Society/Culture Woke. Can you tell real from parody? - Part 2 -

[CM86]

What an insane meltdown!

 

[Muddiemoose]

There's a moon landing thread where someone occasionally posts 'proof' that the landings were faked, the 'proof' promptly gets debunked by someone, the poster completely ignores the debunking and later returns with more 'proof'. I have no idea if it's some kind of long game parody or what

Like the flat earth’s that conducted experiments to prove themselves correct but when they didn’t get the results they wanted they blamed the equipment… they made thier own equipment and got the same results

 

[rank and file]

Thanks for the link that you didn't provide!

Poor form to link gambling sites,feeble minds could go broke.

 

[Cap]

What an insane meltdown!

View attachment 1900992

Ha, so it was a trap

 

[Tadpole]

There's a moon landing thread where someone occasionally posts 'proof' that the landings were faked, the 'proof' promptly gets debunked by someone, the poster completely ignores the debunking and later returns with more 'proof'. I have no idea if it's some kind of long game parody or what

My money would be on "or what".

 

[evolved2]

Carringbush2010 has been consistently clear in their response to you.
They understand your point and your position. And they are just explaining how it does your arguments a disservice if you're genuine with your position.


I think CB2010, or someone else, pointed out to you that if you agree that language is intentionally fluid, then you'd have to accept that gendered terms are also fluid.
But I don't think you'd be able to respond to that, so it's fair that you'd avoid it.

Language has always been fluid. There wouldn't be any reason to update the dictionary otherwise. The term 'woke' can be used in different contexts and it's currently understood in general society as both, so the meaning of the word has evolved. I don't see that as disingenuous reasoning. As has been pointed out here, the term gay changed meaning from happy to homosexual, so you have a previous template. I'm quite sure you're not disputing the right of homosexuals to use the term gay, so you must also agree that the definition of 'woke' can change over time.

I've posted what I consider to be a valid definition of 'woke' in this thread as an alternative or modern definition, as have others. Surely word definitions don't matter much in the bigger scheme of things.

Gender doesn't really have a meaning outside how we identify ourselves. It's fluid in that it can't be objectively defined. Do you agree?

 

[CM86]

Language has always been fluid. There wouldn't be any reason to update the dictionary otherwise. The term 'woke' can be used in different contexts and it's currently understood in general society as both, so the meaning of the word has evolved. I don't see that as disingenuous reasoning. As has been pointed out here, the term gay changed meaning from happy to homosexual, so you have a previous template. I'm quite sure you're not disputing the right of homosexuals to use the term gay, so you must also agree that the definition of 'woke' can change over time.

I've posted what I consider to be a valid definition of 'woke' in this thread as an alternative or modern definition, as have others. Surely word definitions don't matter much in the bigger scheme of things.

Gender doesn't really have a meaning outside how we identify ourselves. It's fluid in that it can't be objectively defined. Do you agree?

Of course.

So you support transgenderism and nonbinary, because you agree that gender is based on how we identify ourself?

So why did you ask for someone else to define man and woman for you?
I don't think you ever replied when you were given an answer.

 

[evolved2]

Of course.

So you support transgenderism and nonbinary, because you agree that gender is based on how we identify ourself?

I try to accept people for who they are, including transgender people.

So why did you ask for someone else to define man and woman for you?
I don't think you ever replied when you were given an answer.

My memory is shite and I frequently miss replies. Link the post and I'll respond...if I don't forget.

 

[CM86]

Society/Culture - Woke. Can you tell real from parody?

Oops, sorry. Wrong quote!

Society/Culture - Woke. Can you tell real from parody?

 

[evolved2]

In the context of biology its those assigned male/female at birth.

In the context of gender identity, it's those that associate most with the norms and expectations of male/female.

This isn't quite the gotcha you RWNJ's think it is

That's a very reasonable response. I'll take the loss.

 

[evolved2]

Nice melt.

You're on a rampage tonight. RUOK?

 

[evolved2]

I was kidding, it was a really rational response.

Thanks. Have a good one, mate.

 

[Engimal v3]

That's a very reasonable response. I'll take the loss.

 

[sr36]

Language has always been fluid. There wouldn't be any reason to update the dictionary otherwise. The term 'woke' can be used in different contexts and it's currently understood in general society as both, so the meaning of the word has evolved. I don't see that as disingenuous reasoning. As has been pointed out here, the term gay changed meaning from happy to homosexual, so you have a previous template. I'm quite sure you're not disputing the right of homosexuals to use the term gay, so you must also agree that the definition of 'woke' can change over time.

I've posted what I consider to be a valid definition of 'woke' in this thread as an alternative or modern definition, as have others. Surely word definitions don't matter much in the bigger scheme of things.

Gender doesn't really have a meaning outside how we identify ourselves. It's fluid in that it can't be objectively defined. Do you agree?

The thing with the word "woke" is that it's meaning is a bit like gender in that it's up to the view of the individual. but unlike gender it's current connotation is universally negative. It's meaning is fluid and undefined, but with a negative connotation - making it a meaningless dismissive slur.

 

[evolved2]

The thing with the word "woke" is that it's meaning is a bit like gender in that it's up to the view of the individual. but unlike gender it's current connotation is universally negative. It's meaning is fluid and undefined, but with a negative connotation - making it a meaningless dismissive slur.

