Society/Culture Why Australia needs to lower its immigration intake

[Gethelred]

This thread is about a lot of things, but one of the things it is not about is crime.

The next person who seeks to make a connection between violent crime and immigration by posting about it in here will receive a threadban and an infraction equivalent to the racism it portrays.

Should you want to talk about violent crime, the 'African gangs' thread is both thataway:

Vic - Melbourne's Sudanese gangs

The Victorian government and police management have finally been shamed into admitting there's a problems with African gangs. On 20th December, after eight police were overpowered by a gang of 100 mainly South Sudanese youths who trashed a Werribee Airbnb-rented property, smashing car...

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Let's stay on topic from here.

 

[Rob R]

Immigration will lower housing prices. And help fix the cost of living crisis.

Blame lack of land releases and infrastructure investment. Not immigration.

Immigration that isn't directly addressing critical skills shortages should be paused until we build houses. Releasing more land now won't deliver houses for years.

There are lots of things that need to be done (NG, Airbnb etc) but we can hit demand now by cutting new arrivals and extensions to visas.

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

Immigration will lower housing prices. And help fix the cost of living crisis.

Blame lack of land releases and infrastructure investment. Not immigration.

 

[Seeds]

Immigration that isn't directly addressing critical skills shortages should be paused until we build houses. Releasing more land now won't deliver houses for years.

There are lots of things that need to be done (NG, Airbnb etc) but we can hit demand now by cutting new arrivals and extensions to visas.

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

We need more immigrants who work in construction. This will lower construction costs.

In the short run immigrants do add to housing problems because housing stock is fixed. But the short run doesnt last very long. 12-18 months. We should focus on the best policies for the medium to long term.

The key is to force states and councils to release more land for housing and to bring construction costs down through numerous policies including increased immigration. Immigration only boosts house prices in the long run if australia literally had no land left for housing. This is obviously not true. We arent singapore (and even they havent hit their limits cos they build up). Cheaper construction workers, however, do lower construction costs making new houses cheaper to build and incentivising new home builds. As with lower labour costs all through the material supply chains. Targetted Immigration of working age people helps with this.

 

[Lsta062]

Immigration that isn't directly addressing critical skills shortages should be paused until we build houses. Releasing more land now won't deliver houses for years.

There are lots of things that need to be done (NG, Airbnb etc) but we can hit demand now by cutting new arrivals and extensions to visas.

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Funnily enough, I actually think cashed up skilled immigrants might contribute to the housing crisis more than humanitarian immigrants. Humanitarian immigrants don’t come with capital. While they use resources like social housing, most of the land blocks/houses in Australia aren’t being used for social housing. Many might even end up working in the construction industry, which is actually a positive contribution to the housing market.

Cashed up skilled immigrants do enter the Australian housing market, but even then, they’re probably not the ultimate driving force behind the current housing crisis given that they positively contribute to the Australian (and probably even the housing) market.

The driving force of this crisis are foreign and domestic investors who purchase many houses/blocks of land and sit on it to gain profit down the track. I recall hearing somewhere that there are up to 1 million vacant houses in Australia.

I’m really starting to get concerned that those actually behind the housing crisis are successfully misdirecting the Australian public into believing that this is only because of immigration. They know how easy it is to tap into a person’s xenophobia, and they’re taking full advantage of this.

 

[Chief]

The key is to force states and councils to release more land for housing

It would be better if they used what they have released a lot better. Putting more and more tracts of land under large, single family homes isn't sustainable.

 

[peetoo]

It would be better if they used what they have released a lot better. Putting more and more tracts of land under large, single family homes isn't sustainable.

You might get to hear about opposition to Camberwell junction Activity center plan. It could get noisy with council elections due.

My neighbours are up in arms potentially being re-zoned to 3-6 levels depending. (There’s a lot to play out though) I’m not so distressed. It’s put a floor under the value of the property if it’s got that development potential

 

[errant bounce]

Also banging on about 'mcm...' if you had any clue you'd know the thing firing the 'alt right' is podcasts and the internet.

I will agree though, immigration is pretty amazing. people think the massive rates of unskilled workers coming in is bad but I've never seen more care, respect, and gratefulness in our society before. it's genuinely beautiful. people need to realise the rental crush and low wages are actually encouraging more migration, which grows our population and workforce. you would have to be a total idiot to think diversity is a bad thing. the more = the better. I genuinely think this is the greatest Australia has ever looked, sounded, and smelt.

 

[adammania9]

Also banging on about 'mcm...' if you had any clue you'd know the thing firing the 'alt right' is podcasts and the internet.

