Who should be the next senior coach of Collingwood?

[No SPIN]

so we finally get to the crux of the issue - “success is fleeting because clubs compromise their positions by appointing the wrong people”
That’s is my point - but no one sets out to appoint the wrong person - you need to be lucky in getting a once in a generation coach like Kennedy or Barassi etc.
All you can do is manage risk - Clarko with his next club may never win a flag, so if that happened people would argue he was wrong person. But those appointing him would

Q.1 Yeah but the Hawks got Kennedy, then Jeans, Joyce and after a silly in house time with Schwabby, they then got Clarko.....so that's 4 out of their last 5coaches becoming Premiership coaches....that's not bad eh? (and three of them from without the club)
And Carlton had Barrassi, Jezza, (Perce Jones!!!) Parkin, Walls and Parkin again....so they had 5 Premiership coaches.....somebody was doing pretty well choosing them (and two of their best Barrassi and Parkin came from without)

Q.2 I'd argue there are some pretty sure formulae for success...get the best people in place, give them the best resources that you can and encourage them to play to their strengths. (NB: The Best Coach available is a part of the best people)
This formula worked so well that the AFL had to bring in salary caps and drafts to "equalise" the competition.

Not sure any Carlton person would put Jezza and Jones in the same league as the others. Carlton had a great team that coached themselves with Jezza and Percy. Jezza went to St Kilda with no great success and Percy to his pub.

George Harris the administrator was the genius for much of the time, who was ruthless and taught Elliot a lot. Including the paper bag strategy I suspect - which is the big cloud hanging over their success. They should have had their flags returned as happened with the Storm when found cheating.

And yes I agree that all you can do is find who you think are the best people, and history will be the judge of whether you were right.

 

[magpie_marty]

At the end of the day the coach can only do his best with the cattle he has available.
Bucks has achieved that to me.
Considering we have a lot of good ordinary players.

 

[jackcass]

Maybe not as senior coach but I’d like Steve Johnson as our forward line coach. Also Dale Tapping as our mids coach, I think he’s still at Brisbane.

I'm surprised there isn't more interest among posters in Tapping. Did really well as our VFL coach and continuing the apprenticeship currently as the Bears midfield coach. I think he's a senior coach in the making. It's just a matter of when/where that will be.

I also wonder what some of the coaches who struggled in their 1st senior tenure might be like 2nd time around. Guys like Richo (@ the Dees) and Vossy (@ Port) in particular. I think like Ratts, they'd be very different 2nd time around.

On the OP, I can't see us changing at the top until at least the end of 2021 so there's time. Whatever happens, I hope they go through a thorough process and appoint the best candidate, not just someone they've head hunted.

 

[jackcass]

Q.1 Yeah but the Hawks got Kennedy, then Jeans, Joyce and after a silly in house time with Schwabby, they then got Clarko.....so that's 4 out of their last 5coaches becoming Premiership coaches....that's not bad eh? (and three of them from without the club)
And Carlton had Barrassi, Jezza, (Perce Jones!!!) Parkin, Walls and Parkin again....so they had 5 Premiership coaches.....somebody was doing pretty well choosing them (and two of their best Barrassi and Parkin came from without)

Q.2 I'd argue there are some pretty sure formulae for success...get the best people in place, give them the best resources that you can and encourage them to play to their strengths. (NB: The Best Coach available is a part of the best people)
This formula worked so well that the AFL had to bring in salary caps and drafts to "equalise" the competition.

Those early hawks premiership coaches got more than a helping hand out of the intro of zoning strangely enough. Similarly North from the 10 year rule. Carlton are (or were) just better cheats than everyone else. All very circumstantial of course and no relevance at all to who was heading up the VFL/AFL when those rorts came to fruition.

 

[Vicky Park]

think he was made redundant due to the cutbacks brought about by Covid-19

Thought he was stood down, rather than made redundant. To get his job back when the footy dept finances/numbers allowed. But I may be wrong.

 

[Robroy22]

I'm surprised there isn't more interest among posters in Tapping. Did really well as our VFL coach and continuing the apprenticeship currently as the Bears midfield coach. I think he's a senior coach in the making. It's just a matter of when/where that will be.

I also wonder what some of the coaches who struggled in their 1st senior tenure might be like 2nd time around. Guys like Richo (@ the Dees) and Vossy (@ Port) in particular. I think like Ratts, they'd be very different 2nd time around.

On the OP, I can't see us changing at the top until at least the end of 2021 so there's time. Whatever happens, I hope they go through a thorough process and appoint the best candidate, not just someone they've head hunted.

