Where is best For Lake?

[murphy2bedabest]

I've been looking at a side, our best 21/22 if you will, that if we can get all up and about heading into the 2nd half of the season, its a side that can still have a big say on 2011.

I also did this without picking Lake, just to see how we line up best.

B Wood Markovic Hargrave
HB Morris Williams Murphy
C Cross Boyd Sherman
HF Gia Minson Picken
FF Grant Hall Higgins
Ruck Hudson Cooney Griffen
Inter Libba Ward Gilbee

Subs/depth Addison Hill Stack Jones Moles Roughead Djerrkura
that makes 28 that have had or can have a role in our side, all without lake

others, these guys have played or have at times just been about there.
Hahn Wallis Skinner Ves Hooper Reid Schofeld Mulligan and Barlow. Thats another 9 players that are just there as depth.

So where does Lake fit in best?

 

[dogwatch]

Lake at his best is AA material and would clearly be the best of our defensive talls. So he should play FB. One of Williams or Markovic would have to go if we want to maintain our run out of defence, but which one? It would depend on matchups but I'd say probably Markovic.

Having said that, Marko is playing better than Lake right now so we should wait for Lake to find form and FORCE his way into the side, not just be picked on reputation.

I don't mind Lake going forward for 15 minute stints occasionally but it should be done as a surprise tactic at the opening bounce or the start of the 2nd or 3rd quarters. Lately it's been done when we need to kick 2-3 goals in the last 10 minutes and I think sending Lake forward at that stage is just expecting too much.

The rest of the side looks about right although it's a shame not to have Jones in. Hudson returned to form on Sunday but if he drops off you could put Jones at CHF and Minson into the ruck. Long term Jones is the man for CHF and the more we can play him there the better he'll be.

I also think Wallis will be a serious contender for a regular spot towards the end of the season. He's clearly going to be a class act and will get better week by week.

 

[murphy2bedabest]

Lake at his best is AA material and would clearly be the best of our defensive talls. So he should play FB. One of Williams or Markovic would have to go if we want to maintain our run out of defence, but which one? It would depend on matchups but I'd say probably Markovic.

Having said that, Marko is playing better than Lake right now so we should wait for Lake to find form and FORCE his way into the side, not just be picked on reputation.

I don't mind Lake going forward for 15 minute stints occasionally but it should be done as a surprise tactic at the opening bounce or the start of the 2nd or 3rd quarters. Lately it's been done when we need to kick 2-3 goals in the last 10 minutes and I think sending Lake forward at that stage is just expecting too much.

The rest of the side looks about right although it's a shame not to have Jones in. Hudson returned to form on Sunday but if he drops off you could put Jones at CHF and Minson into the ruck. Long term Jones is the man for CHF and the more we can play him there the better he'll be.

I also think Wallis will be a serious contender for a regular spot towards the end of the season. He's clearly going to be a class act and will get better week by week.

Agree with Jones and thats the thing, how do we play the 2nd ruck? we cant play Huddo Minno and Jones in that same side imo
Can we play only one ruck?

 

[linkman]

Will is not in our best 22 at finals time unless he gives us 5 more performances like the weekend.

When Hall comes back Minson just isn't there. IMHO

Jones is probably there because he is more mobile and smarter, better hands and better kick.

The problem is I really do not see that team challenging. Essendon have us clearly - and have done so for a while now, Pies have us, Hawks I reckon get us, Blues will also have us as our midlfield and defence will be too slow. Cats will smash us and given our history the Saints have to be a chance against us. West Coast beat Freo easily, alebit with injuries, so the weekend will tell us a lot.

Lets not get carried away, we are making up the numbers this year and one win against an average team does not get our season back on track.

 

[Pigdog]

Will is not in our best 22 at finals time unless he gives us 5 more performances like the weekend.

When Hall comes back Minson just isn't there. IMHO

Jones is probably there because he is more mobile and smarter, better hands and better kick..

Jones is not a better kick than Minson.

The problem is I really do not see that team challenging. Essendon have us clearly - and have done so for a while now, Pies have us, Hawks I reckon get us, Blues will also have us as our midlfield and defence will be too slow. Cats will smash us and given our history the Saints have to be a chance against us. West Coast beat Freo easily, alebit with injuries, so the weekend will tell us a lot.

Lets not get carried away, we are making up the numbers this year and one win against an average team does not get our season back on track.

Before rd 1 we had beaten Essendon in 7 of our past 8 clashes.

 

[linkman]

Before rd 1 we had beaten Essendon in 7 of our past 8 clashes.

Yeah thats right. Every time we played them we dominated right. Each time we played them they had significant injury problems. We also only ever put them away towards the end of the game as our bigger bodies over ran them.

They are fatser than us, cleaner with disposal, have a rotating big man forward line and generally have the better of us now.

And if I was betting my left one on a kick - it would be Jones before Will.

 

[yebiga]

I agree, the way things are we will only be making up the numbers this year.

However, given the backline can thrive without Lake, why not play him as a permanent CHF. This is the kind of move which could dramatically improve our structure and really threaten the better teams.

At the centre bounce he plays deep, for the long bomb. Again the defenders are made nervous. Otherwise he plays a kick in front of the pack. Whether he thrives in the role or not, there are huge tactical advantages in this postioning, which must create space and opportunity.


