Which list would you want? Richmond, Carlton, Geelong

[WalshistheGOAT]

I remember when Brian Cook arrived at Carlton and said their rebuild still has a long way to go.
Their supporters didn't want to hear it.

Yes they made a preliminary final last year but so did Richmond in Frawley's second year.
That Richmond side had a handful of stars but the rest of the list was quite ordinary, not much different to the current Carlton side actually.

The same ordinary players who flogged Geelong a couple months ago to the tune of 10+ goals

 

[Kobe Gryant]

The same ordinary players who flogged Geelong a couple months ago to the tune of 10+ goals

Hawks fans seem to forget they got smashed by the Cats recently who the Blues made look like pre schoolers a few weeks before that

Last time Blues played the Cats we absolutely beat the sh*t out of them and outside of Cripps it was all blokes with plenty of years left of good footy in them. TDK, Hollands, Walsh, Kennedy, Curnow etc.

I don't think I've ever seen a supporter base live off one home & away win like this.

Carlton used to laugh at Footscray & St Kilda supporters for doing this sorta stuff. How the mighty have fallen.

Take it from us: We've been flogged in premiership years, and have flogged the eventual premiers in years where we were finals easy beats.

It doesn't mean anything, if it once again leads to nothing.

You're blowing your load repeatedly over something that nobody is going to remember, much like the minnow clubs once did.

 

[Grrr]

Would take our list everyday of the week and twice on Sundays.
Carlton and Richmond both have little to no quality youth coming through.

That is pretty short sighted. We really don't know the quality of Campbell, Brown, Green, Smith, Bauer, Lefau, Tresize, and a few others because they are all first year players. Nobody has the ability to judge first year players unless they have gun first years like Daicos and a few others. They all showed a bit. How many of Geelong's young players were known quality in their first year in the AFL.

But that is not the main point, they may or may not be players, but Richmond already have 6 picks inside 47 in this years draft, and will add another 4-6, mainly inside top 25.

No.1 picks are always quality these days. It could easily work out that Richmond have up to 8 picks inside the top 30 this year. (3 already, 2 for Bolton, low pick for Rioli, Baker, Graham). You get a lot of good players inside top 30.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Cats fans calling other clubs minnows while playing on a cow paddock each week. Oh the irony

 

[Osho]

That is pretty short sighted. We really don't know the quality of Campbell, Brown, Green, Smith, Bauer, Lefau, Tresize, and a few others because they are all first year players. Nobody has the ability to judge first year players unless they have gun first years like Daicos and a few others. They all showed a bit. How many of Geelong's young players were known quality in their first year in the AFL.

But that is not the main point, they may or may not be players, but Richmond already have 6 picks inside 47 in this years draft, and will add another 4-6, mainly inside top 25.

No.1 picks are always quality these days. It could easily work out that Richmond have up to 8 picks inside the top 30 this year. (3 already, 2 for Bolton, low pick for Rioli, Baker, Graham). You get a lot of good players inside top 30.

I reckon Tiges could be sitting on a goldmine next couple of years. Just need the coaching crew to be top shelf.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Definately Richmond after this draft. With Tassie coming in , the other sides won't be finding many good young players.

 

[PhatBoy]

The same ordinary players who flogged Geelong a couple months ago to the tune of 10+ goals

That was one four quarter game, you know?

Like the one where Port Adelaide beat us in 2007? You know one result doesn’t always give an accurate indication of every aspect or every club and exactly where they’re at?

Yes, for all anyone knows in that case it DOES give an accurate reflection. But equally it also might not.

I would be looking at a lot more factors than just the result of a head to head match.

 

[PhatBoy]

Definately Richmond after this draft. With Tassie coming in , the other sides won't be finding many good young players.

It’s already been debunked.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

It’s already been debunked.

How so?

 

[MadMundy]

Probably Richmond to start fresh, build the list from the ground up.

 

[Grrr]

I reckon Tiges could be sitting on a goldmine next couple of years. Just need the coaching crew to be top shelf.

Caracella has come back who was previously with us (left end of 2019 season). Highly regarded.
Yze will have a clean sheet to work with, no coach is going to come in and make a statement first year taking over a very successful side on the wane. That has been wiped clean now. We will see.

 

[PhatBoy]

How so?

The team at the bottom when Gold Coast came in - West Coast - picked up Darling, Gaff and Lycett: two all Australian premiership players (would be in Gaff’s case if he didn’t get suspended) and another premiership player. That was their draft hand in the Suns first draft.
All of them played a key (in Gaff and Darling’s case) and reasonable in Lycett’s case role in getting them back up the ladder and to a premiership. They didn’t need to load up before the Suns came in to rebuild. Other sides at the bottom picked out good players from that draft:

Essendon got Dyson Heppel who would have more than likely helped them at least build toward something better than they’ve achieved if it weren’t for the wada debacle.