I will agree though, immigration is pretty amazing. people think the massive rates of unskilled workers coming in is bad but I've never seen more care, respect, and gratefulness in our society before. it's genuinely beautiful. people need to realise the rental crush and low wages are actually encouraging more migration, which grows our population and workforce. you would have to be a total idiot to think diversity is a bad thing. the more = the better. I genuinely think this is the greatest Australia has ever looked, sounded, and smelt.

Mass migration is very clearly not helping house Australians. It is the absolute #1 cause of the housing market becoming unaffordable for young Australians. Fantastic we have more tech workers and Domino’s managers though.

 

[Gethelred]

Mass migration is very clearly not helping house Australians. It is the absolute #1 cause of the housing market becoming unaffordable for young Australians. Fantastic we have more tech workers and Domino’s managers though.

https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/research-and-stats/files/migration-trends-2022-23.PDF

Permanent migrants

Total: 212,879
Migration Program outcome: 195,004
Skill stream places: 142,344
Family stream places (includes Child): 52,500
Special Eligibility stream places: 160
Humanitarian Program visas granted: 17,875

Temporary Migrants

Temporary visas granted 7,025,366
Visitor visas granted 3,818,495
New Zealand citizen Special Category visas granted 1,428,081
Student visas granted 577,295
Temporary Resident (Other Employment) visas granted 464,539
Crew and Transit visas granted 402,150
Working Holiday Maker visas granted 224,431
Temporary Resident (Skilled Employment) visas granted 102,565
Other Temporary visas granted 7,810

Could you please point out the migrants you're objecting to specifically here?

It's the New Zealanders, isn't it?

 

[errant bounce]

Mass migration is very clearly not helping house Australians. It is the absolute #1 cause of the housing market becoming unaffordable for young Australians. Fantastic we have more tech workers and Domino’s managers though.

I agree, I was just being facetious. big business mostly love immigration because it means you can pay people **** all and they'll accept it.

It's basically the scabs who took the worker's jobs in the 50s...

 

[Chief]

I agree, I was just being facetious. big business mostly love immigration because it means you can pay people **** all and they'll accept it.

It's basically the scabs who took the worker's jobs in the 50s...

You don't think a government minimum wage largely fixes this? Or is it cash in hand workers that you have an issue with?

 

[Kram]

Good luck getting staff atm paying minimum, at least over here.

 

[Chief]

Good luck getting staff atm paying minimum, at least over here.

Sounds like productivity increases are finally leading to wage increases.

 

[Seeds]

Good luck getting staff atm paying minimum, at least over here.

Thats why we should have more immigration.

 

[Seeds]

Mass migration is very clearly not helping house Australians. It is the absolute #1 cause of the housing market becoming unaffordable for young Australians. Fantastic we have more tech workers and Domino’s managers though.

Wrong. Housing supply constraints is the problem and a failure of government to remove them.

Immigration will lower housing prices over the long run as it disproportionately provides a high share of construction workers and tradies and thus will reduce construction costs. Slowing immigration increases average housing prices over the long run.

people blame immigrants because they are instinctively us-theming. Or what lefties call- being racist.

 

[Chief]

Latest Michael West video talks about money laundering adding billions to the demand for higher end property. I hadn't heard of that as a problem. LNP have been blocking anti money laundering legislation but Labor's speed run last week saw it get through. Hopefully not watered down.

 

[sdfc]

Wrong. Housing supply constraints is the problem and a failure of government to remove them.

Immigration will lower housing prices over the long run as it disproportionately provides a high share of construction workers and tradies and thus will reduce construction costs. Slowing immigration increases average housing prices over the long run.

people blame immigrants because they are instinctively us-theming. Or what lefties call- being racist.

That's fine in the long run but we have a housing shortage now. It's not about racism but the extra bodies needing to be housed.

 

[peetoo]

https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/calls-to-deport-visa-rorters-after-ghost-college-crackdown/news-story/39ad3419c013eebc94305bba1a3bd91f

 

[adammania9]

Wrong. Housing supply constraints is the problem and a failure of government to remove them.

Immigration will lower housing prices over the long run as it disproportionately provides a high share of construction workers and tradies and thus will reduce construction costs. Slowing immigration increases average housing prices over the long run.

people blame immigrants because they are instinctively us-theming. Or what lefties call- being racist.

Oh deary me I’ve been called a racist. Drop everything and change your thinking.

Still waiting for immigration to have a positive effect on construction industry. It’s been a complete and utter failure and will continue to be so indefinitely.

