Opinion Which club is Mark Jackson most associated with?

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Seems like hardly anyone wants to claim him.

So I’ll take him to the Richmond reserves.

He is the only reserve player I have strong memories from. We only rocked up at a game with 15 minute left in the last quarter, but his long blond hair and angry presence stood out. Also usually kicked some goals in dying minutes and when someone in the crowd asked how many Jackson got? Around 10…. It’s a wonder he didn’t get at least one game in the seniors in 1980. Would not have happened today…
 
Meteoric Rise said:
Possibly just would have carried on like a galah anyway whether it helped his off-field career or not. But he definitely turned his attention-seeking behaviour to his own advantage.
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He said this himself in an interview, he thought VFL was provincial and had his eye on the wider world, footy was a means to an end for him.
 

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terrybull said:
Seems like hardly anyone wants to claim him.

So I’ll take him to the Richmond reserves.

He is the only reserve player I have strong memories from. We only rocked up at a game with 15 minute left in the last quarter, but his long blond hair and angry presence stood out. Also usually kicked some goals in dying minutes and when someone in the crowd asked how many Jackson got? Around 10…. It’s a wonder he didn’t get at least one game in the seniors in 1980. Would not have happened today…
Click to expand...
Bit hard when you've got Roach kicking a ton and Cloke at CHF.

Lane kicked the ton in the u/19s too from memory.

A champagne year for Tiger full forwards.
 
Meteoric Rise said:
Describing Mark Jackson as a gun is a pretty broad use of the term. He didn't debut until 21yo, and averaged 9 disposals, a bit over 3 marks, and 3.76 goals per game when full forwards scored a lot more than now. He never won a Coleman, got 6 career Brownlow votes and never played in a final. Whilst strong, I am not sure he was too intimidating, which is probably why he chose to carry on like a galah to try create some doubts in opponent's minds. He was more or less just a ball player the majority of the time, didn't move fast enough to be too dangerous. Players that called his bluff didn't have too much trouble handling him.

In his best seasons he was 10, 18, and 28 goals off the Coleman and his best season he basically averaged 4 goals per game. In fact that was his ceiling. He was very much a second rung full forward in his career in the VFL. Very consistent output was about the best thing you could say about him.

At VFL level he was just a good average player, as they used to say.
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His goal average is Top 20 of all time, so he was certainly better than you’re giving him credit for.
 
Bunk Moreland said:
His goal average is Top 20 of all time, so he was certainly better than you’re giving him credit for.
Click to expand...

He played in an era of abundant goals. If he produced a similar level of performance in the modern era, ie about 20% below the Coleman Medallist, he would probably average about 2.2 goals per game. Probably somewhere around Ben Brown's average level of performance.

In the modern era, the median scoring team produces around 265 goals in a 22 round home and away season.

During the Jackson playing era, the median scoring team produced closer to around 330 goals per 22 game home and away season.

If you refer to the following tables, scroll down to the second one, averages by year. Jackson was active 1981-87 I think. This was right in the middle of the huge scoring spike that occurred 1977-1993. Teams averaged throughout that period roughly 15 goals per game. This compares with the late 60's and the modern era where scoring has been anywhere in the 10-12 goal per game per team range.

AFL Tables - Yearly Stats Totals And Averages

So that alone is a huge difference. But also at the time Jackson played, all teams essentially had similar game plans. They would direct the football to their full forward who would often be one out against his opponent. And that full forward barely ever left the 50 metre arc, so he had no other real role in the team other than to kick goals. Which meant full forwards got a higher percentage of their own teams goals than they do in the current era.

So he was a tidy player Jackson, but by no means a star. And if he is in the top 20 all time for goal average, this in no way says he is in the top 20 full forwards of all time. He is nowhere even close to that.
 
terrybull said:
Seems like hardly anyone wants to claim him.

So I’ll take him to the Richmond reserves.