Adelaide picked up an All Australian defender in Brodie Smith, part of their rebuild that saw them regular finalists in the next half decade and make a grand final by 2017. st Kilda drafted Jamie Cripps and could have held onto him but were silly enough to trade him to West Coast where he too would become a 200 game flag player.

Nevermind that the simple mathematics of one team loading up on a whole raft of high picks means that the time will quickly come where they cannot keep them all….

Which you, as a Tigers fan should remember: Dion Prestia, Josh Caddy and Tom Lynch ring any bells? yes, Lynch and Caddy in particular went the longer way around, but soon enough these players with a number of seasons under their belt get picked up as ready made players when the expansion teams have to make choices.

Fast forward to the next year and Port Adelaide, the worst ‘established’ team in the comp picks up Chad Wingard who makes two All Australian teams as a Power player and helps them push back towards the top 8. His trade will ultimately land them…. Connor Rozee, incidentally.

One of the first non-GWS picks is…. Sam Docherty. Who they too were silly enough to get rid of and is now an All Australian with Carlton.

Richmond pick up Brandon Ellis with their first pick, a premiership player, a good one.

If anyone was good enough to spot him, they all could have picked up two time St Kilda best and fairest winner Seb Ross, but no one did.


A year later, again in a heavily compromised draft due to all the trading and swapping of picks, the Giants take the first three picks, leaving Melbourne to more or less screw up at #4 by taking Toumpas while the Dogs took Stringer and McRae at 5-6, and Port took a future Brownlow medalist - Olly Wines at 7.

Richmond complete what is ultimately a pretty vital piece - very vital in fact - of their rebuild - at 9, with Nick Vlastuin.

 

[Grrr]

The team at the bottom when Gold Coast came in - West Coast - picked up Darling, Gaff and Lycett: two all Australian premiership players (would be in Gaff’s case if he didn’t get suspended) and another premiership player. That was their draft hand in the Suns first draft.
All of them played a key (in Gaff and Darling’s case) and reasonable in Lycett’s case role in getting them back up the ladder and to a premiership. They didn’t need to load up before the Suns came in to rebuild. Other sides at the bottom picked out good players from that draft:

Essendon got Dyson Heppel who would have more than likely helped them at least build toward something better than they’ve achieved if it weren’t for the wada debacle.

Adelaide picked up an All Australian defender in Brodie Smith, part of their rebuild that saw them regular finalists in the next half decade and make a grand final by 2017. st Kilda drafted Jamie Cripps and could have held onto him but were silly enough to trade him to West Coast where he too would become a 200 game flag player.

Nevermind that the simple mathematics of one team loading up on a whole raft of high picks means that the time will quickly come where they cannot keep them all….

Which you, as a Tigers fan should remember: Dion Prestia, Josh Caddy and Tom Lynch ring any bells? yes, Lynch and Caddy in particular went the longer way around, but soon enough these players with a number of seasons under their belt get picked up as ready made players when the expansion teams have to make choices.

Fast forward to the next year and Port Adelaide, the worst ‘established’ team in the comp picks up Chad Wingard who makes two All Australian teams as a Power player and helps them push back towards the top 8. His trade will ultimately land them…. Connor Rozee, incidentally.

One of the first non-GWS picks is…. Sam Docherty. Who they too were silly enough to get rid of and is now an All Australian with Carlton.

Richmond pick up Brandon Ellis with their first pick, a premiership player, a good one.

If anyone was good enough to spot him, they all could have picked up two time St Kilda best and fairest winner Seb Ross, but no one did.


A year later, again in a heavily compromised draft due to all the trading and swapping of picks, the Giants take the first three picks, leaving Melbourne to more or less screw up at #4 by taking Toumpas while the Dogs took Stringer and McRae at 5-6, and Port took a future Brownlow medalist - Olly Wines at 7.

Richmond complete what is ultimately a pretty vital piece - very vital in fact - of their rebuild - at 9, with Nick Vlastuin.

Exactly, good kids come from all directions, some un-notice pre draft, some from the draft. You need a few drafts to really build.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

The team at the bottom when Gold Coast came in - West Coast - picked up Darling, Gaff and Lycett: two all Australian premiership players (would be in Gaff’s case if he didn’t get suspended) and another premiership player. That was their draft hand in the Suns first draft.
All of them played a key (in Gaff and Darling’s case) and reasonable in Lycett’s case role in getting them back up the ladder and to a premiership. They didn’t need to load up before the Suns came in to rebuild. Other sides at the bottom picked out good players from that draft:

Essendon got Dyson Heppel who would have more than likely helped them at least build toward something better than they’ve achieved if it weren’t for the wada debacle.