Open your other eye, lad

 

[Episode IV]

Wrong. Housing supply constraints is the problem and a failure of government to remove them.

Immigration will lower housing prices over the long run as it disproportionately provides a high share of construction workers and tradies and thus will reduce construction costs. Slowing immigration increases average housing prices over the long run.

people blame immigrants because they are instinctively us-theming. Or what lefties call- being racist.

Without migrants, Australia's population would be declining. Without the increase in population driven by migration, the housing supply situation would slowly ameliorate, because (without factoring in foreign investment, which is something else for which the ramifications bear consideration) the country would slowly transform itself from a seller's market to a buyer's.

It appears that your argument rests upon the premise that we need the migrants to provide labour to build the houses for the migrants that we need to provide the labour to build the houses for the migrants we need to provide the labour to build the houses for the migrants we need to... anyway.
I'm also going to note there that I've used the word "labour" in place of your "tradies". Those are two very different things, and quality and standards differ depending on point of origin.

If "Housing supply constraints is the problem and a failure of government to remove them" is, as you claim, the problem, then here's a question.

Why is this a problem when many people don't particularly want the population to increase as exponentially as it currently is?

I'm not going to bother with your last sentence, other than to note that there are also a lot of people who are getting really, really tired of that crap.

 

[Seeds]

Without migrants, Australia's population would be declining. Without the increase in population driven by migration, the housing supply situation would slowly ameliorate, because (without factoring in foreign investment, which is something else for which the ramifications bear consideration) the country would slowly transform itself from a seller's market to a buyer's.

It appears that your argument rests upon the premise that we need the migrants to provide labour to build the houses for the migrants that we need to provide the labour to build the houses for the migrants we need to provide the labour to build the houses for the migrants we need to... anyway.
I'm also going to note there that I've used the word "labour" in place of your "tradies". Those are two very different things, and quality and standards differ depending on point of origin.

If "Housing supply constraints is the problem and a failure of government to remove them" is, as you claim, the problem, then here's a question.

Why is this a problem when many people don't particularly want the population to increase as exponentially as it currently is?

I'm not going to bother with your last sentence, other than to note that there are also a lot of people who are getting really, really tired of that crap.

The migrants build houses for domestic residents. If the proportion of migrants that are construction workers is higher then the proportion of domestic residents that are construction workers then migrants are building houses for both themselves and domestic residents. This is basic maths.

And most people would want population growth if they knew the full extent of the benefits it provides them.

 

[btdg]

The migrants build houses for domestic residents. If the proportion of migrants that are construction workers is higher then the proportion of domestic residents that are construction workers then migrants are building houses for both themselves and domestic residents. This is basic maths.

And most people would want population growth if they knew the full extent of the benefits it provides them.

I'm not opposed to migration necessarily but a big part of the housing problem is that not all houses are alike.

New migrants might be able to increase the supply of housing 50kms from the center of Melbourne, but they can't build houses in the inner city because there is limited space. You can knock down houses and build more apartments or townhouses or whatever, but that is different. And this is th crux of the housing issue to me - it isn't about just building houses, it is having the capacity to build them in places people want them to be.

And the further out you go, the harder it gets to build and maintain infrastructure to new builds, amongst other issues.

I would love to see more creativity with migration - rather than dumping everyone into the outer burbs of Melbourne and Sydney, building new cities or hubs, decentralising industries away from the megacities, etc.

Immigration has been fantastic for Australia and remains important. The volume and nature of that since COVID (in particular) feels unplanned and disorganised though. There's a lack of vision from all levels of government. Do we want a population of 50m? Cool, I could get on board, but does that mean 20m people in each of Melbourne and Sydney and 5m on the Gold Coast/Brisbane, cos I feel we can do better than that

 

[peetoo]

Add that young couples can’t afford houses or families

 

[Seeds]

It would be better if they used what they have released a lot better. Putting more and more tracts of land under large, single family homes isn't sustainable.

It is in australia. Heaps of spare land. Too much in fact.

Houses are cheaper per sq metre if we build on the ground. Building up adds to construction and housing costs.

 

[Chief]

It is in australia. Heaps of spare land. Too much in fact.

Houses are cheaper per sq metre if we build on the ground. Building up adds to construction and housing costs.

The cost of infrastructure build and maintenance becomes prohibitive - see the US where federal gov has to borrow money on behalf of states and local governments so they can maintain the infrastructure for their urban sprawl. It's just going to keep happening unless taxes can pay for maintenance.