He is the only reserve player I have strong memories from. We only rocked up at a game with 15 minute left in the last quarter, but his long blond hair and angry presence stood out. Also usually kicked some goals in dying minutes and when someone in the crowd asked how many Jackson got? Around 10…. It’s a wonder he didn’t get at least one game in the seniors in 1980. Would not have happened today…
Click to expand...
To be fair in Jacko's own words, he is an individual... so he didn't really belong to any club.
 
bobs head soup said:
As a player of the 80s I'm guessing Chasers on a Thursday, The Tunnel on a Saturday, with a smattering of the Metro, Chevron, Redheads and Saloon Bar.
Click to expand...
Isabellas and The Grain Store probably got a run as well.
Chasers on a Thursday night wasn’t bad, especially the all you can drink nights.
 
TheEscapeClub said:
Bit hard when you've got Roach kicking a ton and Cloke at CHF.

Lane kicked the ton in the u/19s too from memory.

A champagne year for Tiger full forwards.
Click to expand...
BT also kicked a heap of goals from CHF in the twos.
Jacko did play in one of those night games they used to have.
 
Freomaniac said:
He only had half a season at the saints and still kicked 43 goals. Crazy stat.
Click to expand...
story has it back in 83 when he was at the Saints then coach Tony Jewel came up with this plan to use Jacko as a decoy because he was getting so much attention to from the defenders and often the second defender was moving off his man to double up on him so at training they run plays where Jacko would run to the pocket dragging the defenders with him come game day Tony Jewel gives the boys a rev up and asks Jacko if he is clear with the instruction and Jacko say "yep mate all good i know what i gotta do" any way first forward entry Jacko rund straight at the bal marks it and goals ... second entry he pushes off his teammate marks and goals.. third time ball comes in he runs out marks infront of his team mate ..

Qtr time comes Tony Jewel is fuming come up to Jacko and say "what about the plan? " jacko responds "im the only one at St Kilda that kicks the F***ing goals mate thats the only F****ing plan you need to worry bout" ... and thats why Jacko only played one season at St Kilda ... the next year a shy kid from the bush got his spot and proceeded to kick 898 goals for us
 

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st_trav_ofWA said:
story has it back in 83 when he was at the Saints then coach Tony Jewel came up with this plan to use Jacko as a decoy because he was getting so much attention to from the defenders and often the second defender was moving off his man to double up on him so at training they run plays where Jacko would run to the pocket dragging the defenders with him come game day Tony Jewel gives the boys a rev up and asks Jacko if he is clear with the instruction and Jacko say "yep mate all good i know what i gotta do" any way first forward entry Jacko rund straight at the bal marks it and goals ... second entry he pushes off his teammate marks and goals.. third time ball comes in he runs out marks infront of his team mate ..

Qtr time comes Tony Jewel is fuming come up to Jacko and say "what about the plan? " jacko responds "im the only one at St Kilda that kicks the F***ing goals mate thats the only F****ing plan you need to worry bout" ... and thats why Jacko only played one season at St Kilda ... the next year a shy kid from the bush got his spot and proceeded to kick 898 goals for us
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Yep that bolded and underlined bit describes Tony Lockett. Crazy that Tony Lockett was 16 years old to be on the Saints list and only 17 years and 38 days old when he had his debut game.

Mark Jackson had a Dislike of Trevor Barker too.

Sad that Trevor Barker had illness known as Cancer taken his life way to early. I would of loved an Open Mike interview of Trevor Barker.
 
Meteoric Rise said:
He played in an era of abundant goals. If he produced a similar level of performance in the modern era, ie about 20% below the Coleman Medallist, he would probably average about 2.2 goals per game. Probably somewhere around Ben Brown's average level of performance.

In the modern era, the median scoring team produces around 265 goals in a 22 round home and away season.

During the Jackson playing era, the median scoring team produced closer to around 330 goals per 22 game home and away season.

If you refer to the following tables, scroll down to the second one, averages by year. Jackson was active 1981-87 I think. This was right in the middle of the huge scoring spike that occurred 1977-1993. Teams averaged throughout that period roughly 15 goals per game. This compares with the late 60's and the modern era where scoring has been anywhere in the 10-12 goal per game per team range.

AFL Tables - Yearly Stats Totals And Averages

So that alone is a huge difference. But also at the time Jackson played, all teams essentially had similar game plans. They would direct the football to their full forward who would often be one out against his opponent. And that full forward barely ever left the 50 metre arc, so he had no other real role in the team other than to kick goals. Which meant full forwards got a higher percentage of their own teams goals than they do in the current era.

