Who will be better in 2025? Saints, Demons or Bombers

[Trav 20]

33, 29, 27.5, 33, 29, 28, 31, 29.5

hard for multiple players of that age to stay injury free

I see two oldish players and another 6 in their prime.

One of the two is the reigning All Australian ruckman and the other had broken ribs twice in 2024, which explains a year that wasn't his best. Neither had soft tissue injuries, which are the only age-related injuries likely.

I find including players like Oliver, Petracca and Fritsch as potential injury concerns due to age slightly bizarre. Five of the eight players named are in their 20s. And this worries you ? Wow.

If one looks at a typical forecast of Collingwood's best 23, Oliver would be the 16th oldest in their team and Petracca the 12th.

In fact, Oliver (and Fritsch) is younger than the average age of Geelong's 2022 premiership team.

 

[markm106]

Melbourne's biggest issue is the coach/game plan. If Goodwin sticks to his guns I think it'll be another down year for that group who are clearly screaming out for a change in approach.

For the Saints the issue is execution. People will bag Lyon but the Saints moved the footy as fast and effectively as anyone the last few years but fell down horribly once the ball went inside 50. If they can work out getting the most out of King, without sending all of their entries through him, they should improve.

I honestly don't know what Essendon's issue is. On paper they seem to have the talent. In 2024 they were sitting top 4 well into the season and then just... nothing. Losing 30-40 goals from Stinger hurts. I don't think they have a single player that will replace that volume so they'll look to Moneyball it between Caddy, Kako, Gresham & Langford.

The improvement probably comes from their talls forward of centre.

What's the mix with Draper/Bryan/Goldstein?

Is Peter Wright capable of holding down FF effectively or does he need to be getting ruck time as well?

Harry Jones off the wing, pushing forward for a mismatch, was an interesting move that I hope they stick with.

They also need to work out what they are doing with Cox. He shows glimpses but seems like a man without a position. If Reid isn't going to be reliable at CHB with his injuries then maybe that's the spot?

If Goodwin opens the team up then the Dees should finish top 4-6.

I think the Saints will be in that 7th-10th bracket again.

Essendon are honestly an enigma. They could go on a run and make top 4 or have the bottom fall out and drop to the 12-16 range. I can't confidently rate them above the other two at this stage.

The club have been on the record saying they are going to be changing the game plan/style. Unsure how that will work out. They seemed to try last year but reverted back. But we totally lost our way second half of the season. This is Goodwin’s last chance IMO.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

These threads are pathetic but I’m tired of not seeing my team in it.

In my opinion

Saints
Demons
Bombers

Discuss

I have picked the same order.

Think all 3 teams miss finals & Goodwin's last year at the Dees.

 

[Matrix10]

No, you undersell Oliver.

Oliver played last year with a fractured thumb, was unfit and fat, and had a knee issue that required surgery at year's end.

At his best, most Melbourne supporters have him as our best player.

The late Phil Walsh's favourite stat was ground-ball gets. He thought it was super important. Oliver was number one in this stat for 5 of 6 years between 2017 and 2022. I think people (not you) forget how good he was.

At just 27 it boggles the mind why people don't think he can return to his best. He's happy, injury free and hasn't missed a beat all preseason.

No doubt Cat's fans would be talking him up if he'd joined the hand baggers last trade period.

Loves the fizz wiz Frankie Farina too much. Keep partying Clary

 

[Matrix10]

We have Melbourne’s first round pick and St Kilda’s second so hopefully we all suck.

Yet, you’ll fluff up your draft picks as is the Essendon way

 

[Falchoon]

I see two oldish players and another 6 in their prime.

One of the two is the reigning All Australian ruckman and the other had broken ribs twice in 2024, which explains a year that wasn't his best. Neither had soft tissue injuries, which are the only age-related injuries likely.

I find including players like Oliver, Petracca and Fritsch as potential injury concerns due to age slightly bizarre. Five of the eight players named are in their 20s. And this worries you ? Wow.

If one looks at a typical forecast of Collingwood's best 23, Oliver would be the 16th oldest in their team and Petracca the 12th.

In fact, Oliver (and Fritsch) is younger than the average age of Geelong's 2022 premiership team.

Danger missed 7, Stanley 5, Selwood 4, Stewart 5, Duncan 3.

Your 8 older players are not staying injury free.

worries me, hardly.

 

[Matrix10]

Loves the fizz wiz Frankie Farina too much. Keep partying Clary

Oh Trav , thumbs down is good. Bruzzy waiting to send Clary truly sky high , without the ranga taking any substances.

 

[Trav 20]

Danger missed 7, Stanley 5, Selwood 4, Stewart 5, Duncan 3.

