[Kwality]

the full equalisation era.

Pray tell, what is 'the full equalisation era' & how is it defined by time?

 

[Jack Green]

Don’t know if this has already been mentioned. You could just imagine when say Dodoro is tapping up a player he needs from another club, Dodoro also providing him with a publicly acceptable reason as to why he wants to break his existing contract, so as to exert more pressure on the player’s current club to release him.

So when contracted Bobby Hill has a better offer from Essendon and thinks, hmmmm, nice contract offer, I’d love to take you up on that…..he publicly states baby on the way my cousin lives in Vic, Dreamtime game etc. I am sure GWS were all over it and this is why they didn’t release him.

I think the “destination club” idea is a myth. There isn’t any club who constantly attract players from other clubs other than they compromise some other area of their list to do so.

Cats recruit older players at the expense of having a better chance to compile a strong list of younger players.

Hawks did the same.

Blues are doing the same.

One player wants to play in front of big crowds. Another player doesn’t want so much intense media scrutiny. One loves living in a big vibrant city. Another wants to live in a quiet town in the hills or by the coast. One wants to play at a strong club. Another just wants to get a game and have a defined role in the team.

Think your right. Be nice if we could do a survey of the players to see what are their motivations and preferences.
Geelong offering the big country town 200,000 with great surfing and fishing tourist spots just down the road I think has worked to their advantage. Melbourne at 5 million perhaps not everyone'e cup of tea, particularly for the country zone recruited kids.

St.Kilda moving back to Moorabbin recently , according to many of the player managers was attractive for players wanting to live bayside with beaches and cafes from Parkdale to Hampton, but quick commute to Moorabbin for training.

Suppose it's a lifestyle thing to a degree coupled with other factors like big club marquee games and the the successful culture of some clubs. The lure of playing for the club you supported as a kid , like Max King drafted or Jack Higgins traded to the Saints. might have a say as well.

 

[Jack Green]

Pray tell, what is the equalisation era & how is it defined by time?

That is a very good question.First AFL draft kicked off in the early 80's, with the first pick going to the then current wooden spooner.
The NFL in America had started their draft way back in 1936 in an attempt to reduce the dominance of continual contenders.

As the decades rolled on as the comp became national , more elaborate equalisation policies gradually came into play. But maybe the inaugural AFL draft 40 years ago was the start of the equalisation era.

 

[schmuttt]

Yeah, this the challenge for the Dees. They're all set for a generational period of success and re-activation of a strong latent supporter base, but they don't really have a central geographical focal point to do it.

There may be plans I'm unaware of though.

Club has talked about this for a couple of years and they said in August they’re looking to re develop Goschs paddock and looking to lock in some real estate for an actual training facility. Nothing concrete still but the current admin know it’s their primary focus. I agree that we’d be hoping for further on field success to help cement that position as we grow stronger financially.

 

[Kwality]

That is a very good question.First AFL draft kicked off in the early 80's, with the first pick going to the then current wooden spooner.
The NFL in America had started their draft way back in 1936 in an attempt to reduce the dominance of continual contenders.

As the decades rolled on as the comp became national , more elaborate equalisation policies gradually came into play. But maybe the inaugural AFL draft 40 years ago was the start of the equalisation era.

My mistake, the OP referred to the full equalisation era.

 

[Jack Green]

My mistake, the OP referred to the full equalisation era.

Yeah, got it- full equalisation.
Hard to define - 15 years ago AFL were doing priority picks - not so much these days . We do have some strong equalisation policies in place which make it impossible to stay up forever. The Chris Judd Visy deal ruling a good example of the AFL stepping in from time to time to reset the boundaries. What was that -12 years ago??
Very hard to define however. Hope someone else can offer some input.

 

[The Warlord]

Pray tell, what is 'the full equalisation era' & how is it defined by time?

Not playing your silly little just asking questions game that always always ends up with an enormo-sook about how the VFL was bankrupt in 1986 so that means four Melbourne clubs have to disappear in 2021 because "reasons".

 

[The Warlord]

Club has talked about this for a couple of years and they said in August they’re looking to re develop Goschs paddock and looking to lock in some real estate for an actual training facility. Nothing concrete still but the current admin know it’s their primary focus. I agree that we’d be hoping for further on field success to help cement that position as we grow stronger financially.

Yeah, had heard chat around Gosch's Paddock but didn't know enough to really comment.

 

[Jack Green]

Pretty reasonable thought.
These days all AFL clubs have elite player well-being programs and access to facilities.

Soft caps and COVID reductions in spending also reduce any advantage.

Not to mention, the AFL distrubutes funds based on where they are needed, so there's no real advantage there.

Maybe they offer more security for roles for staff and to sell to their members/ member benefits?

I dont think there is any tangible on field benefit any more.

Few years and stats relevant to the thread
It was 2015 the AFL introduced the soft cap on non- player footy expenditure. Considered one of the last remaining bastions of of inequality . Some of the wealthier clubs complained the measure was punishing success- which in a way it was.

2017 with a 6 year 2.5 billion broadcast deal , Gil declared it would give ' financial security' to the clubs.
Brisbane increased by $4 million a year, St.Kilda by 3.5 million a year . Hawthorn just $1 million a year.

It would appear you do get rewarded for incompetence somewhat . And penalised for being financially successful!