Prediction Who will crack the best 22 in 2016.

[Frigate]

So 2016, we have been close.
I accept :
1. Z Clarke is a dud - forget the training. Until he can lead at the ball and not try and ride every contest he can stay in WAFL. I gave up on his potential in 2014. Stoked if I am proven wrong here.

2. I like... but fighting for spots. My 2015 Buddy Ballas - lift son like son son. Hoping for big things.
Mayne, Suban, Clancee, Barlow, Pavlich (yes he has gone around again so he needs to lift), Crozier, are the ones that are fighting for spots IMO. 3. I am interested in Langdon and Yarran. I think they are the ones to come in. Alex Pearce is a lock with Elvis gone.

3. Who thinks Yarran can make it? I see the draft choice as either insurance or a ready made forward too good for WAFL and possibly a game winning player at AFL. He is super fast and has the footy smarts to make you think time slows down. Until he gets game time it is still a last (high risk - with issues) draft pick. Something tells me there is a story here to unfold.

4. Stop bagging Zac D. I am so tired of stupid supporters for FFC. Zac is our #1 KPP defender. He defends. Support the bloke coz he does his job well and he also plays well in the big games. He is no elite goal kicking midfielder, but he bleeds for us, so time the Simpletons hold their tongues and accept he locks down key forwards period.

 

[DannyTheDoorman]

Meeting to inform the players that the intra scratching is on Friday morning at Subi.

 

[DudleyDocker]

So 2016, we have been close.
I accept :
1. Z Clarke is a dud - forget the training. Until he can lead at the ball and not try and ride every contest he can stay in WAFL. I gave up on his potential in 2014. Stoked if I am proven wrong here.

4. Stop bagging Zac D. I am so tired of stupid supporters for FFC. Zac is our #1 KPP defender. He defends. Support the bloke coz he does his job well and he also plays well in the big games. He is no elite goal kicking midfielder, but he bleeds for us, so time the Simpletons hold their tongues and accept he locks down key forwards period.

OK, so interpreting that for we nuffies...

It seems it's OK to bag out Zac Clark, but bag out Zac Dawson and you are stupid and a Simpleton.

Sheesh!

 

[theGav56]

There has been a pretty clear drafting theme aimed at improving skill and speed in our troops, and probably decision making too. I think we sit at the turning of the tide where selection has a more realistic choice between mature workhorse style players and emerging thoroughbreds ready to run.

 

[freodocker5]

4. Stop bagging Zac D. I am so tired of stupid supporters for FFC. Zac is our #1 KPP defender. He defends. Support the bloke coz he does his job well and he also plays well in the big games. He is no elite goal kicking midfielder, but he bleeds for us, so time the Simpletons hold their tongues and accept he locks down key forwards period.

He actually has lost a lot of his lock down abilities. In his 5 games this year hes had Roughead get 22 touches and 2 goals on him in the PF, Tippett kicked 3 goals in a very low scoring game in the QF, Jarred Waite kicked 3 in rd 21, Jeremy Cameron had 5 shots on goal for 2.3 with a busted face and then he performed well against Melbourne.

Im not sure saying "he bleeds for us" is enough to tell these so called simpletons to hold their tongues and accept he locks down key forwards because in 4/5 occasions last year he was beaten.

 

[salim malik]

He actually has lost a lot of his lock down abilities. In his 5 games this year hes had Roughead get 22 touches and 2 goals on him in the PF, Tippett kicked 3 goals in a very low scoring game in the QF, Jarred Waite kicked 3 in rd 21, Jeremy Cameron had 5 shots on goal for 2.3 with a busted face and then he performed well against Melbourne.

Im not sure saying "he bleeds for us" is enough to tell these so called simpletons to hold their tongues and accept he locks down key forwards because in 4/5 occasions last year he was beaten.

Roughhead is not a stay at home forward, he runs through the midfield as well. Selective stats that don't tell the whole story. Without Zac D in the derby Kennedy and co slaughtered us. Do some stats on that game.

 

[yyou]

Quick question from an outsider
I'm interested in how Crozier will establish himself in the team
Could he possibly be used in defense?
Reasonable size, good pace & very good kick out of the backline?

 

[DudleyDocker]

He actually has lost a lot of his lock down abilities. In his 5 games this year hes had Roughead get 22 touches and 2 goals on him in the PF, Tippett kicked 3 goals in a very low scoring game in the QF, Jarred Waite kicked 3 in rd 21, Jeremy Cameron had 5 shots on goal for 2.3 with a busted face and then he performed well against Melbourne.

Im not sure saying "he bleeds for us" is enough to tell these so called simpletons to hold their tongues and accept he locks down key forwards because in 4/5 occasions last year he was beaten.

I love Zaccy D - for me he is the defensive version of Keplar and he IS our best lock down defender by a mile. He had an injury interrupted season last year but he will be back bigger and better this year.