So he was a tidy player Jackson, but by no means a star. And if he is in the top 20 all time for goal average, this in no way says he is in the top 20 full forwards of all time. He is nowhere even close to that.
Click to expand...

No, he was certainly a star. He was much better than you give him credit for. If you want to restrict it to his era then fine - from 81 to 86 - as you say an era of abundant scoring.

Five players kicked more goals than him: Quinlan, Beasley, BT, Roach and Lethal. All superstar goalkickers. And he played less games than all of them in that period.

Of that group, only BT and Beasley have better goal averages (both marginally).

His average for the period across all players was fourth - behind just those two and Blight, who is an all time legend.

Quinlan was the star goalkicker of 81-86 with 483 goals across the six seasons. Jackson went at a better rate per game than him.

He was much better than “tidy” or “average”. He was an absolute elite key forward talent of his time.

Of course he’s not some all-time legend. He was a hugely flawed character who was largely despised by his teammates (and rightfully so) and couldn’t go five minutes without doing something totally moronic.

But despite that, his goalkicking numbers are in the very top bracket of his time and his talent has to be respected.

He should never have been anywhere near league footy yet four VFL clubs (plus Brunswick and South Freo) gave him a chance. There’s a good reason for that, he was one of the very best goalkickers in the country. His numbers show it.

But he was the absolute elite #1 dickhead in the country, which overshadowed it all (understandably).
 
Bunk Moreland said:
No, he was certainly a star. He was much better than you give him credit for. If you want to restrict it to his era then fine - from 81 to 86 - as you say an era of abundant scoring.

Five players kicked more goals than him: Quinlan, Beasley, BT, Roach and Lethal. All superstar goalkickers. And he played less games than all of them in that period.

Of that group, only BT and Beasley have better goal averages (both marginally).

His average for the period across all players was fourth - behind just those two and Blight, who is an all time legend.

Quinlan was the star goalkicker of 81-86 with 483 goals across the six seasons. Jackson went at a better rate per game than him.

He was much better than “tidy” or “average”. He was an absolute elite key forward talent of his time.

Of course he’s not some all-time legend. He was a hugely flawed character who was largely despised by his teammates (and rightfully so) and couldn’t go five minutes without doing something totally moronic.

But despite that, his goalkicking numbers are in the very top bracket of his time and his talent has to be respected.

He should never have been anywhere near league footy yet four VFL clubs (plus Brunswick and South Freo) gave him a chance. There’s a good reason for that, he was one of the very best goalkickers in the country. His numbers show it.

But he was the absolute elite #1 dickhead in the country, which overshadowed it all (understandably).
Click to expand...

I guess it comes down to what you call a star footballer. A bloke averaging 4 goals in his best seasons who does nothing other than kick goals was not considered a star at that time.

Jackson got 6 Brownlow votes in his career and at a time when key forwards were winning Brownlows - Templeton, Quinlan, Lockett. He won no other awards in his VFL career bar 3 x club leading goal kicker awards.

Let's be fair dinkum here. Jackson was a specialist full forward playing in an era when players kicking 100 in a season was relatively common(it happened 22 times in the 19 seasons I have listed below.) In Jackson's BEST season he kicked 76 goals @ 4 goals per game. He never averaged above this for more than 10 games in a season and when he did so over 10 games it was an average of 4.1 goals. Jackson never finished higher than 2nd in the Coleman, he did that once, and finished 4th twice. His best finish in a seasons goal averages n any fullish season was 4th. Lots of star players amongst those better than him on the lists below, but that doesn't make Jackson a star. Lots of full forwards not really considered stars like Moncrieff, Donohue, Beecroft, Ditchburn, Beasley, Bennett, Brownless had seasons as good or better than Jackson's best. In fact lots of non full forwards in Matthews, Bartlett, Healy, McAdam, Daicos and even Ablett had goal kicking seasons as good or better than Jackson's best.

