Who is the true goat in Tennis ?

[Mikevk123]

I’m going to go through stats and match’s up on who the greatest men’s tennis players of all time are. This is going to be very in depth so worth the read!

 

[pepsi]

I’m going to go through stats and match’s up on who the greatest men’s tennis players of all time are. This is going to be very in depth so worth the read!

I've been meaning to do something regarding this, comparing Federer-Nadal-Djokovic. Not from a personal opinion point of view, from simply a statistics based look.

Stats that I think should be included:
- Head to head in each of the 3 matchups, with a break down of surface (Hard, Clay, Grass, Indoor)
- Number of Semis, Finals, Titles in grand slams for each of them
- Who they had to defeat in the semi and final to win each of their grand slams
- Number of weeks at #1
- Number of titles and runner up
- Number of Year end #1

 

[Mikevk123]

I’m doing it now thanks for a few ideas !

I've been meaning to do something regarding this, comparing Federer-Nadal-Djokovic. Not from a personal opinion point of view, from simply a statistics based look.

Stats that I think should be included:
- Head to head in each of the 3 matchups, with a break down of surface (Hard, Clay, Grass, Indoor)
- Number of Semis, Finals, Titles in grand slams for each of them
- Who they had to defeat in the semi and final to win each of their grand slams
- Number of weeks at #1
- Number of titles and runner up
- Number of Year end #1
[/QUOTE

 

[Mikevk123]

