GOAT debate is well and truely over! Novak is the best player there is and was. Roger and Rafa are both greats but not the greatest. I read lot of opinions on here from roger fans but everyone else is speaking facts. You can’t argue otherwise.
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Who is the true goat in Tennis ?
- Thread starter Mikevk123
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How about this one
H. Hurkacz d. Roger Federer 6-3 7-6 6-0
just 10 days ago.or what about this head to head 27-23
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- #353
I am going to guess that is the Novak head to head to Federer. In which case, I am surprised it is that close to Novak favour. Hurkacz won Miami. A fact I have to write a lot to believe so it sinks in one day. You are not a bad player if you win that tournament.How about this one
H. Hurkacz d. Roger Federer 6-3 7-6 6-0
or what about this head to head 27-23
I actually find the whole GOAT argument tiresome(ITS BEEN 15 YEARS ALREADY!!!) and don't really notice too many stats or details. I dont really care. The debate is full of fanbois. I hate fanbois, they annoy the crap of me. . fanbois fail to see reason or sense, incredibly annoying, terribly biased and toxic. The abuse some tennis journos get from these "fans" for the smallest things is quite sad and pathetic.
I cheer against the big 3 in most matches. I am that person.
not exactly surprising 7-2 federer led what’s hilarious is Novak has gone 22-9 since 2011.
let me remind you the title of this thread my friend, if you don’t care then why are you here. We are talking facts, facts don’t care about feelings.
- Moderator
- #355
Cause someone has to.
I do find some arguments stupid. The fact that we are in some kind of "golden age" of men's tennis is laughable to me when the depth of the ATP is non-existent and has been for years. There have been signs of life in the newer guys but well, Theim.
My advise to you would be live in the moment. You won’t know they are the golden years until they have passed and you look back. We have had some incredible depth since 2008.
- Murray
- Wawrinka
- Del Porto
- Cilic
- Thiem
there are others but IMO below these guys due to not winning a grand slam. Plenty of finalists that also lost.
- Moderator
- #357
JMDP. The guy could have been a multiple grand slam winner if not for injures. Murray, Kei, Wawrinka have all had major injures. Could include Tsonga on that as well. Nadal played just two seeds in his US Open win in 2017 (Kevin Anderson and Del Porto). been complaining about it for that long.
Thiem proves my point. On that list, he is the only player who has fired a shot in the last 2-3 years. Hasn't fired anything as Covid and his first grand slam has ruined his motivation.
The younger gen is coming. Medvedev and Stefo have taken finals to 5 sets and Stefo has beaten Fed and Nadal.
RoweyThePainter
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Didnt Thiem win his only GS 10 months ago?
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- #359
yeah. And we have played 4 grand slams since. 2 French, 1 Aus and Wimbledon.
but before that, he consistently proved a match to the big 4. beat Novak at the French twice, took him to 5 in Australia, Nadal to 5 at the US, plus wins elsewhere like the YEC.
He doesn't look like rediscovering his form anytime soon either. out injured and I think he changed his management team.
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RoweyThePainter
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"he is the only player who has fired a shot in the last 2-3 years. Hasn't fired anything as Covid and his first grand slam has ruined his motivation"
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- #361
What is wrong with that statement.
Thiem is ranked 34th this year. He won his first GS last year. Before that, he was a genuine threat.
RoweyThePainter
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You said 2 to 3 years..he won a GS 10 months ago. Who has beaten Novak since?
Those young guys can drop down and rise back up, especily in current situation.
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- #363
Domi Thiem has actually. at the year end champs at the end of 2020 in 3.
He hasn't been right this year. injures, motivation. I think you can make the case for both.
Thiem is not young. he is 27. and he was consistent. the guy could have 2 or 3 French opens if it wasn't for a certain Spaniard.
I like car racing and have gotten caught up in similar discussions over who is the greatest driver on other sites. There's a similar pattern of discussion I've seen on here and the other thread.
What I've found when discussing drivers is that contrary to what such a statistic would tell you, accumulated success doesn't necessarily mean the best/greatest overall. Accumulated success is down to other factors like hanging around longer, more opportunities, and favourable terms/conditions.
What I've found in car racing is that once you've accumulated a certain amount of success, it doesn't matter how much more you accumulate and it doesn't necessarily make you superior to one that has accumulated fewer victories.
I've heard Todd Woodbridge on the radio this week saying that 6 slams was the revered figure because that's how many Stefan Edberg won back in the day. So say if about 6 slams were the threshold, the player's point has been made, and accumulating more success is just accumulating more success but doesn't mean much regarding merit. High accumulated success can also be cheapening.
If around 6 slams is the threshold, then it's about analysing how they got to that point, which then brings in a lot of other great players into the discussion.
What I've found when discussing drivers is that contrary to what such a statistic would tell you, accumulated success doesn't necessarily mean the best/greatest overall. Accumulated success is down to other factors like hanging around longer, more opportunities, and favourable terms/conditions.
What I've found in car racing is that once you've accumulated a certain amount of success, it doesn't matter how much more you accumulate and it doesn't necessarily make you superior to one that has accumulated fewer victories.
I've heard Todd Woodbridge on the radio this week saying that 6 slams was the revered figure because that's how many Stefan Edberg won back in the day. So say if about 6 slams were the threshold, the player's point has been made, and accumulating more success is just accumulating more success but doesn't mean much regarding merit. High accumulated success can also be cheapening.
If around 6 slams is the threshold, then it's about analysing how they got to that point, which then brings in a lot of other great players into the discussion.
RoweyThePainter
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I think that is rubbish. Wawrinka is as good as Nadal by such logic.
With respect, I don't think you've read my post properly.
Djokovic will statistically end up the GOAT, no doubt about that. Fascinating discussion overall though which will rage for years. Clearly the 3 best players ever all played and competed in a truly golden era for tennis. We will never see this again in my opinion. They are all great championships and legends of the sport, but fed will always be my favourite. Doesn't have the athleticism of the other two, but perfection when on song. Rafa skewed heavily by clay, but just a beast who never gives up a point. But Djokovic just the complete package. We'll all be pining for these days once they are all finished
RoweyThePainter
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What was my misinterpretation?
If it's the numbers, there are far more F1 races a year than Grand Slams so I adjusted comparison accordingly.
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Wawrinka only won 3.
I think F1 is different to tennis in the fact that the cars are all different. Senna, in terms of stats, is nowhere near as good as Lewis Hamilton or Schumacher, but Senna is still widely acknowledged as better or at least equal
I am not old enough to remember but former players say Slams totals is a relatively new thing. The players in the 70's, 80's never came to Aus. for example. I can't recall Sampras ever getting a GOAT tag just because he won the most slams, but, then again, he always failed at the French due to his game style. Previously, your F1 analogy might be correct but now, fans take slams totals and all the other stats as definite and hence the race started and social media haven't been quiet since.
But only in the men's. In the Womens, Court has won the most slams but most pundits won't rate her as the best. There are tennis reasons for that, not just because no one likes her.
RoweyThePainter
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Car racing is not a sport. Otherwise I exercise 2 hours a day driving.
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John Macintosh
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F1 drivers are extremely fit athletes. Their reaction times are amazing, the amount of G-forces that their body has to resist is crazy. Let alone their bravely.
Driving your Peugeot to work doesn't compare.
RoweyThePainter
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Chess is also classed as a sport.
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- #375
good to know