My thinking is that the forward press means that the kick out of defence is crucial, if it is continually being held and reloaded into the defensive 50, the pressure will inevitably overwhelm the defence. This is effectively Collingwoods game plan.

Lake's marking ability and strength would have to improve our ability in this transition phase from defence to forward and thereby relieving the backline pressure.

From my layman's perspective, I believe this move is tactically a laydown misere. Whilst, the ball is deep in our defensive 50, the opposition would be forced to put 2 men to cover Lake without having any confidence they would win any marking contest which may come that way. Any single player would be beaten probably 4 out of 5 occassion. But more importantly, if two are forced to cover him, it means we must have a free man elsewhere in defense or in a dangerous position to create a counter-attack.


Your thoughts

 

[Bulldog Brent]

But more importantly, if two are forced to cover him, it means we must have a free man elsewhere in defense or in a dangerous position to create a counter-attack

This has continually failed to work when teams were double- or triple-teaming BBBBHall.

 

[Kelvin31]

Where does he fit best?
Full Back, Full Back, Full Back.

When fit. Lake is in our best 22 every week. For this excercise, Jones would be the unlucky one.

 

[nicko77]

In utopia (should we get every player fit and in form, which will never happen), Lake walks into the side. It's out of Markovic and Williams for the next key defensive post. I wouldn't say Wood is a certainty either as there are many match-up options now with Hargrave, Murphy, Gilbee, Stack and Picken who can play in defence. Wood's going to have to earn his spot and for mine I think he could struggle, although I do rate him highly.

In attack, the best teams have two permanent tall targets, with a third tall option (usually second ruckman). I think this gives the best balance. Note, I don't consider Jarrad Grant a tall, he is one of our medium sized forwards and this will free him up to wreak havoc with his positional play, pace and ability to find space in the forward 50. For this to work though, Hall needs to play much deeper and lead from the square, and let Jones command the centre-half forward area.

For me the best line-up is:

B: Morris, Lake, Hargrave
HB: Murphy, Williams, Gilbee
C: Cross, Boyd, Picken
HF: Giansiracusa, Jones, Ward
F: Grant, Hall, Higgins
R: Hudson, Griffen, Cooney
I: Minson, Sherman, Liberatore
Sub: Hill
E: Moles, Stack, Wood

There's flexibility there with Murphy and Gilbee able to play forward and Picken able to play back. Higgins, Sherman and Gia can all go into the middle.

Libba's just such high quality with his inside work and disposal he has to be in your 22.

Minson can go forward when either of Hall or Jones go for their rotations on the bench, this would give a very good balanced structure, with plenty of rebound out of defence and marking power up forward (Hall, Jones, Grant).

Hill as the sub because of his flexibility to play a number of roles and clean footskills.

From what I've seen of Jones in the last 3 weeks, it looks like we've found ourselves a key forward, great pair of dukes and he's only going to get better over the next couple of pre-seasons when he adds a bit more core strength. But I really do like him, he's got a low centre of gravity like all good centre half forwards, strong hands, good positional sense and a hard worker when he hasn't got the footy.

Grant is too small to be a power forward, he will always be that dangerous, awkward, hard to match-up third tall, but when he works it out he'll kick a lot of goals, good signs last weekend that he's turning the corner.

 

[StringyDog]

And if I was betting my left one on a kick - it would be Jones before Will.

I suggest you don't start gambling then as you are a back the loser guy, Jones was struggling to kick it over the mark the first few weeks in side, Minson is a very very good kick for his size, the only thing holding Jones back is his poor kicking

 

[Drunken Bum]

And if I was betting my left one on a kick - it would be Jones before Will.

can you reconsider and bet both of them so we rule out all possibility of you reproducing.
Minson is one of our best from a set shot. His field kicking isn't as great but is generally pretty reliable. Jones is not even close to Will in either of these areas yet.
I understand you don't like and don't rate the guy but if you are going to bag him try and get your facts right about it first, there are so many more easy targets on Minson than his kicking.

 

[yebiga]

This has continually failed to work when teams were double- or triple-teaming BBBBHall.

2 points: Lake is not Barry and the further up the ground the harder it is to double team.

 

[yebiga]

Where does he fit best?
Full Back, Full Back, Full Back.

Sure play him full back
But how do we win a flag in 2011

 

[cruz35]

Brian Lake when fit and firing is the best FULL BACK in the AFL. I wouldn't play him any where else, I like the development of Jones and Grant in the forward line.

 

[TMoney22]

Adam Hunter the second

 

[ringa5]

How about wing like Richo used to do at Richmond.

 

[Fossie 32]

I thought it would be a great idea to play him CHF if Marko could hold down FB. So far hasn't worked but maybe when Brian is fit again......

Downside would be not developing Jones to take over CHF

But yet to see whether Barry will come back

 

[memberforever]

So where does Lake fit in best?

Best Fullback in Australia.

 

[Dayyuum]

How about wing like Richo used to do at Richmond.

Haha... Richo had a massive tank that Lake could not even come close to matching.

 

[ringa5]

Haha... Richo had a massive tank that Lake could not even come close to matching.

oh well fullback then.MAKES SENSE TO ME.

 

[porkie]

oh well fullback then.MAKES SENSE TO ME.

AT another club,we are the worst supporters for bagging our players.(think about it) it's a disgrace kick em while there down.then Brag about them when they are on top.