Adelaide picked up an All Australian defender in Brodie Smith, part of their rebuild that saw them regular finalists in the next half decade and make a grand final by 2017. st Kilda drafted Jamie Cripps and could have held onto him but were silly enough to trade him to West Coast where he too would become a 200 game flag player.

Nevermind that the simple mathematics of one team loading up on a whole raft of high picks means that the time will quickly come where they cannot keep them all….

Which you, as a Tigers fan should remember: Dion Prestia, Josh Caddy and Tom Lynch ring any bells? yes, Lynch and Caddy in particular went the longer way around, but soon enough these players with a number of seasons under their belt get picked up as ready made players when the expansion teams have to make choices.

Fast forward to the next year and Port Adelaide, the worst ‘established’ team in the comp picks up Chad Wingard who makes two All Australian teams as a Power player and helps them push back towards the top 8. His trade will ultimately land them…. Connor Rozee, incidentally.

One of the first non-GWS picks is…. Sam Docherty. Who they too were silly enough to get rid of and is now an All Australian with Carlton.

Richmond pick up Brandon Ellis with their first pick, a premiership player, a good one.

If anyone was good enough to spot him, they all could have picked up two time St Kilda best and fairest winner Seb Ross, but no one did.


A year later, again in a heavily compromised draft due to all the trading and swapping of picks, the Giants take the first three picks, leaving Melbourne to more or less screw up at #4 by taking Toumpas while the Dogs took Stringer and McRae at 5-6, and Port took a future Brownlow medalist - Olly Wines at 7.

Richmond complete what is ultimately a pretty vital piece - very vital in fact - of their rebuild - at 9, with Nick Vlastuin.

If 8 of the best 16 picks are taken out of the draft, the draft by definition is weaker for the other clubs. That's called logic.

 

[PhatBoy]

If 8 of the best 16 picks are taken out of the draft, the draft by definition is weaker for the other clubs. That's called logic.

No, it just means that those players are shifted to one side and the remaining player pool becomes ‘the draft.’

Tasmania isn’t who the rebuilding teams are competing with to get up the ladder. Those teams, for the next 5-6 years realistically, are competing amongst themselves and a couple of teams just above them, to get to the top 8 and become a factor in the competition.

So the players Tasmania pick get removed.

It leaves the next batch of players as the default #1, #2 etc. it is THOSE players who will determine who’s rebuild fares best because as literally every draft in history has shown, good players and very much great players are always popping up down the order and it is still a question of who drafts best from what remains.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

No, it just means that those players are shifted to one side and the remaining player pool becomes ‘the draft.’

Tasmania isn’t who the rebuilding teams are competing with to get up the ladder. Those teams, for the next 5-6 years realistically, are competing amongst themselves and a couple of teams just above them, to get to the top 8 and become a factor in the competition.

So the players Tasmania pick get removed.

It leaves the next batch of players as the default #1, #2 etc. it is THOSE players who will determine who’s rebuild fares best because as literally every draft in history has shown, good players and very much great players are always popping up down the order and it is still a question of who drafts best from what remains.

Yes but Richmond have the next two drafts without Tasmania so we get the picks in their true spot ,not lower picks .
If you finish 14th when Tasmania come in you won't get pick 5 , you'll get pick 9 aprox. Pick 9 is not as good as pick 5.
You'll get pick 36 instead of pick 23 ect

 

[PhatBoy]

Yes but Richmond have the next two drafts without Tasmania so we get the picks in their true spot ,not lower picks .
If you finish 14th when Tasmania come in you won't get pick 5 , you'll get pick 9 aprox. Pick 9 is not as good as pick 5.
You'll get pick 36 instead of pick 23 ect

Yes absolutely you do but that’s not what’s being debated.

What’s being debated is that if you go **** up the year that Tassie have their first draft and instead of having pick 1, you get, say, pick 5, then ok you might miss out on the best player. Ok that’s unlucky.

Tassie will get theoretically if they pick wisely, the best player. And the next best 3-4 as well.

But the teams YOU are trying to climb past to get your rebuild going now that you’ve bottomed out…

You still get the pick of the relevant litter. The players Tassie have aren’t relevant to that. There is a new injection of player talent into the AFL player pool - it HAS to come into the league, that’s how lists are replenished - and you have the first access to that. And if you do it well, your club has nothing to fear about doing it while a new club is coming into the comp.


Absolutely Richmond will get a good look at top tier talent before Tassie come in so good luck to them. What I’m saying is that a side that can either bottom out now because ‘they are scared of doing it when Tassie impact the draft’ or risk doing it when Tassie arrive’ need not worry too much because history shows that it won’t make much of a difference anyway.