Win at all costs - $35 Million

Remove this Banner Ad

The AOD Project and all associated revenue streams?
OK. But that is a text from Dank. To Hird, not Evans. And it leads to nowhere. There is no follow-up to that bit.

Going by Danks known modus operandi, he was just fishing. Trying to net Evans in.

If Dank and Hird has something more on Evans, 100% I think they would have used it on him.
 
Other than Knights saying so, what else does she have.

With regard to Evans, I would think he knew about it by sep/oct 2012. And most definitely knew about a supp program prior. But up to his eyeballs in it? Where are the texts, the meetings, the emails, the vanity drug taking? Need roof.
We can't forget the word of our friendly neighbourhood sea kayaker on what Evans knew though!
 
yeah he had a shocker but I put it to you he should never have been there in the first place.

Essendon have not covered themselves in glory with any aspect of the whole saga. But the initial handling (and subsequently the rest of the handling) of the news becoming public and the resultant investigation was nothing short of catastrophic.

As I mentioned above, David Evans (if you'll excuse the comically mixed metaphors) simply shat the bed and dropped his dacks for Demetriou. That press conference was a disaster. Sitting in the glare of the media lights looking like death warmed up, as guilty as sin, was mind-blowingly stupid.

I've said it a number of times on our board, say what you like about someone like Eddie McGuire but he would never have allowed that ridiculous charade to go on if it was his club. He would have circled the wagons immediately and simply said "Nope. We are innocent, we've done nothing wrong. If you want to investigate go right ahead but bring a warrant and make sure you have good legal representation".

I know he's an AFL old boy as well, but his instinctive reaction would have been to fight and defend his club to the death. If EFC had have done that the end result might not have been any different, but Hird wouldn't have had to "take responsibility" and the public relations war that would wage for 3 years would have evolved from a very different initial setting, and the court of public opinion would not have been so overwhelmingly set on the end result, for a while at least.
Mind blowingly unbelievable post.


Isn't the right thing to actually come clean on what happened and cop your whack?
 

Log in to remove this ad.

yeah he had a shocker but I put it to you he should never have been there in the first place.

Essendon have not covered themselves in glory with any aspect of the whole saga. But the initial handling (and subsequently the rest of the handling) of the news becoming public and the resultant investigation was nothing short of catastrophic.

As I mentioned above, David Evans (if you'll excuse the comically mixed metaphors) simply shat the bed and dropped his dacks for Demetriou. That press conference was a disaster. Sitting in the glare of the media lights looking like death warmed up, as guilty as sin, was mind-blowingly stupid.

I've said it a number of times on our board, say what you like about someone like Eddie McGuire but he would never have allowed that ridiculous charade to go on if it was his club. He would have circled the wagons immediately and simply said "Nope. We are innocent, we've done nothing wrong. If you want to investigate go right ahead but bring a warrant and make sure you have good legal representation".

I know he's an AFL old boy as well, but his instinctive reaction would have been to fight and defend his club to the death. If EFC had have done that the end result might not have been any different, but Hird wouldn't have had to "take responsibility" and the public relations war that would wage for 3 years would have evolved from a very different initial setting, and the court of public opinion would not have been so overwhelmingly set on the end result, for a while at least.

I too find this to be an astounding viewpoint. Pretty much in every detail.

THe AFl, for whatever reason, has fought tooth and nail to minimise damage to Essendon.

As for "circling the wagons"? FFS. Just after that press conference (and you know why they all sat there looking guilty? Obvious) the Club hired Australia's most notorious paid bullshit artist and proceeded to use his skills to the extreme. EFC has become a synonym for LIAR.
 
I too find this to be an astounding viewpoint. Pretty much in every detail.

THe AFl, for whatever reason, has fought tooth and nail to minimise damage to Essendon.

As for "circling the wagons"? FFS. Just after that press conference (and you know why they all sat there looking guilty? Obvious) the Club hired Australia's most notorious paid bullshit artist and proceeded to use his skills to the extreme. EFC has become a synonym for LIAR.
if you don't really get what I'm saying that's fine. It's more about how to handle a situation, and that press conference did enormous damage with no positive consequences whatsoever. As I said, the eventual outcome wouldn't have changed but the EFC handling of it was rubbish. Whether you agree with me or not I find it hard for anyone to think that presser was a good idea. I mean, look how much it constantly gets a run on this board - the whole take responsibility thing, the looking guilty thing.