Roger Federer Stats





1 2003 Wimbledon Win vs Mark Philippoussis


7-6, 6-2, 7-6





2 2004 Australian Open Win vs Marat Safin


7-6, 6-4, 6-2





3 2004 Wimbledon Win vs Andy Roddick


4-6, 7-5, 7-6, 6-4





4 2004 US Open Win vs Lleyton Hewitt


6-0, 7-6, 6-0





5 2005 Wimbledon Win vs Andy Roddick


6-2, 7-6, 6-4





6 2005 US Open Win vs Andrei Agassi


6-3, 2-6, 7-6, 6-1





7 2006 Australian Open Win vs Marcos Baghdatis


5-7, 7-5, 6-0, 6-2





8 2006 French Open Loss vs Rafael Nadal


6-1, 1-6, 4-6, 6-7





9 2006 Wimbledon Win vs Rafael Nadal


6-0, 7-6, 6-7, 6-3





10 2006 US Open Win vs Andy Roddick


6-2, 4-6, 7-5, 6-1





11 2007 Australian Open Win vs Fernando González


7-6, 6-4, 6-4





12 2007 French Open Loss vs Rafael Nadal


3-6, 6-4, 3-6, 4-6





13 2007 Wimbledon Win vs Rafael Nadal


7-6, 4-6, 7-6, 2-6, 6-2





14 2007 US Open Win vs Novak Djokovic


7-6, 7-6, 6-4





15 2008 French Open Loss vs Rafael Nadal


1-6, 3-6, 0-6





16 2008 Wimbledon Loss vs Rafael Nadal


4-6, 4-6, 7-6, 7-6, 7-9





17 2008 US Open Win vs Andy Murray


6-2, 7-5, 6-2





18 2009 Australian Open Loss vs Rafael Nadal


5-7, 6-3, 6-7, 6-3, 2-6





19 2009 French Open Win vs Robin Söderling


6-1, 7-6, 6-4





20 2009 Wimbledon Win vs Andy Roddick


5-7, 7-6, 7-6, 3-6, 16-14





21 2009 US Open Loss vs Juan Martin Del Potro


6-3, 6-7, 6-4, 6-7, 2-6





22 2010 Australian Open Win vs Andy Murray


6-3, 6-4, 7-6





23 2011 French Open Loss vs Rafael Nadal


5-7, 6-7, 7-5, 1-6





24 2012 Wimbledon Win vs Andy Murray


4-6, 7-5, 6-3, 6-4





25 2014 Wimbledon Loss vs Novak Djokovic


7-6, 4-6, 6-7, 7-5, 4-6





26 2015 Wimbledon Loss vs Novak Djokovic


6-7, 7-6, 4-6, 3-6





27 2015 US Open Loss vs Novak Djokovic


4-6, 7-5, 4-6, 4-6





28 2017 Australian Open Win vs Rafael Nadal


6-4, 3-6, 6-1, 3-6, 6-3





29 2017 Wimbledon Win vs Marian Cilic


6-3, 6-1, 6-4





30 2018 Australian Open Win vs Marian Cilic


6-2, 7-6, 6-3, 3-6, 6-1





31 2019 Wimbledon Loss vs Novak Djokovic


6-7, 6-1, 6-7, 6-4, 12-13





Roger Federer


Australian Open: W6 L1 Overall W97 L14 87%


French Open: W1 L4 Overall W70 L17 80%


Wimbledon: W8 L4 Overall W101 L13 89%


US Open: W5 L2 Overall W85 L13 87%





Title Finals


Year End Championships: W6 L4


Olympic Games: W0 L1


ATP Masters 1000: W28 L22


ATP 500: W23 L7


ATP 250: W25 L9





Titles W102 L54 Overall 156








Olympics Games


Silver Medal Singles 2012


Gold Medal Doubles 2008





Ranking Number 1


310 Weeks Overall


237 Weeks Consecutive





Overall Record


W1222 L265 82.2%





Surfaces


Hard court: W762 L149 84%


Grass: W187 L27 87%


Clay: W223 L70 76%


Carpet: W50 L19 72%


Outdoor: W926 L196 82%


Indoor: W290 L68 81%

 

[Mikevk123]