Having said that, you are entitled to put forward your view without being belittled - we are all Freo supporters (apart from the obvious trolls) and should be better than that.

 

[DudleyDocker]

Quick question from an outsider
I'm interested in how Crozier will establish himself in the team
Could he possibly be used in defense?
Reasonable size, good pace & very good kick out of the backline?

I think we have a lot of this type of player, and Croz would be a long way down the list.

Unfortunately I think he is dropping down the list for his preferred half forward role as well. He has had a number of opportunities and hasn't really garbbed the game by the throat in any of them.

I'm still holding out hope as I think he has a lot to offer, but more likely forward of the centre I think.

 

[meima]

He actually has lost a lot of his lock down abilities. In his 5 games this year hes had Roughead get 22 touches and 2 goals on him in the PF, Tippett kicked 3 goals in a very low scoring game in the QF, Jarred Waite kicked 3 in rd 21, Jeremy Cameron had 5 shots on goal for 2.3 with a busted face and then he performed well against Melbourne.

Im not sure saying "he bleeds for us" is enough to tell these so called simpletons to hold their tongues and accept he locks down key forwards because in 4/5 occasions last year he was beaten.

You base your opinion on 2015 again where Dawson got not much pre season at all, also last year pre season our emphasized on running as compare to this year skill and match sim.When Ross don't change critics complain , if he change some programme critics said he not actually change anything. These people is hard to please lot.

 

[freodocker5]

Roughhead is not a stay at home forward, he runs through the midfield as well. Selective stats that don't tell the whole story. Without Zac D in the derby Kennedy and co slaughtered us. Do some stats on that game.

How are they selective stats? As a lockdown defender his primary role is to stop his opponent from kicking goals and also, to a lesser extent, restrict the amount of disposals they have.

To say the derby would have been a different story if Dawson was there is a bit far fetched IMHO - it's a massive hypothetical situation that you've raised and perhaps not the greatest measure of Dawson's worth.

I think in this case you can only take the games he played in and in those he was outpointed by his opponent 4/5 times, as well as offering next to nothing on the offensive side for us.

I love zac as well, he seems like a great bloke to have a beer with, but I would personally like to see Alex Pearce (providing he gets fit soon) and Johnson as our two KDP's this year

 

[salim malik]

How are they selective stats? As a lockdown defender his primary role is to stop his opponent from kicking goals and also, to a lesser extent, restrict the amount of disposals they have.

To say the derby would have been a different story if Dawson was there is a bit far fetched IMHO - it's a massive hypothetical situation that you've raised and perhaps not the greatest measure of Dawson's worth.

I think in this case you can only take the games he played in and in those he was outpointed by his opponent 4/5 times, as well as offering next to nothing on the offensive side for us.

I love zac as well, he seems like a great bloke to have a beer with, but I would personally like to see Alex Pearce (providing he gets fit soon) and Johnson as our two KDP's this year

He wasn't playing on Roughy ,Roughy played mid as well in that game. Thats selecting a stat to push your argument. Pearce is not strong enough yet,Silvagni not big enough. Johnson is not a KPD. He struggles one on one . His back problems are a concern in the push and shove of locking down. His best football is as the floating play making defender across half back .Why tempt fate with another injury riddled season for him. Zac will play on the big forwards ,end of story .The Zac haters will just have to get used to it.

 

[theGav56]

I think we need some hard players who can play ugly but effective football, and nobody plays uglier football than Dawson.

 

[freodocker5]

I think we need some hard players who can play ugly but effective football, and nobody plays uglier football than Dawson.

Why do you feel we need that? We have a plethora of players who are hard players which has lead to us being widely renowned as a tough team who grinds out wins, but we are criticised for our lack of attacking play which some pundits label as "ugly but effective football". I therefore can't agree with you in saying that we need more ugly footballers - IMO what we need to get to the next level is to bring in players who can offer at least something on the offensive side while playing there role for the team

 

[theGav56]

Why do you feel we need that? We have a plethora of players who are hard players which has lead to us being widely renowned as a tough team who grinds out wins, but we are criticised for our lack of attacking play which some pundits label as "ugly but effective football". I therefore can't agree with you in saying that we need more ugly footballers - IMO what we need to get to the next level is to bring in players who can offer at least something on the offensive side while playing there role for the team

Always better when you quote someone to actually use what they said instead of what you think the said.

 

[DannyTheDoorman]

I checked at the club yesterday and the guy who does the website said the intra club game from what he knew is at Freo but he would check and put it up on the website. I seriously think it wont be at Domain so go shoot your source as they are no good as they are giving you incorrect info and you need a kick in the ring for beleiving them if they are wrong.

 

[DannyTheDoorman]

He actually has lost a lot of his lock down abilities. In his 5 games this year hes had Roughead get 22 touches and 2 goals on him in the PF, Tippett kicked 3 goals in a very low scoring game in the QF, Jarred Waite kicked 3 in rd 21, Jeremy Cameron had 5 shots on goal for 2.3 with a busted face and then he performed well against Melbourne.

