Why Lions fans have had enough (From 5/5/2015 Non NSW and QLD club supporters will be carded)

[Last of the Roys]

I thought I would post some interesting stats I looked up the other day on the great AFL Tables website.
http://afltables.com/afl/teams/brisbanel/allgames.html

I know I am not alone in being utterly sick of the Lions having shit starts to the year. In fact, the Lions season has basically been over by round 7 for the last 4 years in a row. We would need to win at least 3 of the next 4 games to turn that around this season - something that looks almost impossible based on our form.

So the last time we were still in the race for the finals one third of the way into the season was 2010, and we all know how well that ended.

• 2010, after round 7 we were 4 wins and 3 losses (in fact we were 4-0, but only went on to win 3 more games for the year)
• 2011, after round 7 we were 0 wins and 7 losses (actually went 0-8 and only had 4 wins for the year)
• 2012, after round 7 we were 2 wins and 5 losses (rest of the season we went 8-7)
• 2013, after round 7 again we were 2 wins and 5 losses (and again we then went 8-7)
• 2014, after round 7 we were 1 win and 6 losses (rest of the season we went 6-9)
• 2015, after round 7 = ???

Another reason many of us have had enough (besides the obvious lack of wins / finals) might be found in the following stats, which are average points for and against, as well as average points difference in each season since the merger.

• 1997, avg FOR = 94, avg AGAINST = 92, avg DIFF = +2
• 1998, avg FOR = 85, avg AGAINST = 112, avg DIFF = -27
• 1999, avg FOR = 111, avg AGAINST = 77, avg DIFF = +34
• 2000, avg FOR = 116, avg AGAINST = 102, avg DIFF = +14
• 2001, avg FOR = 115, avg AGAINST = 88, avg DIFF = +27
• 2002, avg FOR = 114, avg AGAINST = 81, avg DIFF = +33
• 2003, avg FOR = 104, avg AGAINST = 83, avg DIFF = +21
• 2004, avg FOR = 110, avg AGAINST = 82, avg DIFF = +28
• 2005, avg FOR = 97, avg AGAINST = 98, avg DIFF = -1
• 2006, avg FOR = 84, avg AGAINST = 102, avg DIFF = -18
• 2007, avg FOR = 90, avg AGAINST = 86, avg DIFF = +4
• 2008, avg FOR = 98, avg AGAINST = 100, avg DIFF = -2
• 2009, avg FOR = 91, avg AGAINST = 88, avg DIFF = +3
• 2010, avg FOR = 81, avg AGAINST = 98, avg DIFF = -17
• 2011, avg FOR = 82, avg AGAINST = 102, avg DIFF = -20
• 2012, avg FOR = 87, avg AGAINST = 95, avg DIFF = -8
• 2013, avg FOR = 87, avg AGAINST = 97, avg DIFF = -10
• 2014, avg FOR = 70, avg AGAINST = 101, avg DIFF = -31
• (2015 so far, avg FOR = 61, avg AGAINST = 119, AVG DIFF = -58)

So it turns out that despite 2014 not being our worst year in terms of wins / ladder position, we had by far our worst year in terms of putting score on the board in our history since the merger. We also suffered on average the biggest losses in our history. Unfortunately 2015 has actually started off even worse [it is actually the worst start to the season after round 3 since the merger].

This thread might not help anyone feel any better about our predicament, but at least we know there is a good reason why we are sick of seeing our side get smashed early in the year.

[BTW, there is some really interesting info in some of the above stats, such as 2000 being our best scoring year on record - actually we only failed to reach 100 points 4 times that year out of 24 games. Also 1999 was actually our best year in terms of average difference, and 1998 was our worst year in terms of average points against]

 

[Lace Out]

Will probably be 5-30 first 7 rounds last 5 years.

Disappointing because this is when it counts.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Will probably be 5-30 first 7 rounds last 5 years.

Disappointing because this is when it counts.

2010

 

[Lace Out]

2010

No comprehende

 

[Happy_Neale]

2010

Last 5 years including this one I'm assuming he means.

 

[HowYouDoin]

The problem is. We will likely end up winning the last 6 out of 10 games like we do every year. Which will then make everyone forget about our terrible start to the year, and then it repeats.

As a lions fan i have but given up on our Team making the finals, because for that to happen we would actually need some sort of momentum at the start of the year. Which we never have.

Also, maybe we should look for coaches outside of ex brisbane players? Chris Scott was lucky enough to inherit an All star Geelong side, but how about the rest?

Brad Scott is leading Norf nowhere.
Voss was decent, but the damage he did to our club in 2010 was his undoing.
Leppa - Well, we all know how well he is doing

 

[Schache It Off]

Agreed, I have had enough of the shit starts and it pains me knowing that we won't be making finals for a couple of years....Our record would surely be rivaling Richmond right? Painful thought along with our bad crowds, memberships and finances...Will be a bleak future

 

[Sausages]

Bring back the biff.

They can have 4 points but it'll cost 'em somebody

 

[Lionguy]

The problem is. We will likely end up winning the last 6 out of 10 games like we do every year. Which will then make everyone forget about our terrible start to the year, and then it repeats.

As a lions fan i have but given up on our Team making the finals, because for that to happen we would actually need some sort of momentum at the start of the year. Which we never have.

Also, maybe we should look for coaches outside of ex brisbane players? Chris Scott was lucky enough to inherit an All star Geelong side, but how about the rest?

Brad Scott is leading Norf nowhere.
Voss was decent, but the damage he did to our club in 2010 was his undoing.
Leppa - Well, we all know how well he is doing

Interesting that the hugely successful Brisbane Lions of a decade ago produced a batch of average coaches, whereas the Fitzroy Lions of the 1980's, who had minimal on-field success, produced Paul Roos, Ross Lyon and Ken Hinkley. Maybe a bit of adversity as a player makes you a better coach...