Rafael Nadal Stats





1 2005 French Open Win vs Mariano Puerta


6-7, 6-3, 6-1, 7-5





2 2006 French Open Win vs Roger Federer


1-6, 6-1, 6-4, 7-6





3 2006 Wimbledon Loss vs Roger Federer


0-6, 6-7, 7-6, 3-6





4 2007 French Open Win vs Roger Federer


6-3, 4-6, 6-3, 6-4





5 2007 Wimbledon Loss vs Roger Federer


6-7, 6-4, 6-7, 6-2, 2-6





6 2008 French Open Win vs Roger Federer


6-1, 6-3, 6-0





7 2008 Wimbledon Win vs Roger Federer


6-4, 6-4, 6-7, 6-7, 9-7





8 2009 Australian Open Win vs Roger Federer


7-5, 3-6, 7-6, 3-6, 6-2





9 2010 French Open Win vs Robin Söderling


6-4, 6-2, 6-4





10 2010 Wimbledon Win vs Thomas Berdych


6-3, 7-5, 6-4





11 2010 US Open Win vs Novak Djokovic


6-4, 5-7, 6-4, 6-2





12 2011 French Open Win vs Roger Federer


7-5, 7-6, 5-7, 6-1





13 2011 Wimbledon Loss vs Novak Djokovic


4-6, 1-6, 6-1, 3-6





14 2011 US Open Loss vs Novak Djokovic


2-6, 4-6, 7-6, 1-6





15 2012 Australian Open Loss vs Novak Djokovic


7-5, 4-6, 2-6, 7-6, 5-7





16 2012 French Open Win vs Novak Djokovic


6-4, 6-3, 2-6, 7-5





17 2013 French Open Win vs David Ferrer


6-3, 6-2, 6-3





18 2013 US Open Win vs Novak Djokovic


6-2, 3-6, 6-4, 6-1





19 2014 Australian Open Loss vs Stan Wawrinka


3-6, 2-6, 6-3, 3-6





20 2014 French Open Win vs Novak Djokovic


3-6, 7-5, 6-2, 6-4





21 2017 Australian Open Loss vs Roger Federer


4-6, 6-3, 1-6, 6-3, 3-6





22 2017 French Open Win vs Stan Wawrinka


6-2, 6-3, 6-2





23 2017 US Open Win vs Kevin Anderson


6-3, 6-3, 6-4





24 2018 French Olsen Win vs Dominic Thiem


6-4, 6-3, 6-2





25 2019 Australian Open Loss vs Novak Djokovic


3-6, 2-6, 3-6





26 2019 French Open Win vs Dominic Thiem


6-3, 5-7, 6-1, 6-1





Australian Open: W1 L4 Overall W63 L13 82%


French Open: W12 L0 Overall W92 L2 98%


Wimbledon: W2 L3 Overall W53 L12 82%


US Open: W3 L1 Overall W58 L11 84%





Title Finals


Year End championship: W0 L2


Olympics Games: W1 L0


ATP Masters 1000: W34 L16


ATP 500: W20 L6


ATP 250: W9 L5





Titles: W82 L37 Overall 119





Olympics Games


2008 Gold Medal Singles


2016 Gold Medal Doubles





Ranking Number 1


196 Weeks Overall


56 Weeks consecutive





Overall Record


W956 L196 83%





Surfaces


Hard Court: W447 L131 77%


Clay: W436 L39 92%


Grass: W71 L20 78%


Carpet: W2 L6 25%


Outdoor: W878 L159 85%


Indoor: W78 L37 68%

 

[Mikevk123]