Already mentioned him, good coach that bloke.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

 

[Len Smith Medallist]

Buckley is going nowhere this year. 1 year left on his contract and we are still in the 8 - who knows how? - and unlikely to fall out given history and Eddie has not fallen out of love. When we do change coaches - just think how far we have to fall for that to happen - change will not be instant. Imagine this list with two more years of degradation. Everyone wants Clarko and the team who can best offer him the balance between a challenge and achievable success will get him. Any coaching appointment is a roll of the dice. Who thought Beveridge, Simpson or Hardwick were world beaters?

 

[Roverjg]

I'm surprised there isn't more interest among posters in Tapping. Did really well as our VFL coach and continuing the apprenticeship currently as the Bears midfield coach. I think he's a senior coach in the making. It's just a matter of when/where that will be.

I also wonder what some of the coaches who struggled in their 1st senior tenure might be like 2nd time around. Guys like Richo (@ the Dees) and Vossy (@ Port) in particular. I think like Ratts, they'd be very different 2nd time around.

On the OP, I can't see us changing at the top until at least the end of 2021 so there's time. Whatever happens, I hope they go through a thorough process and appoint the best candidate, not just someone they've head hunted.

I like Dale Tapping, but lack of interest in him could be due to out of sight out of mind. He has had success at multiple places.

Ratts was unlucky with the Blues. The Board significantly over-estimated the teams ability and they were of the view that with the list they should be contenders, and that he had under performed. History shows he over performed with the list. The players absolutely loved him. The players at the Hawks absolutely loved him.

Vossy was apparently very divisive and he either liked you or his didn't and there were reports at the time he created divisions and wouldn't take on advice. Maybe he has been able to iron out the kinks? Gary Ayres is another?

 

[76woodenspooners]

do something different - eg, rigorous recruiting, ruthless winning culture, no emotion (eg bringing Beams back; thinking past Cwood players might necessarily be best at coaching because "they love the club")

- these Clubs have had eras of success (and their droughts) during the period I quoted (Cwood's last "era" was 90 years ago)
...
Richmond - 7 flags
...

Well, we did do something different ...

... we recruited the first senior coach to come from outside of the club, a four time Premiership coach from Richmond no less - Tom Hafey - how did that turn out for us? You‘ve said yourself that being runner up isn’t good enough. And when we got rid of Hafey mid-season we replaced him with his assistant Mick Erwin, LOL! And then John Cahill, LOL!!

We repeated the process with Malthouse, we recruited a dual Premiership winning coach ... and he came within a point of having the same Grand Final record as Hafey did for us.

No coach can guarantee Premierships.

We pick the cards, we roll the dice, and whatever will be will be ....

... and at some stage the coach has had enough, or we realise we’re not going anywhere with them, and we pick again.

Given that the last few seasons we’ve played in a Grand Final, played in a Prelim, and now in the eight part way through the most disrupted H&A season in the competition’s history, we’re a long long long way from having conversations about whether the senior coach needs to go.

 

[Horaceg]

View attachment 939909

The Collingwood Globetrotters, I'd pay to see that

 

[Horaceg]

No coach can guarantee Premierships.

Although there are some out there that can guarantee NO premierships

 

[TKiL]

Well, we did do something different ...

... we recruited the first senior coach to come from outside of the club, a four time Premiership coach from Richmond no less - Tom Hafey - how did that turn out for us? You‘ve said yourself that being runner up isn’t good enough. And when we got rid of Hafey mid-season we replaced him with his assistant Mick Erwin, LOL! And then John Cahill, LOL!!

We repeated the process with Malthouse, we recruited a dual Premiership winning coach ... and he came within a point of having the same Grand Final record as Hafey did for us.

No coach can guarantee Premierships.

We pick the cards, we roll the dice, and whatever will be will be ....

... and at some stage the coach has had enough, or we realise we’re not going anywhere with them, and we pick again.

Given that the last few seasons we’ve played in a Grand Final, played in a Prelim, and now in the eight part way through the most disrupted H&A season in the competition’s history, we’re a long long long way from having conversations about whether the senior coach needs to go.

Hafey was dead unlucky:
- took us from wooden spoon to GF in one year - Phil Carman's antics didn't help in 1977 (we were 27 points up at 3/4 time in the 1st GF)
- 1978 prelim final
- 1979 - thanks boundary umpire
- 1980 - forget it
- 1981 - in front at 3/4 time in GF

yep it ain't just the coach - more than that

 

[Doc1763]

Hafey was dead unlucky:
- took us from wooden spoon to GF in one year - Phil Carman's antics didn't help in 1977 (we were 27 points up at 3/4 time in the 1st GF)
- 1978 prelim final
- 1979 - thanks boundary umpire
- 1980 - forget it
- 1981 - in front at 3/4 time in GF

yep it ain't just the coach - more than that

I will be forever haunted by the horror of that period.

 

[gouki88]

I will be forever haunted by the horror of that period.

