chargers 09
Premiership Player
i dont have a deep knowledge of the NFL just wondering who would be the fastest and have the best leap in the league. Devon Hester would surely be up there as one of the fastest in the league?
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NFL Who Are the Best Athletes in the NFL?
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Dagless
Hall of Famer
You'll find that most of the measurable stats aren't very useful in comparison to college.
I'm sure there is a site (Can't be bothered atm). Hester ran a 4.35.
Calvin Johnson has amazing measurables. 6-5, 4.35 40 metre, 4.19 20 ss, and a verticle jump of 42.5 inches (114 centimetres)
As I said, I am sure they aren't the best, but the combination is more key. Not that I rate the 40 second dash highly at all. Overrated skill considering it is measured with no pads and in a straight line. The key difference that isn't measured is game speed, how fast a player plays in pads, pulling off moves, changing direction. Totally different game to what they produce in the Combine.
Chris Johnson ran a 4.24 last year IIRC.
I'm sure there is a site (Can't be bothered atm). Hester ran a 4.35.
Calvin Johnson has amazing measurables. 6-5, 4.35 40 metre, 4.19 20 ss, and a verticle jump of 42.5 inches (114 centimetres)
As I said, I am sure they aren't the best, but the combination is more key. Not that I rate the 40 second dash highly at all. Overrated skill considering it is measured with no pads and in a straight line. The key difference that isn't measured is game speed, how fast a player plays in pads, pulling off moves, changing direction. Totally different game to what they produce in the Combine.
Chris Johnson ran a 4.24 last year IIRC.
Woodson
Former AE commish
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Didn't you watch the NFL play-offs? Chargers got bounced literally by pace on special teams
and where were you on Supabah Monday? Obviously missedon two fine Endzone performances by the NFL's elite WR's..
Interestingly enough, The Age newspaper (Melbourne) finally wrote something well OVERDUE to inform the public that the AFL have fine athletes but absolute 'garbage' with basic skills.
NFL >>>>>> daylight... light years.... >> AFLSimple as that.
GeeCats07
Club Legend
That's a completely BS statement, Woodson. That article in The Age was just emphasising how there are still players who do not have great skills coming through the junior ranks. Most AFL players have fine skills and obviously some with imaculate kicking. To say that the AFL has fine athletes but absolute 'garbage' basic skills is wrong.
Zarko, your point about game speed is very true. Someone like Crabtree is a prime example where his game tape showed what he can do and a 40 time really isn't neccessary to see a players skills. That being said, Crabtree is yet to perform at the elite level but Al Davis (and others who passed) wanted a 40 time.
Zarko, your point about game speed is very true. Someone like Crabtree is a prime example where his game tape showed what he can do and a 40 time really isn't neccessary to see a players skills. That being said, Crabtree is yet to perform at the elite level but Al Davis (and others who passed) wanted a 40 time.
Wizard
Brownlow Medallist
As a pure athlete i would think Larry Fitzgerald would be right up there.
I'm not sure of his combine scores off the top of my head, other then his 40 wasn't all that impressive.
But if you watch him play his athleticisim is out of this World. Super quick, massive vertical leap, extremely strong in the body and hands. I think his vertical is 45 inches or something ridiculous like that.
Another that may surprise a few is Mario Williams:
40-yard dash - 4.66, 225 bench press - 35 reps, vertical jump - 40.5"
Thats freakish for a guy 6ft 7inches and 295 pounds.
I'm not sure of his combine scores off the top of my head, other then his 40 wasn't all that impressive.
But if you watch him play his athleticisim is out of this World. Super quick, massive vertical leap, extremely strong in the body and hands. I think his vertical is 45 inches or something ridiculous like that.
Another that may surprise a few is Mario Williams:
40-yard dash - 4.66, 225 bench press - 35 reps, vertical jump - 40.5"
Thats freakish for a guy 6ft 7inches and 295 pounds.
Woodson
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Take your horizontal hoop rose tinted sunglasses off GeeCats, I read the article and really has the progress of EVEN the '3+ year experienced' players actually improved that much themselves?? I'm obviously not talking about the Judds, Cooney's, Abletts or most of the Geelong team, but sheesh, you can't say that most have fine skills?? otherwise low scoring shouldn't be a factor in the new age game where it's more uncontested footy than ever! Think about it. Move ball fast, tech foul rules in advantage of forwards, yet can't kick to save themselves more time than NOT! That's my point. The Age just licked the icing.. when they should of taken a chunky bite.
Well stated Wizard. The poorly educated AFL followers wouldn't have a clue how really mobile these big fella's are.