Novak Djokovic Stats





1 2007 US Open Loss vs Roger Federer


6-7, 6-7, 4-6





2 2008 Australian Open Win vs Jo-Wilfred Tsonga


4-6, 6-4, 6-3, 7-6





3 2010 US Open Loss vs Rafael Nadal


4-6, 7-5, 4-6, 2-6





4 2011 Australian Open Win vs Andy Murray


6-4, 6-2, 6-3





5 2011 Wimbledon Win vs Rafael Nadal


6-4, 6-1, 1-6, 6-3





6 2011 US Open Win vs Rafael Nadal


6-2, 6-4, 6-7, 6-1





7 2012 Australian Open Win Vs Rafael Nadal


5-7, 6-4, 6-2, 6-7, 7-5





8 2012 French Open Loss vs Rafael Nadal


4-6, 3-6, 6-2, 5-7





9 2012 US Open Loss vs Andy Murray


6-7, 5-7, 6-2, 6-3, 2-6





10 2013 Australian Open Win vs Andy Murray


6-7, 7-6, 6-3, 6-2





11 2013 Wimbledon Loss vs Andy Murray


4-6, 5-7, 4-6





12 2013 US Open Loss vs Rafael Nadal


2-6, 6-3, 4-6, 1-6





13 2014 French Open Loss vs Rafael Nadal


6-3, 5-7, 2-6, 4-6





14 2014 Wimbledon Win vs Roger Federer


6-7, 6-4, 7-6, 5-7, 6-4





15 2015 Australian Open Win vs Andy Murray


7-6, 6-7, 6-3, 6-0





16 2015 French Open Loss vs Stan Wawrinka


6-4, 4-6, 3-6, 4-6





17 2015 Wimbledon Win vs Roger Federer


7-6, 6-7, 6-4, 6-3





18 2015 US Open Win vs Roger Federer


6-4, 5-7, 6-4, 6-4





19 2016 Australian Open Win vs Andy Murray


6-1, 7-5, 7-6





20 2016 French Open Win vs Andy Murray


3-6, 6-1, 6-2, 6-4





21 2016 US open Loss vs Stan Wawrinka


7-6, 4-6, 5-7, 3-6





22 2018 Wimbledon Win vs Kevin Anderson


6-2, 6-2, 7-6





23 2018 US Open Win vs Juan Martin Del Potro


6-3, 7-6, 6-3





24 2019 Australian Open Win vs Rafael Nadal


6-3, 6-2, 6-3





25 2019 Wimbledon Win vs Roger Federer


7-6, 1-6, 7-6, 4-6, 13-12








Australian Open: W7 L0 Overall W68 L8 89%


French Open: W1 L3 Overall W68 L14 83%


Wimbledon: W5 L1 Overall W72 L10 88%


US Open: W3 L5 Overall W69 L10 87%





Titles Finals


Year End championships: W5 L2


ATP Masters 1000: W33 L16


Olympic Games: W0 L0


ATP 500: W12 L3


ATP 250: W9 L4





Titles W75 L34 Overall 109





Olympics Games


2008 Bronze Medal Singles





Ranking Number 1


260 Weeks Overall


122 Weeks consecutive





Overall record


W871 L182 83%





Hard Court: W552 L105 84%


Clay: W215 L55 80%


Grass: W95 L18 84%


Carpet: W9 L4 69%


Outdoor: W728 L142 84%


Indoor: W143 L40 78%

 

[Mikevk123]

Rafael Nadal vs Roger Federer

1. 2004 Miami Open Hard. Nadal
2. 2005 Miami Open Hard. Federer
3. 2005 French Open Clay. Nadal
4. 2006 Dubai Hard. Nadal
5. 2006 Monte Carlo Clay. Nadal
6. 2006 Italian Open Clay. Nadal
7. 2006 French Open Clay. Nadal
8. 2006 Wimbledon Grass. Federer
9. 2006 Masters Cup Hard. Federer
10. 2007 Monte Carlo Clay. Nadal
11. 2007 Hamburg Clay. Federer
12. 2007 French Open Clay. Nadal
13. 2007 Wimbledon Grass. Federer
14. 2007 Masters Cup Hard. Federer
15. 2008 Monte Carlo Clay. Nadal
16. 2008 Hamburg Clay. Nadal
17. 2008 French Open Clay. Nadal
18. 2008 Wimbledon Grass. Nadal
19. 2009 Australian Open. Nadal
20. 2009 Madrid Clay. Federer
21. 2010 Madrid Clay. Nadal
22. 2010 World Tour Finals Hard. Federer
23. 2011 Miami Hard. Nadal
24. 2011 Madrid Clay. Nadal
25. 2011 French Open Clay. Nadal
26. 2011 World Tour Finals Hard. Federer
27. 2012 Australian Open Hard. Nadal
28. 2012 Indian Wells Hard. Federer
29. 2013 Indian Wells Hard. Nadal
30. 2013 Italian Open Clay. Nadal
31. 2013 Cincinnati Hard. Nadal
32. 2013 World Tour Finals Hard. Nadal
33. 2014 Australian Open Hard. Nadal
34. 2015 Swiss Indoors Hard. Federer
35. 2017 Australian Open Hard. Federer
36. 2017 Indian Wells Hard. Federer
37. 2017 Miami Open Hard. Federer
38. 2017 Shanghai Hard. Federer
39. 2019 Indian Wells Hard. Federer
40. 2019 French Open Clay. Nadal
41. 2019 Wimbledon Grass. Federer

Nadal 24-16 Federer





Australian Open: Nadal 3-1 Federer


French Open: Nadal 6-0 Federer


Wimbledon: Federer 3-1 Nadal


US Open: Yet to meet





Hard: Federer 22-18 Nadal


Clay: Nadal 14-2 Federer


Grass: Federer 3-1 Nadal

 

[Mikevk123]