Your 8 older players are not staying injury free.

worries me, hardly.

OK, it's not obvious at first, but I can see you're referencing Geelon's premiership year of 2022. Detail isn't your friend.

That year Dangerfield was 32, Stanley 31, Selwood 33-34, and Duncan 30-31. And the games they missed, other than Dangerfield, were very acceptable.

I note you mentioned Stewart missed 5 games. He was suspended for 4 of them for the hit on Prestia !!! You can't even remember why he missed. LOL

Geelong won a flag that year with an average age closer to 29 than 28.

Of course, most of our older players won't stay injury free for the year, but that's OK, it depends on the injuries and for how long they miss.

I note that Geelong's other older players in 2022, such as Cameron, Hawkins, Tuohy, Isaac Smith, Cam Guthrie, Bews, and Blicavs, all played at least 23 of 25 games.

All in all, they had an incredible run with injuries to their older and best players.

 

[Mr Meow]

OK, it's not obvious at first, but I can see you're referencing your premiership year of 2022. Detail isn't your friend.

That year Dangerfield was 32, Stanley 31, Selwood 33-34, and Duncan 30-31. And the games they missed, other than Dangerfield, were very acceptable.

I note you mentioned Stewart missed 5 games. He was suspended for 4 of them for the hit on Prestia !!! You can't even remember why he missed. LOL

You won a flag that year with an average age closer to 29 than 28.

Of course, most of our older players won't stay injury free for the year, but that's OK, it depends on the injuries and for how long they miss.

I note that your other older players in 2022, such as Cameron, Hawkins, Tuohy, Isaac Smith, Cam Guthrie, Bews, and Blicavs, all played at least 23 of 25 games.

All in all, you had an incredible run with injuries to your older and best players.

He's a St Kilda supporter, you buffoon.

 

[Trav 20]

He's a St Kilda supporter, you buffoon.

Every point still applies, Old Campaigner.

 

[Mr Meow]

Every point still applies, Old Campaigner.

I don't think you can compare the professional standards of 2022 Geelong to Goodwin's Casino Demons right now.

Oliver was moving around much worse than a 40 year old Patrick Dangerfield in 2024, for example.

Melbourne didn't look that fit in 2024 generally and the back end of the year also seemed to not really give a shit half of the time.

Petracca has taken off in the field of cooking videos, but does he really want to be there?

It's fair to have question marks over Melbourne. They haven't won a final since the pandemic ended.

 

[Matrix10]

I don't think you can compare the professional standards of 2022 Geelong to Goodwin's Casino Demons right now.

Oliver was moving around much worse than a 40 year old Patrick Dangerfield in 2024, for example.

Melbourne didn't look that fit in 2024 generally and the back end of the year also seemed to not really give a shit half of the time.

Petracca has taken off in the field of cooking videos, but does he really want to be there?

It's fair to have question marks over Melbourne. They haven't won a final since the pandemic ended.

The D’s have some quality players , no doubt , their forward line is Fritsch and Kossy , very weak in this part of the ground , Petracca not wanting to be there , the gun Ranga who has been shopped around the last 2 trade periods , buyer beware , every club has intel on what’s unfolding at other clubs , a toxic culture with a soft underbelly, bottom 6 awaits in 2025 .

 

[Trav 20]

I don't think you can compare the professional standards of 2022 Geelong to Goodwin's Casino Demons right now.

Oliver was moving around much worse than a 40 year old Patrick Dangerfield in 2024, for example.

Melbourne didn't look that fit in 2024 generally and the back end of the year also seemed to not really give a shit half of the time.

Petracca has taken off in the field of cooking videos, but does he really want to be there?

It's fair to have question marks over Melbourne. They haven't won a final since the pandemic ended.

Darren Shand, who was the general manager of the All Blacks for over 20 years, recently said on radio that the culture within the club is very different to the outside perception. Not perfect, but that the club has got a lot right.

But of course, this makes sense, because if the club was a basket case, as is portrayed by dunderheads, they wouldn't have won a flag in 2021. You'll probably now refer to West Coast from 20 years ago. Genius.

As for your other ''points'' ? It's just the sort of hackneyed stuff you'd expect from opposition supporters who'll default to worst case scenarios. It's the easy and obvious thing to do. A bit like how Geelong were written off after their capitulation to Melbourne in their last game in 2021.

Nothing I say will convince you, or other dolts, before a ball is bounced. I'm very confident your predictions will be wrong, but we'll obviously know in the fullness of time.

 

[Mr Meow]

Darren Shand, who was the general manager of the All Blacks for over 20 years, recently said on radio that the culture within the club is very different to the outside perception. Not perfect, but that the club has got a lot right.