It's funny, you guys are so reflexive on your EFC hatred that instead of understanding that my comment was about how EFC had cocked up the handling of the aftermath as much as they cocked up the actual events of the saga here's you and others, and your "likers", interpreting it as an attempt to get out of it. Even though I clearly said it wouldn't probably have changed the outcome and it was obviously about how the organisation handle such an event.

Instead you bang on about the "morality" of it, as though morality plays any kind for role in public relations and crisis management.

Can't say I'm overly surprised.

And please, get your facts right. The club didn't hire Ian Hanke. James Hird hired Ian Hanke, and that wasn't until the club and Hird had absolutely parted ways on the way they wanted to respond to the situation. So they were completely separate parties with separate strategies, separate legal representations, the works.

For you to make that claim and ignore the other spin doctor in the room, the one that was hired by Evans on the behest of the AFL, and the one that was instrumental in setting up the press conference - exactly as my post was talking about - is sublime really
 
I love the comment, circle the wagons. Deny, deny, deny.


So ethically, we should accept any CEO or company that is at fault to deny everything to create plausible deniability.

Ffs, seriously.
****ing lol.

Yep, goddamn EFC and their morality, how dare they, so evil. Eh?

http://www.meltwater.com/au/blog/10-steps-to-managing-a-pr-crisis/

10 Step PR Crisis Management Playbook

Step 2: Circle the wagons.

So evil and so immoral of EFC to employ basic tenets of crisis management, derp



 
It's a pity they only seemed to read up to step 2 because everything after that was a PR disaster.
which is precisely the exact point I was making...

The whole thing was a PR disaster. And it was all made exponentially worse by that initial handling, by imprinting the public with the perception they were guilty. It was ludicrously amateurish, and driven largely by Evans and Demetriou's attempts to "manage" it
 
which is precisely the exact point I was making...

The whole thing was a PR disaster. And it was all made exponentially worse by that initial handling, by imprinting the public with the perception they were guilty. It was ludicrously amateurish, and driven largely by Evans and Demetriou's attempts to "manage" it

Yeah I wasn't entering the fray, just making an observation.

One of the other things I've never understood is why nobody at EFC seemed to understand that so long as Hird was coach, this thing would never go away (I don't believe the whole place was under his evil spell, just some of it). As soon as he goes, hey presto all the bad blood is kinda gone and people are tired of bashing the EFC.
 
I too find this to be an astounding viewpoint. Pretty much in every detail.

THe AFl, for whatever reason, has fought tooth and nail to minimise damage to Essendon.

As for "circling the wagons"? FFS. Just after that press conference (and you know why they all sat there looking guilty? Obvious) the Club hired Australia's most notorious paid bullshit artist and proceeded to use his skills to the extreme. EFC has become a synonym for LIAR.
I didn't even notice your AFL comment. WTF. How simplistic can you get?

The AFL "fought tooth and nail" to minimise damage to the players, not to Essendon. From the point James Hird went rogue, which was the Freo win in Round 4, in fact the AFL did everything in their power to damage Essendon, at least from a PR perspective. That included but was not limited to:
  • overt acts such as releasing confidential documents of their own investigation, with unproven facts masquerading as truth, as part of a tit for tat PR war
  • released confidential medical information, and well as information they had guaranteed to the players and others interviewed would remain confidential
  • penalised EFC in the middle of their own investigation
  • demanded that certain information removed from the interim report because it did not suit their narrative
  • and included less overt acts such as
    • hiring Liz Lukin and embedding her into the EFC camp to act as their agent
    • refusing to acknowledge that they knew as well as EFC did that there was never going to be an issue with AOD
    • engineering a fake call to MMM pretending to be the mother of a player (I know you will bleat this isn't true, so I am going to also state that it may not be true and may be simply my speculation)

It wasn't until it finally dawned on the AFL that they were incapable of managing the situation in-house, and that they were in significantly endangering a great deal of revenue, that they actually started trying to help EFC, and that wasn't until until early 2014
 
Yeah I wasn't entering the fray, just making an observation.