Roger Federer vs Novak Djokovic

1. 2006 Monte Carlo Clay. Federer
2. 2006 Davis Cup Hard. Federer
3. 2007 Australian Open Hard. Federer
4. 2007 Dubai Hard. Federer
5. 2007 Canadian Open. Djokovic
6. 2007 US Open Hard. Federer
7. 2008 Australian Open Hard. Djokovic
8. 2008 Monte Carlo Clay. Federer
9. 2008 US Open Hard. Federer
10. 2009 Miami Open Hard. Djokovic
11. 2009 Italian Open Clay. Djokovic
12. 2009 Cincinnati Hard. Federer
13. 2009 US Open Hard. Federer
14. 2009 Swiss Indoors Hard. Djokovic
15. 2010 Canadian Open Hard. Federer
16. 2010 US Open Hard. Djokovic
17. 2010 Shanghai Hard. Federer
18. 2010 Swiss Indoors Hard. Federer
19. 2010 World Tour Finals Hard. Federer
20. 2011 Australian Open Hard. Djokovic
21. 2011 Dubai Hard. Djokovic
22. 2011 Indian Wells Hard. Djokovic
23. 2011 French Open Clay. Federer
24. 2011 US Open Hard. Djokovic
25. 2012 Italian Open Clay. Djokovic
26. 2012 French Open Clay. Djokovic
27. 2012 Wimbledon Grass. Federer
28. 2012 Cincinnati Hard. Federer
29. 2012 World Tour Finals Hard. Djokovic
30. 2013 Paris Masters Hard. Djokovic
31. 2013 World Tour Finals Hard. Djokovic
32. 2014 Dubai Hard. Federer
33. 2014 Indian Wells Hard. Djokovic
34. 2014 Monte Carlo Clay. Federer
35. 2014 Wimbledon Grass. Djokovic
36. 2014 Shanghai Hard. Djokovic
37. 2014 World Tour Finals Hard. Djokovic
38. 2015 Dubai Hard. Federer
39. 2015 Indian Wells Hard. Djokovic
40. 2015 Italian Open Clay. Djokovic
41. 2015 Wimbledon Grass. Djokovic
42. 2015 Cincinnati Hard. Federer
43. 2015 US Open Hard. Djokovic
44. 2015 World Tour Finals Hard. Federer
45. 2015 World Tour Finals Hard. Djokovic
46. 2016 Australian Open Hard. Djokovic
47. 2018 Cincinnati Hard. Djokovic
48. 2018 Paris Masters Hard. Djokovic
49. 2019 Wimbledon Grass. Djokovic

Djokovic 26-22 Federer





Australian Open: Djokovic 3-1 Federer


French Open: Djokovic 1-1 Federer


Wimbledon: Djokovic 3-1 Federer


US Open: Federer 3-3 Djokovic





Hard: Djokovic 19-17 Federer


Clay: Federer 4-4 Djokovic


Grass: Djokovic 3-1 Federer

 

[Mikevk123]

Rafael Nadal vs Novak Djokovic

1. 2006 French Open Clay. Nadal
2. 2007 Indian Wells Hard. Nadal
3. 2007 Miami Open Hard. Djokovic
4. 2007 Italian Open Clay. Nadal
5. 2007 French Open Clay. Nadal
6. 2007 Wimbledon Grass. Nadal
7. 2007 Canadian Open Hard. Djokovic
8. 2007 Masters Cup Hard. Nadal
9. 2008 Indian Wells Hard. Djokovic
10. 2008 Hamburg Clay. Nadal
11. 2008 French Open Clay. Nadal
12. 2008 Queens Grass. Nadal
13. 2008 Cincinnati Hard. Djokovic
14. 2008 Olympics Hard. Nadal
15. 2009 David Cup Clay. Nadal
16. 2009 Monte Carlo Clay. Nadal
17. 2009 Italian Open Clay. Nadal
18. 2009 Madrid Clay. Nadal
19. 2009 Cincinnati Hard. Djokovic
20. 2009 Paris Masters Hard. Djokovic
21. 2009 World Tour Finals Hard. Djokovic
22. 2010 US Open Hard. Nadal
23. 2010 World Tour Finals Hard. Nadal
24. 2011 Indian Wells Hard. Djokovic
25. 2011 Miami Open Hard. Djokovic
26. 2011 Madrid Clay. Djokovic
27. 2011 Italian Open Clay. Djokovic
28. 2011 Wimbledon Grass. Djokovic
29. 2011 US Open Hard. Djokovic
30. 2012 Australian Open Hard. Djokovic
31. 2012 Monte Carlo Clay. Nadal
32. 2012 Italian Open Clay. Nadal
33. 2012 French Open Clay. Nadal
34. 2013 Monte Carlo Clay. Djokovic
35. 2013 French Open Clay. Nadal
36. 2013 Canadian Open Hard. Nadal
37. 2013 US Open Hard. Nadal
38. 2013 China Open Hard. Djokovic
39. 2013 World Tour Finals Hard. Djokovic
40. 2014 Miami Open Hard. Djokovic
41. 2014 Italian Open Clay. Djokovic
42. 2014 French Open Clay. Nadal
43. 2015 Monte Carlo Clay. Djokovic
44. 2015 French Open Clay. Djokovic
45. 2015 China Open Hard. Djokovic
46. 2015 World Tour Finals Hard. Djokovic
47. 2016 Qatar Open Hard. Djokovic
48. 2016 Indian Wells Hard. Djokovic
49. 2016 Italian Open Clay. Djokovic
50. 2017 Madrid Open Clay. Nadal
51. 2018 Italian Open Clay. Nadal
52. 2018 Wimbledon Grass. Djokovic
53. 2019 Australian Open Hard. Djokovic
54. 2019 Italian Open Clay. Nadal