Much like the term RWNJ, I suppose.

 

[Engimal v3]

The thing with the word "woke" is that it's meaning is a bit like gender in that it's up to the view of the individual. but unlike gender it's current connotation is universally negative. It's meaning is fluid and undefined, but with a negative connotation - making it a meaningless dismissive slur.

Definitions of gender isn't really up to the individual - it's just that people have a hard time understanding that there is an actual difference between sex/gender that isn't just in the minds of blue haired people from Melbourne.

 

[sr36]

Much like the term RWNJ, I suppose.

Absolutely. Read back, I was the one who gave you that idea.

 

[Father Jack]

"I don't like the term woke because I hear woke, woke, woke, you know, it's like just a term they use," Trump said. "Half the people can't even define it. They don't know what it is."

But just hours after making that statement, he used it multiple times in a town hall on Fox News.

"A lot of things going on with our military, with the woke and all this nonsense," he said. "They're not learning to fight and protect us from some very bad people. They want to go woke. They want to go woke."

Spoiler: link

https://www.npr.org/2023/07/21/1189016049/woke-desantis-trump-black-culture

That sums up the term and usage of 'woke' for me, the acceptance that 'half the people' can't define it but people will use it anyway because it's useful because it allows people to assign any meaning to it they like and to be against something without having to bother defining why.

It's not language being fluid, it's language being deliberately vague and meaningless. One giant undefined dog whistle.

 

[evolved2]

Absolutely. Read back, I was the one who gave you that idea.

I'm not willing to concede on that point.

While it's not an original idea, I suspect that I shared it in this thread before you. I haven't done a search yet.

 

[ferball]

Language has always been fluid. There wouldn't be any reason to update the dictionary otherwise. The term 'woke' can be used in different contexts and it's currently understood in general society as both, so the meaning of the word has evolved. I don't see that as disingenuous reasoning. As has been pointed out here, the term gay changed meaning from happy to homosexual, so you have a previous template. I'm quite sure you're not disputing the right of homosexuals to use the term gay, so you must also agree that the definition of 'woke' can change over time.

I've posted what I consider to be a valid definition of 'woke' in this thread as an alternative or modern definition, as have others. Surely word definitions don't matter much in the bigger scheme of things.

Gender doesn't really have a meaning outside how we identify ourselves. It's fluid in that it can't be objectively defined. Do you agree?

The term gay was used by a group of oppressed people to self identify as part of the process of overcoming their oppression.

The term woke was used by a group of oppressed people for a century to identify awareness of the mechanisms of their oppression then appropriated by a bunch of people who either wanted to look good by associating themselves with awareness of that oppression (while being part of the apparatus of it, also fwiw I think that use of the word could be described as virtue signalling) then appropriated by people who wanted to continue oppressing people who they didn't like for one reason or another.

You're continuing their use of it but not necessarily with the same opressive motivations the right in the US had when they started using it.

Its not quite the same process as the way the meaning of the word "gay" changed. In many ways its the direct opposite.

 

[Gough]

The term gay was used by a group of oppressed people to self identify as part of the process of overcoming their oppression.

The term woke was used by a group of oppressed people for a century to identify awareness of the mechanisms of their oppression then appropriated by a bunch of people who either wanted to look good by associating themselves with awareness of that oppression (while being part of the apparatus of it, also fwiw I think that use of the word could be described as virtue signalling) then appropriated by people who wanted to continue oppressing people who they didn't like for one reason or another.

You're continuing their use of it but not necessarily with the same opressive motivations the right in the US had when they started using it.

Its not quite the same process as the way the meaning of the word "gay" changed. In many ways its the direct opposite.

Queer is another word that's been reclaimed a bit recently, it disappeared for a long time among a lot of gay people my age because queer implied otherliness and when you were still fighting for acceptance it didn't really help your cause much. It's nice to see young people grab the word and embrace it.

 

[ferball]

Queer is another word that's been reclaimed a bit recently, it disappeared for a long time among a lot of gay people my age because queer implied otherliness and when you were still fighting for acceptance it didn't really help your cause much. It's nice to see young people grab the word and embrace it.

It helps that as a society we're much more prepared to accept otherness these days.

 

[demondavey]

Conspiracy theorists are society's alarm system. Sure, they produce a lot of false positives, but they are essential to protect society. You can ignore one theory and embrace another. That is the beauty of it.

Zero Hedge was the first place I saw the idea that covid 19 was accidentally/negligently released from the Wuhan Lab - I remember reading this in March 2020. It is pretty much accepted now that this is where covid originated.

They produce nothing productive to society

 

[demondavey]

Conspiracy theorists are society's alarm system. Sure, they produce a lot of false positives, but they are essential to protect society. You can ignore one theory and embrace another. That is the beauty of it.

Zero Hedge was the first place I saw the idea that covid 19 was accidentally/negligently released from the Wuhan Lab - I remember reading this in March 2020. It is pretty much accepted now that this is where covid originated.

It’s most definitely not accepted.

 

[demondavey]

I'm loving the fine view of woke posters melting over being defined as woke by those who use a different definition of the word. It's as beautiful as walking along the beach under sunset.

What do you define as woke these days?