One of the other things I've never understood is why nobody at EFC seemed to understand that so long as Hird was coach, this thing would never go away (I don't believe the whole place was under his evil spell, just some of it). As soon as he goes, hey presto all the bad blood is kinda gone and people are tired of bashing the EFC.
they did understand it. However Hird retained the significant support of a large percentage of the EFC member base until quite late in the peace. Ironically due to the fact that the AFL went so hard to get him.

Even I was a supporter of Hird for a considerable period. It's a natural instinct to protect your own, and Hird was such a revered figure it made it even more acute. (Yes, that is absolutely an argument against hiring club idols into positions such as head coach)

And again much of that comes back to the initial handling I was commenting on. Had Evans, Demetriou and Lukin not gone so hard to crucify Hird he may well have not been so determined to dig in. Had Evans put his hand up and said he was just as culpable it might have been completely different. But of course he couldn't do that.

One of the biggest sliding door moments in the whole thing was that incredible come back in the second half of the Freo game. Without that Hird probably would have bowed to the AFL and stepped down, but after that stirring win he decided to fight
 
if you don't really get what I'm saying that's fine. It's more about how to handle a situation, and that press conference did enormous damage with no positive consequences whatsoever. As I said, the eventual outcome wouldn't have changed but the EFC handling of it was rubbish. Whether you agree with me or not I find it hard for anyone to think that presser was a good idea. I mean, look how much it constantly gets a run on this board - the whole take responsibility thing, the looking guilty thing.

It's funny, you guys are so reflexive on your EFC hatred that instead of understanding that my comment was about how EFC had cocked up the handling of the aftermath as much as they cocked up the actual events of the saga here's you and others, and your "likers", interpreting it as an attempt to get out of it. Even though I clearly said it wouldn't probably have changed the outcome and it was obviously about how the organisation handle such an event.

Instead you bang on about the "morality" of it, as though morality plays any kind for role in public relations and crisis management.

Can't say I'm overly surprised.

And please, get your facts right. The club didn't hire Ian Hanke. James Hird hired Ian Hanke, and that wasn't until the club and Hird had absolutely parted ways on the way they wanted to respond to the situation. So they were completely separate parties with separate strategies, separate legal representations, the works.

For you to make that claim and ignore the other spin doctor in the room, the one that was hired by Evans on the behest of the AFL, and the one that was instrumental in setting up the press conference - exactly as my post was talking about - is sublime really

The initial press conference was the right move if the strategy was to admit guilty (use Blackcats favourite limited hangout) and work for leniency with the AFL and ASADA. Hard to avoid looking guilty when this is the strategy. Of course there have to be fall guys with that strategy and Hird didn't want it to be him. I think it was only after the initial presser that Hird realised taking full responsibility (which as the face of the club he needed to do under this strategy) meant he was going to have to stand down.

The problem was Hird didn't want to go down quietly and was able to get EFC to change Strategy and deny any guilt and then fight it all the way through the courts. It was then a absolute cluster****.

EFC needed to pick a strategy and stick to it. Who knows how it would have gone if the had just denied any issues and refused to co-operate but Evans strategy would IMO resulted in a 4 week ban like Cronulla..
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

which is precisely the exact point I was making...

The whole thing was a PR disaster. And it was all made exponentially worse by that initial handling, by imprinting the public with the perception they were guilty. It was ludicrously amateurish, and driven largely by Evans and Demetriou's attempts to "manage" it
It was a PR disaster because they treated it as a PR issue.

Create a narrative.
Deflect.
Lie.
Manipulative.
Shift blame.
Try to weasel out of it.
Etc.
Etc.

All Essendon had to do, was be up front and honest.

That would have been the best PR. By a mile.


Also the right thing to do.


They couldn't have weaseled out of it no matter what. God knows they tried and called on favours from anyone and everyone to do so.

So everyone still would have lost their jobs. The players still would copped bans.

The AFL still would have gone soft to minimise the damage.