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Now thats a freak
Wizard
Brownlow Medallist
Julius Peppers:
At the time of combine: 6-6, 290 pounds.
4.55 on turf in the 40-yard
37.5 vertical jump
Bench-pressed 420 pounds
Squatted 575 pounds
Nine percent body fat at 6-6 1/8, 290 pounds.
At the time of combine: 6-6, 290 pounds.
4.55 on turf in the 40-yard
37.5 vertical jump
Bench-pressed 420 pounds
Squatted 575 pounds
Nine percent body fat at 6-6 1/8, 290 pounds.
Woodson - are you an Aussie Rules coach?
GeeCats07
Club Legend
Hahahaha very well played. Our goal kicking would tell another story but I guess that starts to support your argument. But maybe the team you support is effecting your judgment as well? They are not known for having the best skills.
I still think you are underselling the majority of footballers who do have fine skills. That doesn't mean they are 100% accurate all the time because no one is, but saying they can't kick is going a little far.
Woodson
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No and what's that got to do with underlining the fact about many players who are the highest paid (more than the lesser leagues anyway) and supposably the best league in the country not being up to scratch of what their worth?
What has happened is the AFL have sacrificed POTENTIAL & SPEED
for the sake of skills & contests. That's a whole BOWL of Wrong IMHO. The likes of Nathan Buckley could of played another 2-3 years and the game wouldn't be any worse off. Instead with have bunch of whippersnappers who can play a great game every 5 weeks with heaps of mistakes in between.
No I can tell your not, you sit in your "Armchair Goalsquare" and lampoon everything, without even having knowledge of what you're talking about. Reading newspapers about AFL doesnt make you knowledgeable. You probably yell "BALL!" after every tackle as well, without having read the rule book.
I work in elite junior development and can tell you The Age article was insufficient in explaining what is actually being asked for. What has happened to the game is that it has evolved rapidly over 10 years and the development has not caught up.
1996 - Pagan's paddock - 'kick it long to Wayne'
2000 - Essendon hard running
2005 - Tempo footy - Sydney and Adelaide developed styles of keeping the footy with foot passing rather than kicking to contested situations
2008 - 18-man zones - teams could not execute foot skills in closed areas
Thus, there used to be many ways you could win a game - faster, taller, stronger, better skilled. Now, there is only one - you have to kick better than the opposition. The type of kicks needed to be executed have changed and the requirement for everyone on the field to be able to execute the kick has changed. You cant have a lumbering 200cm ruckman who cannot hit a 20m pass anymore.
In simple exercise science, the movements and dynamics for a 20m pass as opposed to a 40m pass are completely different. So, different skills & muscles need to be developed at a junior age. This is what the AFL clubs are after. How many kicking coaches do you see at Under 12s and 13s when you are developing your kicking style? None. If they slip through to Under 15, the elite development programs need to be right onto them as if its left until 17, 18 its too hard to change technique.
It's just plain bull to say the skill level in the AFL is garbage, it's the most diverse skill set of any game in the world & just because you can regurgitate Mike Sheahan articles it doesn't mean jack in my opinion.
Regardless, the question was about athletes in the NFL, not the skill level of AFL. The only comparable skills would be marking, running and tackling. Further, if you're comparing to NFL, how many kids have come straight out of high school and into NFL and been expected to perform immediately? You're comparing 22-23 year olds with 4 year college careers, playing infront of 100,000 people in intense competition to 18 year old kids who play infront of 2000 people max and mainly against other 18 year olds.
I think that might have actually been the point he was trying to make.
That older skilled players are phased out due to a lack of being able to run like they are in their early-mid 20s.
If the AFL gave players a chance to develop and didn't throw the kids into an increasingly sped up game when they are 17-19, maybe the skill level would be better.
I understand what you are getting at in terms of physiology. The older someone gets, the harder it is to develop muscle memory, or to "correct" errors that may have been learned over several years.
And that the strategy for youth teams might not be the same for elite teams. Less run and carry and more long kicks the less professional the league.
I think Woodson mistyped earlier in that he meant "skills and contests" have been sacrificed for "speed and potential". IE - as the game has become more professional, teams have increasingly gone away from set positions, everyone wants players who can run all day to both be able to set up zones/get behind the ball and also rebound quickly/get numbers to contests. As this gamestyle is implemented, skills are often sacrificed for pure speed or lung capacity. Young players are judged more on fitness and less on skills.
It makes for a faster game, but less contests. This increased running in turn forces more skill errors since fine motor skills decrease with fatigue. So kicks/handballs need to be more precise to combat increased players around contests, but become less accurate with fatigue. This in turn often leads to players going to options that are uncontested, but not productive.