Let's look at the window in which he played and extend it either side by about 6 years, this roughly coincides with the scoring spike era jackson played right in the middle of. Players to have better goal scoring seasons than Jackson's BEST season ie 77 goals or more or average around 4 or higher:


1976 Larry Donohue 105 @ 4.4, Mick Moncrieff 97 @ 3.9, Templeton 82 goals @ 3.6
1977 Hudson 110 @ 4.6, Matthews(playing between midfield and forward) 91 @ 3.8,
1978 Templeton 118 @ 5.6, Donohue 95 @ 4.2, Moncrieff 90 @ 3.9
1979 Templeton 91 @ 4.2, Roach 90 @ 4.7, Beecroft 87 @ 3.6
1980 Roach 112 @ 4.5, Moncrieff 86 @ 4.3, Bartlett 84 goals @ 3.4
1981 Roach 86 @ 4.1, Blight 70 @ 4.7....Jackson 76 @ 3.4
1982 Blight 105 @ 5.2, Beasley 82 @ 3.9, Healy 77 @ 3.6, Taylor 71 @ 4.7, Ditchburn 61 @ 4.7....Jackson 76 @ 4
1983 Quinlan 116 @ 4.8, Matthews 79 @ 3.6.....Jackson 41 @ 4.1
1984 Quinlan 105 @ 4.6, Matthews 77 @ 3.2, Lockett 77 @ 3.9, Salmon 63 @ 4.9.......Jackson 74 @ 3.9
1985 Beasley 105 @ 4.2, Quinlan 84 @ 3.8, Ablett 82 @ 4.1, Taylor 80 @ 3.9, Roach 80 @ 4.7, Lockett 79 @ 3.8...Jackson 33 @ 3.3
1986 Taylor 100 @ 5, Capper 92 @ 3.8, Beasley 88 @ 4, Ablett 65 @ 4.3, Dunstall 77 @ 3.5.....Jackson 8 @ 4
1987 Lockett 117 @ 5.3, Capper 103 @ 4.5, Dunstall 94 @ 3.9
1988 Dunstall 132 @ 5.7, Ablett & Beasley 82 @ 3.9, Lockett 36 @ 4.4
1989 Dunstall 138 @ 5.8, Ablett 87 @ 3.8, Lockett 78 @ 7.1, Osborne 68 @ 4.3, Taylor 49 @ 4.5
1990 Longmire 98 @ 4.5, Daicos 97 @ 3.9, Sumich 90 @ 3.9, Bennett 87 @ 3.7, Dunstall 83 @ 4.6, Ablett 75 @ 4.4, Lockett 65 @ 5.4
1991 Lockett 127 @ 7.5, Sumich 111 @ 4.4, Longmire 91 @ 4.3, Dunstall 82 @ 4.6, Brownless 81 @ 4.1, Jakovich 71 @ 5.1
1992 Dunstall 145, Lockett 132, Kernahan 83, Sumich 82, Brownless 79
1993 Modra 129, Ablett 124, Dunstall 123, McAdam 68 @ 4, Jakovich 39 @ 4.33, Minton-Connell 41 @ 4.1
1994 Ablett 129, Dunstall 101, Kernahan 82, Lyon 79, Longmire 78

Jackson was never any better than a decent full forward. Him being a total galah is irrelevant.
 
DQ 4EVER said:
Fast he was not, but everything else is correct. He waa quick thinking on field & was very good in the WAFL when it was still a strong league

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app
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Absolutely spot on

He was a very tidy kick - and accurate kick for goal

At Geelong he was as slow as bugggery , that was his weakness , if he had a turn of foot he would have been a top line player
 
Bunk Moreland said:
No, he was certainly a star. He was much better than you give him credit for. If you want to restrict it to his era then fine - from 81 to 86 - as you say an era of abundant scoring.

Five players kicked more goals than him: Quinlan, Beasley, BT, Roach and Lethal. All superstar goalkickers. And he played less games than all of them in that period.

Of that group, only BT and Beasley have better goal averages (both marginally).

His average for the period across all players was fourth - behind just those two and Blight, who is an all time legend.

Quinlan was the star goalkicker of 81-86 with 483 goals across the six seasons. Jackson went at a better rate per game than him.

He was much better than “tidy” or “average”. He was an absolute elite key forward talent of his time.

