Where does Steve Smith rate?

[cricketnut14]

Javed Miandad was given out LBW 8 times in Pakistan. In comparison Bill Lawry was never given out LBW in Australia.

Didn't Greg Chappell refuse to go on overseas tours on several occasions?

only made himself unavailable for 2 tours (business commitments as he got older)
81 to england
82 to pakistan (lillee also made himself unavailable for this tour)

 

[therubbernub]

I wonder how this young guy is going to go? Shades of bradman?

 

[Trojan90]

I feel like Smith (especially before Lab came along) played a lot of selfless innings batting with the tail. Feel like his number could have been even better if not for this.

 

[The hands of stone]

After the BBL last night , best batsman ever

 

[Redline]

Funny to think against the Strikers when he played on. The ball slowly rolled onto hit the stumps early on in his innings and no bail fell off. Good players make the most of luck and he has made the most of it.

 

[Voice of the G]

After the BBL last night , best batsman ever

Not sure about the best but up there with the best.Bradman has the figures on the board with test cricket,uncovered wickets and no helmets but impossible to compare cricketers over 100 plus years of cricket.

 

[Partridge]

It's tricky to rate because on one hand his average is awesome but on other hand he never had to face West Indies bowling of late 70's and the 80's that Chappell and Border did. I rate some of the Border innings against the Windies as incredible. Just premium value in terms of rating because you are facing the hardest attack to survive against in my time of watching cricket.
It is also very hard to rate in terms of the bats they use now because the ball can fly for way less effort, which actually changes some of your approach to batting that you would not have the luxury of with a bat from a few decades back. I mean, I just giggle inside at a six like yesterday that Marnus had go for six behind the keeper with the bats now.

If I try to imagine what Smith would be like facing Garner, Holding, Roberts and Marshall of early 80's and it hard to imagine he survives with his technique against that lot. He would have to use the same bats of the time and fear he would be humbled like most batsmen would and struggle to average 30 against them. The reality is he could average 60 in his career and I will probably still take Border, Steve Waugh, Ponting and Greg Chappell over him. But the fact he gets in conversation with those guys is brilliant in itself. He's done absolutely brilliantly in this era and hope he can continue to be brilliant. Like , I do not think he could have done much more. He's batting has been awesome in this era and love his appetite to want to get better.

That's exactly how I look at it. You can't blame the players, you can only face who you are up against. But there have been so many changes in the last couple of decades and it has definitely tilted things towards the batsmen. Between the changes to bat technology, the shrinking of grounds (quite unnecessary too), flatter pitches, and more teams with crap bowling (Zimbabwe, Bangladesh), test runs just aren't as hard to make as they once were. Also a change in tactics - a fielding captain deciding to contain a batsman with tailenders was actually really, really rare then. The first time I remember it was when Border and Thomson nearly won the test in Melbourne in 1982/83. Now it's not only common it's expected. Great for a batsman though, at a certain point you know they're happy to just stop you hitting boundaries. Terrific way to play yourself into form.

So he's a fantastic player, but I still find it hard to go past Greg Chappell (and probably Ponting) in my lifetime. The attacks he faced were so much more difficult, and to average 53.86 THEN was really impressive.

 

[Westend]

Nice to see his new technique paying dividends for him

Stiller at the crease and his bottom hand moved around the handle giving him more power with shots

Fingers crossed he continues is good form even against the scorchers on sat night and continues that form into india/england

Love it that he has signed for Sussex for three matches before the Ashes

 

[Iceman!]

That's exactly how I look at it. You can't blame the players, you can only face who you are up against. But there have been so many changes in the last couple of decades and it has definitely tilted things towards the batsmen. Between the changes to bat technology, the shrinking of grounds (quite unnecessary too), flatter pitches, and more teams with crap bowling (Zimbabwe, Bangladesh), test runs just aren't as hard to make as they once were. Also a change in tactics - a fielding captain deciding to contain a batsman with tailenders was actually really, really rare then. The first time I remember it was when Border and Thomson nearly won the test in Melbourne in 1982/83. Now it's not only common it's expected. Great for a batsman though, at a certain point you know they're happy to just stop you hitting boundaries. Terrific way to play yourself into form.

So he's a fantastic player, but I still find it hard to go past Greg Chappell (and probably Ponting) in my lifetime. The attacks he faced were so much more difficult, and to average 53.86 THEN was really impressive.