Djokovic 28-26 Nadal





Australian Open: Djokovic 2-0 Nadal


French Open: Nadal 6-1 Djokovic


Wimbledon: Djokovic 2-1 Nadal


US Open: Nadal 2-1 Djokovic





Clay: Nadal 17-7 Djokovic


Hard: Djokovic 19-7 Nadal


Grass: Djokovic 2-2 Nadal

 

[Roobs321]

Mens: Before Fedalovic kept killing it into their 30s, I would've said Laver followed by Borg.

 

[magpies42]

So for me it has to be between Nadal and Djokovic, and purely because of the head to head...Federer has been smashed by both. Grand slams are one measure but not the ultimate measure in my opinion, you also have to look at who they beat to win the finals. Fed had it pretty easy going early days, not many household names in their prime.

For me at this current point in time it’s Nadal, 3 more grand slams even though he has an inferior head to head with Novak. Novak wins this Aus open and I think things start to swing in his favour.

 

[Thrawn]

So for me it has to be between Nadal and Djokovic, and purely because of the head to head...Federer has been smashed by both. Grand slams are one measure but not the ultimate measure in my opinion, you also have to look at who they beat to win the finals. Fed had it pretty easy going early days, not many household names in their prime.

For me at this current point in time it’s Nadal, 3 more grand slams even though he has an inferior head to head with Novak. Novak wins this Aus open and I think things start to swing in his favour.

Your reasoning is laughable. Head to head doesn't supersede grand slam victories, number of titles and weeks at #1 and all the other records Federer holds.

Smashed? Majority of victories by Nadal vs Federer has been on clay - one surface. It's like 1-6 Federer's favour the last seven times. Federer and Djoker matches have been very tight for the most part, and it's not like the H2H there is unassailable.

As for "had it pretty easy", well no, it's not "easy" to win so many GS titles. The players Federer faced - Hewitt, Safin, Nalbandian, etc were no sloushes either. Look at the field Nadal and Djokovic played with aside from Federer - he's beaten them all too. In fact, aside from Murray and Stan The Man, can you name a "household name" outside the big three?

If Federer was a little bit mentally stronger, he'd have 2-3 more GS titles and a positive H2H vs Djokovic. But he's still four ahead and that's all that matters. Can't see the latter sustaining his gamestyle at Federer's age.

 

[Caesar]

This is not a question that can be answered with statistics, given how much the game has changed over its history.

 

[pepsi]

This is not a question that can be answered with statistics, given how much the game has changed over its history.

It's not a question that can be answered until they have all retired.

 

[Caesar]

It's not a question that can be answered until they have all retired.

That's assuming any of the contenders are still playing.

 

[BobbyMorri]

It is not a question which has a right answer either. Really is based on personal choice nowadays.

For me, Fed is the GOAT. But I grew up with him dominating like no man has done before for such a long long long period of time. The number of semi-finals he made in a row, how is playing well into his 30's and still, winning grand slams. That longevity will be unmatched and is helped by his control with the racquet rather than his physical strengths. Plus, he has a 1 hand backhand and I am biased towards players with those.