But of course, this makes sense, because if the club was a basket case, as is portrayed by dunderheads, they wouldn't have won a flag in 2021. You'll probably now refer to West Coast from 20 years ago. Genius.

As for your other ''points'' ? It's just the sort of hackneyed stuff you'd expect from opposition supporters who'll default to worst case scenarios. It's the easy and obvious thing to do. A bit like how Geelong were written off after their capitulation to Melbourne in their last game in 2021.

Nothing I say will convince you, or other dolts, before a ball is bounced. I'm very confident your predictions will be wrong, but we'll obviously know in the fullness of time.

2021 Melbourne were exceptional. No arguments there.

The last 4 years, to have not registered a single finals win is an indictment on the coaching and management of the squad. Frankly they should've been contending for more flags, if not winning them.

Straight sets -> straight sets -> missing the 8 isn't the type of trajectory that screams "bounce back", now that the very best players from 2021 as a collective are not as dominant.

Geelong after the 2021 prelim, what was their 3 year trajectory? Prelim, grand final, prelim.

Any prediction is stupid when it comes down to it if we are talking about ladder positions (one game can separate 5 or 6 teams). I'm happy to predict they won't be a genuine premiership contender in 2025.

But keep saying "dolts, dunderheads" and whatever else you need to so that you feel clever. At least there must be some satisfaction for displaying that incredible intellectual superiority. Just don't be surprised if your Melbourne 2025 premiership vindication doesn't arrive. I hope they sneak into finals for you so that you're not completely dismayed.

 

[Trav 20]

2021 Melbourne were exceptional. No arguments there.

The last 4 years, to have not registered a single finals win is an indictment on the coaching and management of the squad. Frankly they should've been contending for more flags, if not winning them.

Straight sets -> straight sets -> missing the 8 isn't the type of trajectory that screams "bounce back", now that the very best players from 2021 as a collective are not as dominant.

Geelong after the 2021 prelim, what was their 3 year trajectory? Prelim, grand final, prelim.

Any prediction is stupid when it comes down to it if we are talking about ladder positions (one game can separate 5 or 6 teams). I'm happy to predict they won't be a genuine premiership contender in 2025.

But keep saying "dolts, dunderheads" and whatever else you need to so that you feel clever. At least there must be some satisfaction for displaying that incredible intellectual superiority. Just don't be surprised if your Melbourne 2025 premiership vindication doesn't arrive. I hope they sneak into finals for you so that you're not completely dismayed.

Sorry for the invective, but I'm convinced most people are idiots. I live in Victoria, afer-all.

As for straight sets ? Yes, disappointing for all Dees fans.

But if you peel back the layers it's not quite as disastrous as it seems. Firstly, at least we finished top 4 in the two subsequent years to our flag, which is far better than a lot of recent premiers. Secondly, we were much better in the second half of 2023 than 2022. You may not recall, but we dominated general play in both finals against Collingwood and Carlton and lost one by 7 points and the other by a solitary point after having the game well in hand. I get that won't mean much to you. 2024 is the outlier.

As I said, nothing will convince you until you see otherwise. Fair enough.

I'll finish by saying that I fully understand the general concensus by Bigfooty groupthink, but I do think our best players can still perform to their All Australian levels, injuries permitting.

 

[Mr Meow]

Sorry for the invective, but I'm convinced most people are idiots. I live in Victoria, afer-all.

As for straight sets ? Yes, disappointing for all Dees fans.

But if you peel back the layers it's not quite as disastrous as it seems. Firstly, at least we finished top 4 in the two subsequent years to our flag, which is far better than a lot of recent premiers. Secondly, we were much better in the second half of 2023 than 2022. You may not recall, but we dominated general play in both finals against Collingwood and Carlton and lost one by 7 points and the other by a solitary point after having the game well in hand. I get that won't mean much to you. 2024 is the outlier.

As I said, nothing will convince you until you see otherwise. Fair enough.

I'll finish by saying that I fully understand the general concensus by Bigfooty groupthink, but I do think our best players can still perform to their All Australian levels, injuries permitting.

That's a fair enough reply. We can have differing views without calling each other and the entire world morons. People have written off Geelong remaining contenders (or at least their capacity to be very competitive) many times and been proven wrong. With Melbourne it's Goodwin I question more than the list itself.

7th-12th range I can see more than 1st-4th, but every year there's teams I'm wrong about and maybe in 2025 Melbourne will be one of them. I'm open to that possibility, given we will all have stupid predictions every season.

 

[Freomaniac]

Melbourne. I reckon they're the only club of that trio capable of playing finals in 2025.