Comparing across eras is incredibly hard but if you look at test averages between 1970 and 1984 (his test career) you have Miandad who averaged more, Richards who averaged almost identical numbers and Gavaskar and Boycott in touching distance.

Smith has no one close to him, Kumar is the closest although was across two eras. Outside of that it is Williamson.

Smith is streets ahead of anyone else from this era.

 

[corbies]

That's exactly how I look at it. You can't blame the players, you can only face who you are up against. But there have been so many changes in the last couple of decades and it has definitely tilted things towards the batsmen. Between the changes to bat technology, the shrinking of grounds (quite unnecessary too), flatter pitches, and more teams with crap bowling (Zimbabwe, Bangladesh), test runs just aren't as hard to make as they once were.

You must rate the bowlers with stellar records in todays game especially highly then?

I disagree with the idea that pitches are flatter now and opposition bowlers worse than Greg Chappell's era for example. From 1970-1984 (the period covering Chappell's international career) 43% of matches in Test cricket ended in draws (from 2010-now its 19%). A big part of that was how flat the pitches were and there's a heap of revisionist history that goes on in relation to this.

Smith has played a grand total of 2 matches v Zimbabwe and Bangladesh and if you watched those 2 matches you wouldn't be describing it as a flat pitch with crap bowling. It was a dustbowl with Bangladesh's spinners turning it square.

 

[Blue1980]

He may, but I would argue a batsman like Greg Chappell faced tougher conditions in terms of pitches and bowlers. Compare the Windies teams Smith faces compared with what Chappell endured. Smith has struggled against SA which has had arguably the best bowling attack during his time. He got a ton in Sydney on a flatty when other batters were dominating too. Also Chappell played in an era when there were very few batters averaging over 50. Labu has been just as prolific as Smith and then there are blokes like Root, Kohli and Williamson who've also been pretty consistent. In Chappell's era for instance there was only really Viv Richards, Gavaskar who benefited a bit by flatter tracks in India and Javed Miandad who was never given out LBW by his home umpires.

Smith has dominated series in India and England when most of our other batsmen were struggling to make any runs.

He struggled in SA 2018 before sandpaper gate, and in terms of struggling this time he had a 40 odd in tough conditions test 1, 85 with the flu in melb, then a century at the SCG.

I hold away form massively highly in how I rate batsmen, that’s what separates the good to very good with the great (which both smith and Chappell are).

Smith 64 average at home and 60 away is insane.

Chappell also managed 50+ both home and away.

 

[Blue1980]

It's such a shame he's onyl played 32 tests over the last 6 years, should have another 30 matches to his name and already be around 40 centuries.

This is what happens with a cricket board who invent BS excuses to not tour anywhere which isn’t England or India.

 

[Blue1980]

You proved just how good smith is when you use "struggle" and he still averages over 40 against that team on their home soil

Root, Kohli both average under 50 and only 5 players average over 50 of all current players and only 3 of them have played more than 20 Test (Smith, Williams, Labuschagne) the fact Smith not only averages 50+ but has averaged 60+ for 6 straight years speaks volumes of how dominate he is

Yes, it’s not like every man and his dog is averaging higher now. Batting has actually been tougher in general the last 5-6 years than anytime since the 80s.

 

[Blue1980]

Look at how few some of the guns player over the years though. Lillee only played 70.

How many did lillee miss with WSC? 15-20? He also had injuries in the early 70s to come back from and we didn’t play as many tests generally until the 80s.

 

[Blue1980]

That's exactly how I look at it. You can't blame the players, you can only face who you are up against. But there have been so many changes in the last couple of decades and it has definitely tilted things towards the batsmen. Between the changes to bat technology, the shrinking of grounds (quite unnecessary too), flatter pitches, and more teams with crap bowling (Zimbabwe, Bangladesh), test runs just aren't as hard to make as they once were. Also a change in tactics - a fielding captain deciding to contain a batsman with tailenders was actually really, really rare then. The first time I remember it was when Border and Thomson nearly won the test in Melbourne in 1982/83. Now it's not only common it's expected. Great for a batsman though, at a certain point you know they're happy to just stop you hitting boundaries. Terrific way to play yourself into form.

So he's a fantastic player, but I still find it hard to go past Greg Chappell (and probably Ponting) in my lifetime. The attacks he faced were so much more difficult, and to average 53.86 THEN was really impressive.