But if I had to pick just 1 tennis player to play for me, I would pick Nadal on clay, Novak on Hardcourts and Fed on Grass.

 

[pepsi]

That's assuming any of the contenders are still playing.

If you don't consider Federer, Nadal or djokovic as contenders that's your opinion. Their records, my observations and statements from past champions of the game certainly indicate that they should be considered. Of course there are others from past generations that should be considered.

 

[Roobs321]

I've honestly lost all interest in comparing the three and their slam tallies.

Laver-Borg-Big3-top handful-done.

It should just be about making the better-than-Sampras club. Pancho Gonzales & Rosewall I put about equal to Sampras, because of their exemplary Pro Slam record, years spent at #1 or close to it, and longevity.

Borg is the only player outside of those 2 eras I'd consider, although understand the arguments for others.

 

[dustysnecktattoo]

It's still Roger, just

this page helped me make that decision

List of Grand Slam and related tennis records - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Flameboy]

I think statistics will favour Djokovic and Nadal when everything is done and dusted, but I also don’t think it really matters anymore (imo). They’ve created history together and will all be remembered as titans of the sport.

 

[dustysnecktattoo]

I think statistics will favour Djokovic and Nadal when everything is done and dusted, but I also don’t think it really matters anymore (imo). They’ve created history together and will all be remembered as titans of the sport.

but there can only be one goat! They certainly fit best era as a group ever, each generation will seemingly having the same conversation for there current dominators , it’s pointless

 

[magpies42]

Your reasoning is laughable. Head to head doesn't supersede grand slam victories, number of titles and weeks at #1 and all the other records Federer holds.

Smashed? Majority of victories by Nadal vs Federer has been on clay - one surface. It's like 1-6 Federer's favour the last seven times. Federer and Djoker matches have been very tight for the most part, and it's not like the H2H there is unassailable.

As for "had it pretty easy", well no, it's not "easy" to win so many GS titles. The players Federer faced - Hewitt, Safin, Nalbandian, etc were no sloushes either. Look at the field Nadal and Djokovic played with aside from Federer - he's beaten them all too. In fact, aside from Murray and Stan The Man, can you name a "household name" outside the big three?

If Federer was a little bit mentally stronger, he'd have 2-3 more GS titles and a positive H2H vs Djokovic. But he's still four ahead and that's all that matters. Can't see the latter sustaining his gamestyle at Federer's age.

Why have your own thoughts when you can regurgitate tabloid trash. Fairly simplistic argument, allow me to dissect it for you.

Where did I say superseded? Grand slams are clearly a key indicator, I take a balanced scorecard approach tennis is a complex game. In my view, and objectively speaking it’s hard to say someone is GOAT when they have been soundly beaten more often than not and particularly in the big moments. It’s like saying you’re a better artist than Pablo Picasso because you colour inside the lines.

Head to head on clay or head to head on grass, what’s your point? 1+1 is not 3. The fact that he has lost close matches to Djokovic reaffirms my point, a GOAT wins the big games. A GOAT should also winon all surfaces.

Aside from Safin, who was a part timer at best, the rest were just place holders between two great eras of tennis. Have a look at the stats and which players had the tougher match ups in grand slam finals. Not to mention also the tougher treatment with scheduling at tournaments and crowds etc. The big 3 have raised the game to such a high level that compare the next 20 best is not fair. Anyone of those would have been number 1 when Hewitt was or a more competitive number 2 than Andy, I have a good first serve and nothing else, Roddick. Did you know that when doing word finds sometimes the words are hidden up and down the page?

If Federer was more mentally strong, if you could think for yourself I would t be wasting my time now...

Don’t believe everything you read, sponsors have agendas and dictate the story...doesn’t mean it’s true.

 

[Thrawn]

Why have your own thoughts when you can regurgitate tabloid trash. Fairly simplistic argument, allow me to dissect it for you.