But, it would have been over ages ago. And there may have been a skerrick of respect remaining for that sham of a club.

Instead, we're still going 4 years later, with the club the biggest laughing stock in the history of world sport. With no indication that that will ever change.


The drug cheating pales into insignificance compared to the weaseling and bullshitting that they have dished up for 3 years.
 
The initial press conference was the right move if the strategy was to admit guilty (use Blackcats favourite limited hangout) and work for leniency with the AFL and ASADA. Hard to avoid looking guilty when this is the strategy. Of course there have to be fall guys with that strategy and Hird didn't want it to be him. I think it was only after the initial presser that Hird realised taking full responsibility (which as the face of the club he needed to do under this strategy) meant he was going to have to stand down.

The problem was Hird didn't want to go down quietly and was able to get EFC to change Strategy and deny any guilt and then fight it all the way through the courts. It was then a absolute cluster****.

EFC needed to pick a strategy and stick to it. Who knows how it would have gone if the had just denied any issues and refused to co-operate but Evans strategy would IMO resulted in a 4 week ban like Cronulla..
yeah, good points. I agree with most of that.

The main reason for the muddled strategy imo was that they were trying to execute a strategy that was never going to work for all parties. They didn't think hard enough about it, they didn't identify who would need what and how it would play out. They were all divided.

The absolute key is, though, admitting guilt and going for leniency was never, ever going to work. The minute the independent regulator got involved, which they were always going to, it meant the AFL couldn't manage it, and they all made promises they couldn't keep.

I disagree with your conclusion that it would have been a 4 week ban. That only came about as a circuit-breaker late in the peace by an organisation stretched to almost breaking point, in asada. If EFC had admitted guilt there was no leverage. The whole make a deal ethos was a major driver in the whole **** up
 
It was a PR disaster because they treated it as a PR issue.

Create a narrative.
Deflect.
Lie.
Manipulative.
Shift blame.
Try to weasel out of it.
Etc.
Etc.

All Essendon had to do, was be up front and honest.

That would have been the best PR. By a mile.


Also the right thing to do.


They couldn't have weaseled out of it no matter what. God knows they tried and called on favours from anyone and everyone to do so.

So everyone still would have lost their jobs. The players still would copped bans.

The AFL still would have gone soft to minimise the damage.


But, it would have been over ages ago. And there may have been a skerrick of respect remaining for that sham of a club.

Instead, we're still going 4 years later, with the club the biggest laughing stock in the history of world sport. With no indication that that will ever change.


The drug cheating pales into insignificance compared to the weaseling and bullshitting that they have dished up for 3 years.
since your throwing around cliches I might join you.

Hindsight is always 20/20

As for your hyperbole around shams and laughing stocks that will never change, meh. It's just words, it's complete twaddle. Sure you will always have a burning hatred and you'll throw around "Essendope" on BF, as will others.

But it means nothing. Just like the echoes of Carlton's cheating means nothing other than banter. Hell, you support one of the most historically incompetent clubs that have existed in the AFL, with almost annual scandals. So what?

It's over. Suck it up or don't, I don't care. EFC are keeping all their players, they've kept their supporters, they've kept their sponsors. As of September 1 this year this sage is dead in the water whether you like it or not. But I do very much look forward to you continuing to stoke the fires, I shall enjoy that
 
they did understand it. However Hird retained the significant support of a large percentage of the EFC member base until quite late in the peace. Ironically due to the fact that the AFL went so hard to get him.

Even I was a supporter of Hird for a considerable period. It's a natural instinct to protect your own, and Hird was such a revered figure it made it even more acute. (Yes, that is absolutely an argument against hiring club idols into positions such as head coach)

And again much of that comes back to the initial handling I was commenting on. Had Evans, Demetriou and Lukin not gone so hard to crucify Hird he may well have not been so determined to dig in. Had Evans put his hand up and said he was just as culpable it might have been completely different. But of course he couldn't do that.