Im not sure saying "he bleeds for us" is enough to tell these so called simpletons to hold their tongues and accept he locks down key forwards because in 4/5 occasions last year he was beaten.

 

[DannyTheDoorman]

I think you had better check your stats about the goals Tippet kicks against Daws. It certainly wasn't 3 as 1or 2 were kicked by Tippet when he was in the ruck and drifted forward and his opposing ruck should have picked him up. Just have a look at the Sydney game in the Finals in the first half and see what Dawss does and listen to the commentators for their thoughts. You might well be surprised.

 

[freodocker5]

Always better when you quote someone to actually use what they said instead of what you think the said.

Lol... ok, well we will go with "some" instead of more.

Still haven't answered the question

 

[salim malik]

Lol... ok, well we will go with "some" instead of more.

Still haven't answered the question

If the question is irrelevant why answer it.

 

[theGav56]

Lol... ok, well we will go with "some" instead of more.

Still haven't answered the question

You may think saying that we need "some" is the same as saying we need "more", but it isn't.

Please take a look at my post and note the word effective. Beats the crap out of pretty but ineffective football.

That is why we need Dawson. Using defensive players who can effectively negate A grade KPFs is pretty stock standard football.

Maybe post your question to Lyon because it is clearly something he supports wholeheartedly.

 

[wayToGo_]

Johnson is not a KPD. He struggles one on one .

Sorry mate but this is absolute rubbish. Johnson is an amazing one-on-one defender. The problem is he is so good at rebounding that we want him to do that as well - with McPharlin gone we may not be able to use him the same way this season. I suspect the reason why we are looking at guys like Hill and Mora to play from the backline more is so they can rebound instead and let Johnson play one-on-one more. To give it some perspective, in 2014, Johnson only lost 5 of his 32 defensive one-one-on contests - making him a top 6 KPD that year. He also conceded only 12 goals in 18 games including keeping J.Kennedy, Westhoff and Tom Lynch all goalless for 40 minutes. All that whilst also being the #1 interceptor.

I know you hate stats but they are pretty clear in this case that Johnson is our best KPD. Zac is our next in line as a negating forward and he is tremendous at spoiling leads. The other guys aren't there yet but am confident A.Pearce and Collins will close the gap this year.

 

[sherrif]

He actually has lost a lot of his lock down abilities. In his 5 games this year hes had Roughead get 22 touches and 2 goals on him in the PF, Tippett kicked 3 goals in a very low scoring game in the QF, Jarred Waite kicked 3 in rd 21, Jeremy Cameron had 5 shots on goal for 2.3 with a busted face and then he performed well against Melbourne.

Im not sure saying "he bleeds for us" is enough to tell these so called simpletons to hold their tongues and accept he locks down key forwards because in 4/5 occasions last year he was beaten.

This is getting boring and quite simply the fact that you can mention three , three goal games and one two goal game in an injury effected year for Dawson demonstrates he did a terrific role overall. Just for the record 2 or three goals on some of the better key forwards isn't even close to a bad effort.

A closer analysis also shows how some stats have been selectively mentioned out of context in the above post. Two of the three goals kicked by Tippet were when he was playing in the ruck against Clarke. Cameron was isolated one on one so five goal shots is not even remotely out of control. Playing Dawson freed up Lukey Mac for one of his highest possession outings too Waite kicking three goals is hardly dominate, but Im pretty sure Dawson spent more time on Petrie and Brown in that game then on Waite. Dawson played on Shoemakers for a fair bit of the Prelim too with Ibbo spending significant time on Roughead when he went up the ground to get the 22 possessions. BY my count Dawson had one goal kicked on him by Mcevoy and one by Shoemakers. He was far from full fitness last year, but still beat his man more often then he lost by a significant margin.

 

[freodocker5]

If the question is irrelevant why answer it.

How is my question irrelevant? I simply asked why he thinks we need ugly footballers as its something i disagree with and would like to know his reasoning. Isn't this forum about people throwing out opinions about freo and then others can discuss and debate these ideas in an orderly way and then not having a-grade flogs like yourself trying to say some people's questions are irrelevant?

I'm pretty sure you told me thats what this place is about a few days ago salim- but i guess there are different rules that apply to you?

 

[freodocker5]

You may think saying that we need "some" is the same as saying we need "more", but it isn't.

Please take a look at my post and note the word effective. Beats the crap out of pretty but ineffective football.

That is why we need Dawson. Using defensive players who can effectively negate A grade KPFs is pretty stock standard football.

Maybe post your question to Lyon because it is clearly something he supports wholeheartedly.

Fair point but yeah, it would be something id like to ask him because our ugly/not so attacking football is the major question mark that all the experts ask about our football side. So maybe not having a player who literally refuses to kick the ball and handball to players who are in far worse positions than him may be one of the steps needed to become more attacking