Where did I say superseded? Grand slams are clearly a key indicator, I take a balanced scorecard approach tennis is a complex game. In my view, and objectively speaking it’s hard to say someone is GOAT when they have been soundly beaten more often than not and particularly in the big moments. It’s like saying you’re a better artist than Pablo Picasso because you colour inside the lines.

Head to head on clay or head to head on grass, what’s your point? 1+1 is not 3. The fact that he has lost close matches to Djokovic reaffirms my point, a GOAT wins the big games. A GOAT should also winon all surfaces.

Aside from Safin, who was a part timer at best, the rest were just place holders between two great eras of tennis. Have a look at the stats and which players had the tougher match ups in grand slam finals. Not to mention also the tougher treatment with scheduling at tournaments and crowds etc. The big 3 have raised the game to such a high level that compare the next 20 best is not fair. Anyone of those would have been number 1 when Hewitt was or a more competitive number 2 than Andy, I have a good first serve and nothing else, Roddick. Did you know that when doing word finds sometimes the words are hidden up and down the page?

If Federer was more mentally strong, if you could think for yourself I would t be wasting my time now...

Don’t believe everything you read, sponsors have agendas and dictate the story...doesn’t mean it’s true.

Right, I'm a drone because reasons (never mind the fact I don't read tabloids). I don't even read newspapers regardless and you're so smugly confident I blindly read and nod my head at random articles? Get over yourself you git.

You said you rate the two ahead as far as GOAT terms go "purely because of the head to head"... then you make the statement that "Grand slams are one measure but not the ultimate measure". You are indeed superseding head to head over GS titles, because the ultimate measure will always be grand slams. That's what tennis players play for and that's what they want, above all else. This is not a subjective thing either. And saying Federer has been "soundly beaten more often than not" is just a ridiculous lie. Federer has won on all surfaces, holds the joint-US record, stands alone on Wimbledon, and is only one short tying on Aus Open record (which he held briefly). The only reason why he and Djokovic didn't win more FOs was because one one man, who's simply better than them on clay.

You're making it look like Federer has been "smashed" but that simply isn't the case, which is why I used those examples. There have been many matches between Federer and Djoker that could've gone either way... and in a few it's simply a case of a few mm difference (as it was last year when Federer was 40-15 in Wimbledon in a match that he would've won 9 times out of ten). Federer has won many, many more big matches than he has lost, so that argument doesn't really work. And it's not like Nadal and Djokovic are impervious either - they have, too, lost big games they should have won (against lesser opponents). That doesn't diminish their greatness though, neither should be the case for Federer.

"A part timer" - have you ever even seen him play? The guy had the potential to be a GOAT as well. You cannot really say how well someone like a Djokovic would've faired when Federer was at the peak of his powers... the only reason why you call these other players "placeholders" was because Federer simply didn't let them win. He was that dominant.

Sponsors have agendas and dictate the story? If you could think for yourself? What is this crap? That's not an argument. Please realise that there are other people here who have been watching these players' careers for years and not necessarily think the same way you do, like over-inflating the importance of H2H. Just because they don't doesn't mean they're just "parroting" what is said in the media and by "sponsors". Like I am going to give two shits what Nike and Uniqlo say?

 

[pepsi]

Interesting stat I saw mentioned on twitter today. Federer had won 12 grand slams and Nadal 3 before djokovic won his first in 2008.

 

[Jack Gun Cyril Stun]

Interesting stat I saw mentioned on twitter today. Federer had won 12 grand slams and Nadal 3 before djokovic won his first in 2008.

Yes a compelling case for him to be considered the best of the current 3.
Since then he’s won 16 to rafas 16 (but 9 of those obviously all on one surface)

He also won all 4 slams in a row which the others could never do.

He has bested Fed 3 times to zero in the final of Feds best major/ surface

He has beaten Rafa at the French and at stages dominated him (7 in a row at two different stages of their career including 3 GS in a row)