One of the biggest sliding door moments in the whole thing was that incredible come back in the second half of the Freo game. Without that Hird probably would have bowed to the AFL and stepped down, but after that stirring win he decided to fight

Not sure Evans would have been the scalp needed (and AFL protects it's own anyway) it always had to be Hird. It's on his head for not recognising it, which is strange considering many of his supporters think he is some sort of cerebral genius. Don't disagree with anything you have posted above.
 
yeah, good points. I agree with most of that.

The main reason for the muddled strategy imo was that they were trying to execute a strategy that was never going to work for all parties. They didn't think hard enough about it, they didn't identify who would need what and how it would play out. They were all divided.

The absolute key is, though, admitting guilt and going for leniency was never, ever going to work. The minute the independent regulator got involved, which they were always going to, it meant the AFL couldn't manage it, and they all made promises they couldn't keep.

I disagree with your conclusion that it would have been a 4 week ban. That only came about as a circuit-breaker late in the peace by an organisation stretched to almost breaking point, in asada. If EFC had admitted guilt there was no leverage. The whole make a deal ethos was a major driver in the whole **** up

1. I think that Evans had identified how it would play out and it was only the Hird couldn't see what was plainly obvious to everyone else that was the problem.

2. The strategy was never a full admission of guilt and would have not put them in a worse position than the revised strategy, they just wouldn't have looked as guilty. It was more about being seen to do the right thing. I don't believe they would have lost leverage as Evans was never accepting a 2 year ban.

3 Would fighting been a better strategy? Most of the information would have come out, they would have looked guilty and backdating would have probably been off the table. AFL penalties would have been harsher
 
The absolute key is, though, admitting guilt and going for leniency was never, ever going to work. The minute the independent regulator got involved, which they were always going to, it meant the AFL couldn't manage it, and they all made promises they couldn't keep.

I disagree with your conclusion that it would have been a 4 week ban. That only came about as a circuit-breaker late in the peace by an organisation stretched to almost breaking point, in asada. If EFC had admitted guilt there was no leverage. The whole make a deal ethos was a major driver in the whole **** up

Agree With most of the points you been making here Lance, but disagree on this one I think there could have been a NRL style deal, end of season and into the offseason. Even as late as the AFL tribunal ASADA was supportive, or at least not opposed to, no sig fault and backdating.

WADA would have publicly complained like they did with the NRL deal but would have accepted it. Especially if Essendon accepted it after the NRL deal went through (precedent set) and it was back dated for the same reasons. Might have been slightly different in terms of games...some end of season and missed start of preseason training and NAB challenge game(s) but would have started round 1 2015 all clear.
 
Agree With most of the points you been making here Lance, but disagree on this one I think there could have been a NRL style deal, end of season and into the offseason. Even as late as the AFL tribunal ASADA was supportive, or at least not opposed to, no sig fault and backdating.

WADA would have publicly complained like they did with the NRL deal but would have accepted it. Especially if Essendon accepted it after the NRL deal went through (precedent set) and it was back dated for the same reasons. Might have been slightly different in terms of games...some end of season and missed start of preseason training and NAB challenge game(s) but would have started round 1 2015 all clear.
maybe.
 
if you don't really get what I'm saying that's fine. It's more about how to handle a situation, and that press conference did enormous damage with no positive consequences whatsoever. As I said, the eventual outcome wouldn't have changed but the EFC handling of it was rubbish. Whether you agree with me or not I find it hard for anyone to think that presser was a good idea. I mean, look how much it constantly gets a run on this board - the whole take responsibility thing, the looking guilty thing.

It's funny, you guys are so reflexive on your EFC hatred that instead of understanding that my comment was about how EFC had cocked up the handling of the aftermath as much as they cocked up the actual events of the saga here's you and others, and your "likers", interpreting it as an attempt to get out of it. Even though I clearly said it wouldn't probably have changed the outcome and it was obviously about how the organisation handle such an event.

Instead you bang on about the "morality" of it, as though morality plays any kind for role in public relations and crisis management.

Can't say I'm overly surprised.

And please, get your facts right. The club didn't hire Ian Hanke. James Hird hired Ian Hanke, and that wasn't until the club and Hird had absolutely parted ways on the way they wanted to respond to the situation. So they were completely separate parties with separate strategies, separate legal representations, the works.