I actually agree. One of these 3 sides finished 14th and got 11 wins.

Last 2 seasons...

In 2023 dockers finished 14th with 10 wins.

In 2024 it was demons with 11 wins.

So... Yeah all 3 sides at worst will get at least 10 wins.

2025 will be a tight season where all 3 teams mentioned on this thread could finish between 5th to 14th

 

[Freomaniac]

That's a fair enough reply. We can have differing views without calling each other and the entire world morons. People have written off Geelong remaining contenders (or at least their capacity to be very competitive) many times and been proven wrong. With Melbourne it's Goodwin I question more than the list itself.

7th-12th range I can see more than 1st-4th, but every year there's teams I'm wrong about and maybe in 2025 Melbourne will be one of them. I'm open to that possibility, given we will all have stupid predictions every season.

I swear that if Ken Hinkley is sacked at Port at the end of 2025, he should be approached by all 3 clubs mentioned on this thread

 

[Freomaniac]

Being devil's advocate..I'm not saying you will go backwards but reasons you may:

1. Can't kick enough goals
2. No backup if Marshall gets injured
3. No Battle (3rd in b and f)

1. Can't kick enough goals. Are you blaming the coach? Ross Lyon is a good coach.

2. No back up to Marshall if he gets injured. True. I can see a Reilly O'Brien get looked at when 2025 closes.

3. No battle. True he was one of the saints better players

 

[Freomaniac]

I have picked the same order.

Think all 3 teams miss finals & Goodwin's last year at the Dees.

If crows don't make finals and Matty Nicks is sacked, would you consider Simon Goodwin as a replacement?

 

[markm106]

Sorry for the invective, but I'm convinced most people are idiots. I live in Victoria, afer-all.

As for straight sets ? Yes, disappointing for all Dees fans.

But if you peel back the layers it's not quite as disastrous as it seems. Firstly, at least we finished top 4 in the two subsequent years to our flag, which is far better than a lot of recent premiers. Secondly, we were much better in the second half of 2023 than 2022. You may not recall, but we dominated general play in both finals against Collingwood and Carlton and lost one by 7 points and the other by a solitary point after having the game well in hand. I get that won't mean much to you. 2024 is the outlier.

As I said, nothing will convince you until you see otherwise. Fair enough.

I'll finish by saying that I fully understand the general concensus by Bigfooty groupthink, but I do think our best players can still perform to their All Australian levels, injuries permitting.

I agree with the straight sets thoughts. 2022 we were cooked. Goodwin played players he shouldn’t have due to injury and when finals hit we were done.
2023. Yep dominated fair chunks of both finals and narrowly lost both. Agree neutrals will look and the W/L and that’s fair enough. But a deeper look can tell a bit of a different story.
2024 was a disaster from round 9 onwards. I feel we can bounce back this year and it will be an important one given that Gawn and May are aging. But happy we have added some young talent over last years also.

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

I'll go with the Demons. There's at least one last kick in them i think.

 

[Mr Meow]

I agree with the straight sets thoughts. 2022 we were cooked. Goodwin played players he shouldn’t have due to injury and when finals hit we were done.
2023. Yep dominated fair chunks of both finals and narrowly lost both. Agree neutrals will look and the W/L and that’s fair enough. But a deeper look can tell a bit of a different story.
2024 was a disaster from round 9 onwards. I feel we can bounce back this year and it will be an important one given that Gawn and May are aging. But happy we have added some young talent over last years also.

Geelong had some issues with finals 2016-2021, that Melbourne 2022-2023 reminded me of.

Relying on too few and cooking them by the important games. Not having the freshest and fittest squad at the end of the season. Key missing personnel. Being inefficient at converting attacks to goals in finals. Having a squad that didn't seem best suited for manic, swarming finals pressure. Some very ineffective role players.

The only difference was Geelong found a way in the semi finals. But I don't think you can just put it down to luck and say "actually we were really close". The Cats eventually nailed it in 2022, as far as nursing some important older players through and having many other younger players step up. That's what Melbourne would need to both make and succeed in finals in 2025.

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

You support Carlton.

And you support St Kilda historically the biggest charity case in the competition, so what was is the point of that remark exactly?

Granted you were replying to a troll comment, but i always find the spectacle of a Saints fan with high notions about themselves to be very amusing!

It's a bit like watching a dog trying to walk on it's hind paws.

 

[g_TRAIN]

And you support St Kilda historically the biggest charity case in the competition, so what was is the point of that remark exactly?

Granted you were replying to a troll comment, but i always find the spectacle of a Saints fan with high notions about themselves to be very amusing!

You answered the question yourself.

I was just responding to a troll.