 

[Kevvo]

Interesting that the hugely successful Brisbane Lions of a decade ago produced a batch of average coaches, whereas the Fitzroy Lions of the 1980's, who had minimal on-field success, produced Paul Roos, Ross Lyon and Ken Hinkley. Maybe a bit of adversity as a player makes you a better coach...

Don't agree.

Melbourne have done nothing under Roos. We finished above them last year with a younger side and worse injuries despite having an 'average' coach. We're three games into this year waiting for key players to return from injury, so you can hardly call which team is likely to finish higher this year.

Ross Lyon has done well taking over established lists that other coaches have built. No doubt he gets a lot out of senior players, but you're hardly comparing like with like. Look at where St Kilda is now after his tenure.

Ken Hinkley has done a great job. He is a very good coach. It's worth noting though that he grabbed Voss to be an assistant coach, despite years of our sides not starting well. Doesn't really fit with the 'average coach' story.

Chris Scott won a premiership in his first year.

I get the frustration, but I think you are substantially oversimplifying.

 

[dlanod]

Interesting that the hugely successful Brisbane Lions of a decade ago produced a batch of average coaches, whereas the Fitzroy Lions of the 1980's, who had minimal on-field success, produced Paul Roos, Ross Lyon and Ken Hinkley. Maybe a bit of adversity as a player makes you a better coach...

Coaches from the Brisbane Lions have the same number of premierships as the coaches from the Fitzroy Lions.

Plus the whole experience thing (15-20 years versus less than 10).

 

[Happy_Neale]

Saw an article today that shows us dead last for goals scored with 27. Next worst was Carlton...depressing stuff. Can't find it again though.

 

[Keays2myBeamas]

Saw an article today that shows us dead last for goals scored with 27. Next worst was Carlton...depressing stuff. Can't find it again though.

Even worse is the fact that we've actually only scored 26 goals.

 

[winged1]

Even worse is the fact that we've actually only scored 26 goals.

If WC let us get 11 goals ahead we will be in round 6

 

[Sir G]

Don't agree.

Melbourne have done nothing under Roos. We finished above them last year with a younger side and worse injuries despite having an 'average' coach. We're three games into this year waiting for key players to return from injury, so you can hardly call which team is likely to finish higher this year.

Ross Lyon has done well taking over established lists that other coaches have built. No doubt he gets a lot out of senior players, but you're hardly comparing like with like. Look at where St Kilda is now after his tenure.

Ken Hinkley has done a great job. He is a very good coach. It's worth noting though that he grabbed Voss to be an assistant coach, despite years of our sides not starting well. Doesn't really fit with the 'average coach' story.

Chris Scott won a premiership in his first year.

I get the frustration, but I think you are substantially oversimplifying.

Chris Scott inheriated a very well established and good playing list don't you think

 

[Tairy Greene]

Chris Scott inheriated a very well established and good playing list don't you think

And Ross Lyon hasn't? Twice?

 

[Balony_pony16]

Gotta feel for guys like adcock who have played most their career through that rubbish

 

[CarloLion]

Great thread LotR. Always enjoy reading your well researched posts

 

[James North]

I don't understand what the reason behind the bad starts to the year and the low average for/against points is?

Is it just that we don't score very many points?

 

[Kevvo]

Chris Scott inheriated a very well established and good playing list don't you think

Yeah, I reckon you missed my point. Chris Scott inherited a good list and won a premiership. Ross Lyon inherited a good list and didn't. Plenty of coaches with good lists don't win anything. I still think its pretty thin to generalise about average coaches from the Lions and good coaches from Fitzroy.

 

[Sir G]

Not saying anything against Scotty he's a great coach but he inheriated more established players with more finals and GF experience more than Ross Lyons mob and had a fair experience himself, premierships under the great man Lethal then brought with him

 

[Crimso]

Well this is one Lions fan that hasn't had enough, threes OK, but I'd like another three or four also!

 

[John_Proctor]

When I read the ex brisbane players as coaches I thought we were referring to our penchant for appointing recently retired players as assistants.

Essendon have Craig, Harvey, Neeld as three ex senior coaches on staff supporting Hird and we have a bunch of recently retired players and no names long term assistants without the experience in the top job supporting leppa.

Even Brett burton stepped straight out of footy into being high performance manager or whatever... What experience in running a training/diet/recovery program for 40+ people did he have to get that job aside from doing his own work as a player and I understand a degree in physio or something...

 

[Balony_pony16]

When I read the ex brisbane players as coaches I thought we were referring to our penchant for appointing recently retired players as assistants.

Essendon have Craig, Harvey, Neeld as three ex senior coaches on staff supporting Hird and we have a bunch of recently retired players and no names long term assistants without the experience in the top job supporting leppa.

Even Brett burton stepped straight out of footy into being high performance manager or whatever... What experience in running a training/diet/recovery program for 40+ people did he have to get that job aside from doing his own work as a player and I understand a degree in physio or something...

Burton was setting up for that role years before retirement... He had his own fitness company pre-retirement. Fitness is obviously a passion of his

 

[Kabanna]

Interesting that the hugely successful Brisbane Lions of a decade ago produced a batch of average coaches, whereas the Fitzroy Lions of the 1980's, who had minimal on-field success, produced Paul Roos, Ross Lyon and Ken Hinkley. Maybe a bit of adversity as a player makes you a better coach...

That's just like anything else in life.. just cause you're good at a particular something, doesn't make you a good teacher of it.