For you to make that claim and ignore the other spin doctor in the room, the one that was hired by Evans on the behest of the AFL, and the one that was instrumental in setting up the press conference - exactly as my post was talking about - is sublime really

Garbage Lance. Really. I get exactly what you're saying. But I think it's superficial and naive.

How could you NOT hold a press conference under the circumstances. And once there, do you say the ACC is full of shit and go straight to deny deny deny?

There was no good way to handle the response. Did the weasel words of choice come back to haunt? Yes.

But here's a mental exercise. Report back with ANYTHING which could have been said that day (other than we doped the shit out of our team and please give us all a good spanking) which would have been any better down the track. They looked guilty because they **** ing well were. And would have looked just as guilty whatever they said.

And even though I never mentioned it, I wonder that you find "morality" worthy of contempt.

And please, get your facts right. The club didn't hire Ian Hanke. James Hird hired Ian Hanke, and that wasn't until the club and Hird had absolutely parted ways on the way they wanted to respond to the situation. So they were completely separate parties with separate strategies, separate legal representations, the works.

Really? Who paid for Hanke? Who by the way was hired 6 weeks before Hird "went rogue".

The AFL "fought tooth and nail" to minimise damage to the players, not to Essendon.

You're a seriously funny guy.
 
Garbage Lance. Really. I get exactly what you're saying. But I think it's superficial and naive.

How could you NOT hold a press conference under the circumstances. And once there, do you say the ACC is full of shit and go straight to deny deny deny?

There was no good way to handle the response. Did the weasel words of choice come back to haunt? Yes.

But here's a mental exercise. Report back with ANYTHING which could have been said that day (other than we doped the shit out of our team and please give us all a good spanking) which would have been any better down the track. They looked guilty because they **** ing well were. And would have looked just as guilty whatever they said.

And even though I never mentioned it, I wonder that you find "morality" worthy of contempt.



Really? Who paid for Hanke? Who by the way was hired 6 weeks before Hird "went rogue".



You're a seriously funny guy.
Oh really?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...gram-at-essendon/story-e6frf9l6-1226632641488

It emerged yesterday the Bombers have engaged a public relations expert, Elizabeth Lukin of Essential Media Communications, to help manage the crisis at Windy Hill.

James Hird's own legal team is also being advised by leading spin doctor Ian Hanke.

"I run Media and Political Counsel and I have been advising Mr Hird's legal advisers, Ashurst, on media and communications strategy over the past weeks," Hanke said yesterday.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...gram-at-essendon/story-e6frf9l6-1226632641488

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/bombers-are-yet-to-face-facts-20130717-2q4n9.html

Hird hired the hard-line spin doctor Ian Hanke as his media adviser when it became clear he would require one

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/bombers-are-yet-to-face-facts-20130717-2q4n9.html

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/its-getting-ugly-as-saga-takes-its-toll-20130725-2qng9.html

It always seemed strange that Hird had hired a separate legal team and public relations team to that of his club and his chairman and close friend Evans.

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/its-getting-ugly-as-saga-takes-its-toll-20130725-2qng9.html

So yeah, Hanke was hired by Hird and paid for by Hird. I assume you're going to provide sources or evidence for your assertion to the contrary?
 
Last edited:
Hanke advising Hird's legal advisors. That clears things up. I might start getting my Sales Manager to advise my HR manager. Could be fun.
 
It was a PR disaster because they treated it as a PR issue.

All Essendon had to do, was be up front and honest.

Wrong

Admit everyone knew that they the program was dodgy?
Admit the Doctor told everyone the program was dodgy and that the advice was buried and then he made no attempts to follow it up?
Admit the reasons why they got a convicted drug dealer with a history of doping involved in the supply of drugs?
Admit that the coaches and future CEO were lining up for banned drugs.

Given there are numerous incriminating emails, how many incriminating conversations do you think were held that we haven't heard about?

What they needed to do was say the course of the PR strategy and repeat the message. Go with the Limited Hangout. Admit part of the truth (as they were knicked) and control the message, but never the whole truth.

Not sure going with "we don't know what was injected but we are sure it is not banned" was ever going to fly though.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Win at all costs - $35 Million

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top