It still haunts my dad too. His pop (my da) was running the club for Hafey's tenure so every year we fell short it really stung. Feel like any barracker around during the mid-late 70s and early 80s is haunted by the Colliwobbles

 

[Doc1763]

It still haunts my dad too. His pop (my da) was running the club for Hafey's tenure so every year we fell short it really stung. Feel like any barracker around during the mid-late 70s and early 80s is haunted by the Colliwobbles

My Dad grew up through the 20s & 30s, I grew up through the 70s & early 80s. Doesn't seem fair!!

 

[gouki88]

My Dad grew up through the 20s & 30s, I grew up through the 70s & early 80s. Doesn't seem fair!!

Ha, same with my dad and his dad! He was born in '59 (as a result of a '58 celebration...) and my grandad was born in '20. Unfair indeed

 

[TKiL]

I will be forever haunted by the horror of that period.

the horror of just one previous GF might outdo the collective horror of the unlucky Tom Hafey era

 

[Roverjg]

Well, we did do something different ...

... we recruited the first senior coach to come from outside of the club, a four time Premiership coach from Richmond no less - Tom Hafey - how did that turn out for us? You‘ve said yourself that being runner up isn’t good enough. And when we got rid of Hafey mid-season we replaced him with his assistant Mick Erwin, LOL! And then John Cahill, LOL!!

We repeated the process with Malthouse, we recruited a dual Premiership winning coach ... and he came within a point of having the same Grand Final record as Hafey did for us.

No coach can guarantee Premierships.

We pick the cards, we roll the dice, and whatever will be will be ....

... and at some stage the coach has had enough, or we realise we’re not going anywhere with them, and we pick again.

Given that the last few seasons we’ve played in a Grand Final, played in a Prelim, and now in the eight part way through the most disrupted H&A season in the competition’s history, we’re a long long long way from having conversations about whether the senior coach needs to go.

You are right. No coach can never guarantee us a premiership. However a good coach can put us in a position where we are consistently challenging for a premiership as Hafey did. Has Horaceg stated poor coaches can ensure we are not in a position to challenge.

On SM-N975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[No SPIN]

You are right. No coach can never guarantee us a premiership. However a good coach can put us in a position where we are consistently challenging for a premiership as Hafey did. Has Horaceg stated poor coaches can ensure we are not in a position to challenge.

On SM-N975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

i think that’s a very reasonable definition of a good coach - so it’s surprising so many want Buckley sacked after GF and PF in successive years.
I guess lack of perspective is an issue for these supporters.

 

[76woodenspooners]

You are right. No coach can never guarantee us a premiership. However a good coach can put us in a position where we are consistently challenging for a premiership as Hafey did.

Surely Buckley has demonstrated since the start of the 2018 season that he falla into this category?

as Horaceg stated poor coaches can ensure we are not in a position to challenge.

Absolutely!

Which has me scratching my head about why we are having a conversation about replacing a competitive coach with one who likely won’t put us in a position to challenge (Clarkson and Hardwick aside)

 

[Robroy22]

Based on these parameters, Bob Rose would still be coach! Similarly Hafey and Matthews but some coaches are very good at getting clubs to finals but lack the killer instinct or the manpower required to take the next step.

Lethal always said that "If the message isn't getting through...then it was time to go" and he didn't hang around did he?

 

[gouki88]

Surely Buckley has demonstrated since the start of the 2018 season that he falla into this category?



Absolutely!

Which has me scratching my head about why we are having a conversation about replacing a competitive coach with one who likely won’t put us in a position to challenge (Clarkson and Hardwick aside)

One grand final appearance, one preliminary final appearance (both games which were disappointments), and a potential finals miss entirely. Not quite 4 grannies and a prelim is it?

 

[stormskye]

i think that’s a very reasonable definition of a good coach - so it’s surprising so many want Buckley sacked after GF and PF in successive years.
I guess lack of perspective is an issue for these supporters.

Next year will be 10 years for no flag.People forget bucks inherited a young premiership team, unlike other coaches who start at the bottom, he was gifted a good team. That’s a failure. Nothing less. End of next year will be time for change.

tigers close to 3 flags, pushing for another this year, I’m over this we made the gf and pf talk. it’s accepting of failure. We need to be ruthless.

 

[76woodenspooners]

One grand final appearance, one preliminary final appearance (both games which were disappointments),

A GF loss is disappointing, sure, but we lost that one by 5 points ... hardly a reason to throw the baby out with the bath water?

Apart from head hunting Clarkson, Hardwick, or maybe Simpson, hard to put together any cogent arguments about how replacing Buckley will make us better?

and a potential finals miss entirely. Not quite 4 grannies and a prelim is it?

Anything is possible in this season from here.