Faster doesn't necessarily equate to better to everyone. I think that's what he was trying to get across.
Or I could be totally wrong.
Not sure how this topic got on AFL players at all anyway. If Woodson was trying to say that AFL athletes aren't the pure specimens in the NFL, well then I agree.
The simple answer to "Who are the best athletes in the NFL?" is - "All of them!" Simply put, they (along with the NBA) are the some of the biggest, strongest, fastest people on the planet. You don't get there without being freakishly athletic.
Even linemen, who seem to be misunderstood, are freaks for men their size. They are actually very, very quick. The are power lifters who are light and balanced on their feet. Most would easily dunk a basketball.
The difference in athleticism from the best in the NFL to the worst (at each position) isn't that much. The great ones are the ones who are smart, both in study of technique and of strategy.
Its also why coaching is such a huge factor. The talent levels are pretty much equal. Its the coaches who can teach their players the best and have the best strategy and adjustments who are often the winners.
Exe Gesis
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Good post MSG77.
I just want to add imo the problem with Aust Football is the shape and size of the field. It's an arena/environment tailor-made for what the modern game has become....long-distance runners, small midfielders at every position, no 'position' as such anymore.
In games like NFL and Rugby, two lines of teams meeting face-to-face, on a small rectangular field, there are many specialized positions and all require their own set of skills and athletic focus.
Gaelic football, is basically Aust Football but on a small rectangular field. And it's due to that that there is more skill set focus. Because the environment restricts the type of free-flowing game it is to focus on skills more. But in Aust Football, the field itself imo is the problem. For hundreds of years it was the same field, but coaching and tactics were always the same for 80 years. Then all of a sudden coaching started to belatedly realize the dimensions of the field tactically.
Look at all free-flowing games around the world.....Ice Hockey, Soccer, Basketball, Gaelic, Aust Football.....all those fields, bar Aust Football, are small and rectangular, requiring a very high skill set. Whereas Aust Football is now headlong down the path towards a team full of Tri-Athlete specimens purely due to the field.
My vision of Aust Football is making it a 100 meter rectangular field, maybe 11 a side, and it would make that game become fiercer tackling and bumping, more skill set required, start seeing specialist positions.
I just want to add imo the problem with Aust Football is the shape and size of the field. It's an arena/environment tailor-made for what the modern game has become....long-distance runners, small midfielders at every position, no 'position' as such anymore.
In games like NFL and Rugby, two lines of teams meeting face-to-face, on a small rectangular field, there are many specialized positions and all require their own set of skills and athletic focus.
Gaelic football, is basically Aust Football but on a small rectangular field. And it's due to that that there is more skill set focus. Because the environment restricts the type of free-flowing game it is to focus on skills more. But in Aust Football, the field itself imo is the problem. For hundreds of years it was the same field, but coaching and tactics were always the same for 80 years. Then all of a sudden coaching started to belatedly realize the dimensions of the field tactically.
Look at all free-flowing games around the world.....Ice Hockey, Soccer, Basketball, Gaelic, Aust Football.....all those fields, bar Aust Football, are small and rectangular, requiring a very high skill set. Whereas Aust Football is now headlong down the path towards a team full of Tri-Athlete specimens purely due to the field.
My vision of Aust Football is making it a 100 meter rectangular field, maybe 11 a side, and it would make that game become fiercer tackling and bumping, more skill set required, start seeing specialist positions.
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Exe Gesis
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If they want blood.....they got it!
Woodson
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Actually I'm one of very few who detests the holding the ball rule coz it's so hotch potch... (totally inconsistent). Prefer play on more time than not.
That's why the skills are not up to scratch.. as they should be. The Age article only brushed the surface when the painful facts are that even the experienced players are just not good enough anymore. Look increasingly rusty.
Couldn't agree more but getting to the kicking... how many players actually have a opposite side? Then there is kicking backwards / keeping senseless possession when the result is far from determined which cripples the spectacle. The 2005-8 model proved it. How the Swans managed to win their way into GF's were more to do with running it off the HB line and the opposition seemed stuck in stopping an avalanche of short high percentage passes to score.
Hard to change technique is something qualified experts like yourself can monitor but guess what... AFL footy is far greater than just technique and what I wanted to say that reading of the play is just as vital that comes with
quality coaching and team mechanics of position structure.. like the Hawks rolling zone. Even on special team in American football.. it's no different. I can't be bothered reading Iron Mike's ramblings.. the poor guy can't even pick a winner (my aunty who doesn't know 1% of what he does is 11 points ahead in tipping already!!).. shame on him.