Tilted batsmen’s way in limited overs cricket. Tests, not so much. It’s not the 2000s anymore, the average per wicket last 5-6 years lower than anytime I think since the 80s or a period of the 90s.

In tests, bowling attacks are generally stronger than batting line ups currently.

 

[Blue1980]

You must rate the bowlers with stellar records in todays game especially highly then?

I disagree with the idea that pitches are flatter now and opposition bowlers worse than Greg Chappell's era for example. From 1970-1984 (the period covering Chappell's international career) 43% of matches in Test cricket ended in draws (from 2010-now its 19%). A big part of that was how flat the pitches were and there's a heap of revisionist history that goes on in relation to this.

Smith has played a grand total of 2 matches v Zimbabwe and Bangladesh and if you watched those 2 matches you wouldn't be describing it as a flat pitch with crap bowling. It was a dustbowl with Bangladesh's spinners turning it square.

Yep it’s total BS saying wickets are flatter now than in Chappell era, I am not sure what planet people are on claiming this. Wasn’t like every attack was the West Indies and sides lucky to make 200.

Bowling attacks overall now way better than sides in the 80s, windies and probably Pakistan aside. (Our attack early 80s was decent and obviously went ok 89 ashes).

If we look at mid 80s cricket world vs 2022, all of Australia, India, England, South Africa, Pakistan and NZ would have better bowling attacks than anyone outside the Windies. Pakistan 85 probably a similar level to say an India of 2023.

Can’t group Bangladesh in Smiths time with Bangladesh of the 00s or Zimbabwe. Bangladesh in Bangladesh is tough work, nearly beat India recently, drew a series against us, England too I think.

 

[frankrizzo]

Era of the great aussie side(around ponting captaincy time) has super flat decks right now its as bowler friendly round the world as we have seen in many many years, as for bashing minnows people go on non stop about how australia have shut out smaller teams yet we also minnow bash? how is that possible?

Whatever you think of smith he most certainly isnt a minnow basher or flat track bully.

 

[Blue1980]

Era of the great aussie side(around ponting captaincy time) has super flat decks right now its as bowler friendly round the world as we have seen in many many years, as for bashing minnows people go on non stop about how australia have shut out smaller teams yet we also minnow bash? how is that possible?

Whatever you think of smith he most certainly isnt a minnow basher or flat track bully.

Correct 00s was the flat deck era of lots and lots of runs. 80s was the flat deck era of not much happening

 

[Trojan90]

If you judge batting difficulty on tailender performance. Not sure if it means much, but averages are as follows:

	8-11	9-11
1950s	14.05	11.27
1960s	15.78	12.42
1970s	14.79	13.94
1980s	16.05	13.49
1990s	14.34	11.57
2000s	15.51	12.15
2010s	16.02	13.00
2020s *	14.47	11.6

 

[Gethelred]

Reckon Dravid is in reach, but that top 3 is just insane.

He'd have to get 21 more test centuries to reach Tendulkar. Just mindblowing.

 

[corbies]

Reckon Dravid is in reach, but that top 3 is just insane.

He'd have to get 21 more test centuries to reach Tendulkar. Just mindblowing.

He'd have to play another 108 Tests to play as many as Tendulkar did which I find even more mindblowing.

 

[cricketnut14]

If you judge batting difficulty on tailender performance. Not sure if it means much, but averages are as follows:

	8-11	9-11
1950s	14.05	11.27
1960s	15.78	12.42
1970s	14.79	13.94
1980s	16.05	13.49
1990s	14.34	11.57
2000s	15.51	12.15
2010s	16.02	13.00
2020s *	14.47	11.6

number 8's probably spiked in the 80's due to imran, botham, kapil, hadlee & marshall. imran, botham and kapil would bat 6 or 7 and have the keeper in at 8. even australia had healy at number 8 several times in the 80's with s.waugh and matthews in at 6 and 7.

 

[Around the Wicket]

Reckon Dravid is in reach, but that top 3 is just insane.

He'd have to get 21 more test centuries to reach Tendulkar. Just mindblowing.

Depends how long he plays for, we have no decent batsmen in there early 20's.

 

[Ohitsthatguy]

Kallis with 45 test hundreds just does my head in

Freak

Tendulkar you expect, but Kallis 45 test hundreds ALONG with his bowling.... insane

I think Smith will end up just bleow Sanga

 

[Gethelred]

Depends how long he plays for, we have no decent batsmen in there early 20's.

Dunno if that's true.