Of course he’s not some all-time legend. He was a hugely flawed character who was largely despised by his teammates (and rightfully so) and couldn’t go five minutes without doing something totally moronic.

But despite that, his goalkicking numbers are in the very top bracket of his time and his talent has to be respected.

He should never have been anywhere near league footy yet four VFL clubs (plus Brunswick and South Freo) gave him a chance. There’s a good reason for that, he was one of the very best goalkickers in the country. His numbers show it.

But he was the absolute elite #1 dickhead in the country, which overshadowed it all (understandably).
Click to expand...
All these antics and showmanship take energy and thought.

Imagine if he just concentrated on kicking goals like he did in the reserves? We probably see Jackson in a different light.

But he did all right as he is still often talked about today…
 
Jackson is a true oddity.

He once did a talking tour throughout Australia with two of the most horrendous people of recent history; Mark Chopper Read and Roger Rogerson

I happened to see them at a Pub in Yandina on the Sunshine Coast in Queensland. They played many similar weirdarse joints throughout Australia.

They basically one upped each other and joked about sociopathic and truly horrendous sh.t.

Looking back, it was just plain insanity.
 
Bunk Moreland said:
No, he was certainly a star. He was much better than you give him credit for. If you want to restrict it to his era then fine - from 81 to 86 - as you say an era of abundant scoring.

Five players kicked more goals than him: Quinlan, Beasley, BT, Roach and Lethal. All superstar goalkickers. And he played less games than all of them in that period.

Of that group, only BT and Beasley have better goal averages (both marginally).

His average for the period across all players was fourth - behind just those two and Blight, who is an all time legend.

Quinlan was the star goalkicker of 81-86 with 483 goals across the six seasons. Jackson went at a better rate per game than him.

He was much better than “tidy” or “average”. He was an absolute elite key forward talent of his time.

Of course he’s not some all-time legend. He was a hugely flawed character who was largely despised by his teammates (and rightfully so) and couldn’t go five minutes without doing something totally moronic.

But despite that, his goalkicking numbers are in the very top bracket of his time and his talent has to be respected.

He should never have been anywhere near league footy yet four VFL clubs (plus Brunswick and South Freo) gave him a chance. There’s a good reason for that, he was one of the very best goalkickers in the country. His numbers show it.

But he was the absolute elite #1 dickhead in the country, which overshadowed it all (understandably).
Click to expand...

Summed it up well Bunk. Used to watch him as a kid, the crowd would move from one goalsquare to the other each quarter to give it to him, and he encouraged it.

Kicked a lot of goals, started a lot of bullshit and often managed to be a net negative influence on games for the Cats. Didn't see much of him elsewhere but I imagine it was the same shit.
 
I grew up knowing Jacko was a goal kicking star of the game, but with his song and the antics on the field I was also aware that he was a bit of a fool....

Years later, when he teamed up with Chopper Read, he regaled audiences with his standover tactics that he used against his own teammates and told a story about how he decided to target Trevor Barker upon joining the Saints.

He came off like an absolute ****wit, and all of sudden his career made so much more sense to me. A few years later he appeared on the now infamous episode of "Open Mike" where he just cemented himself as arguably the games biggest cretin.

I'm not sure any club would be that keen to be linked to him.
 
Book club maybe? I remember having this literary masterpiece of his when I was a kid:

20120322_99_0009-500x500.jpg
 
The 747 said:
Kicked a lot of goals, started a lot of bullshit and often managed to be a net negative influence on games for the Cats. Didn't see much of him elsewhere but I imagine it was the same s**t.
Click to expand...
This sums up his entire career really well.
Genuine natural talent in one aspect of the game, but his extreme selfishness and unreliability made him a liability wherever he played.

I have heard Tony Jewell say that although he kicked goals in his very brief time at St Kilda, he cost the team more than he scored by his refusal to chase his opponent or follow team rules in any way.

He is also the only person I have ever heard say a bad word about Trevor Barker. In fact he once placed a brick under Barker’s brake pedal.

He played at three clubs which were all out of finals at the time, and all either sacked him or were happy to see him go.
 

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Opinion Which club is Mark Jackson most associated with?

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