Marking?? the AFL have a different criteria to marking... you can't afford to spill the ball in American Football.. Close to 40% of marks are contested marks are spilled in Aussie Rules... moot point there.
Tackling.. the new rules (interpretations) have screwed with the players minds so you won't be seeing any 'aggressive type tackling' in AFL as we'd like to see.
Running can't be judged due to the different type of game. Stop-start vs ongoing motion. Moot point.
Why do they allow such 'kids' to play at the highest level is more the question?? That's why the average age of lists is indeed evenly spread in the AFL (21-24) with some clubs having more experienced (100+ game veterans) to make their teams stronger.
Everything is a cycle (or window of opportunity) in the AFL whereas the NFL is more like plugging the holes to fill the void and some rookies can adapt in teams with a better system than others.
I think you ought to give me more credit than just 'flicking off my opinions like it I were a hack journo' ... I've been watching aussie rules for a very long time as well and think we'll see improvements in (skills) from most teams by 2012.
Game styles vary too much in the AFL is what makes it harder to gauge how truly great a elite player can be the better athlete. I just think there is more
to, than kicking, marking & running that makes the AFL a sport for junior to be ready for. And that's mental. Too demanding to expect too much too soon and then anticipate consistency will follow with so many things going on.
TheGreatBarryB
Hall of Famer
Wow, what can you say. You basically want AFL to become NFL.
I love both sports and appreciate the differences between both of them. They're incomparable and that's the way it should. How lucky that we can follow both virtually 12 months of the year.
And the skills in both sports have never been better.
As for best athletes lets not forget Randy Moss. Freak.
Exe Gesis
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Not AFL to become like NFL, but more like Gaelic actually. That conspiracy of a hybrid game ive been so against in the past....i think actually would be the best direction for both games, but gotta be more hard-hitting like Ice-Hockey, without the 'checking' rules of GAA, which the AFL seem to be slowly implementing as well.
GeeCats07
Club Legend
I refuse to believe that you are being serious, GG, because no real AFL fan would want what you are suggesting. That being said you are right in that Demetriou does seem to very slowly turning things a little softer but not as far as you may want it.
Exe Gesis
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The conspiracy is real. Ive heard AD mention it before, about hybriding the games a little in their own separate comps so that they can be able to play on an equal level in IRL games. And so, longterm, a future growth of this kind of hybrid game on the world stage...to try to rival and compete against a similar soccer.
GAA implementing marks, etc, gradually, and AFL implementing some of the softer stuff that exists in Gaelic. Because that was a big complaint by the Irish---the AFL game was more contact sport than Gaelic is (which is more checking), and that for the Irish to be able to compete there needs to be an effort by both leagues to hybrid the games.
Anyway....i am serious about wanting a hybrid game....BUT....hybrid of Gaelic and Ice Hockey and Aust Football. The big ingredient being Ice Hockey (the physicality part), as opposed to making AFL soft(er) to match Gaelic. So...100 meter rectangular field, 11 players (say), oval ball, AFL and/or Gaelic goals, but turned into more of a contact sport like hockey, rather than less, like soccer.
GAA implementing marks, etc, gradually, and AFL implementing some of the softer stuff that exists in Gaelic. Because that was a big complaint by the Irish---the AFL game was more contact sport than Gaelic is (which is more checking), and that for the Irish to be able to compete there needs to be an effort by both leagues to hybrid the games.
Anyway....i am serious about wanting a hybrid game....BUT....hybrid of Gaelic and Ice Hockey and Aust Football. The big ingredient being Ice Hockey (the physicality part), as opposed to making AFL soft(er) to match Gaelic. So...100 meter rectangular field, 11 players (say), oval ball, AFL and/or Gaelic goals, but turned into more of a contact sport like hockey, rather than less, like soccer.
TheGreatBarryB
Hall of Famer
Exe Gesis
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lol..which part "wtf"? Or all parts?
Elaborate.
Elaborate.
TheGreatBarryB
Hall of Famer
The whole Gaelic thing for starters. No one including the AFL gives a shit about Gaelic football until a little window at the end of the season.
And the hybrid part. If if you don't like Aussie rules just avoid it. Silly ideas to Americanise AFL is just laughable. It was like your ideas on hybrid form of cricket on the Cricket forum to spruce it up. Again no offence GG, great moderator and all but what a load of utter garbage!!!!!!!!
Thank **** you're not a sports administrator.
And the hybrid part. If if you don't like Aussie rules just avoid it. Silly ideas to Americanise AFL is just laughable. It was like your ideas on hybrid form of cricket on the Cricket forum to spruce it up. Again no offence GG, great moderator and all but what a load of utter garbage!!!!!!!!
Thank **** you're not a sports administrator.
