Working from home, good/bad?

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Kwality said:
Do you have any idea about productivity ?
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I transitioned from being an Electrician to a Project Management role about 2 years ago, the first 5 months was office based and then COVID ramped up in Perth and everyone began working from home primarily. No one has gone back to the office.

I look after projects across roughly 6 different sites and will usually have a site visit 1-2 times a week. One of the sites is an hour and a half drive, so I’ll typically get to site for 6:30am and leave around 1:30pm, utilising a hot desk on site. Some people take the piss though and I see them sign in at site around 10am and leave at 12:30, spending 3 hours of their day driving. I personally go to that site once a week and occasionally twice, however I have an extremely flexible work/life balance. I plan my own days and start/finish when I want, as long as your phone is still answerable until about 3:30pm no one bats an eyelid. I’ve merged my personal and work phones through dual sim, so I offer to be reachable 24/7 basically and while on leave, but with the restriction that I’m not always going to be on my laptop and everyone is happy with that. In turn, if I have a personal commitment during the day I can just block the time out in my calendar and go and do it. I put in sick leave for 4 hours once and my boss called me to say he’s cancelled it, and that the role is swings and roundabouts, do what you need to do.

Standard day is to work from home for 8-9 hours somewhere between 6am-4pm. I get more done not having to commute, I can take small breaks and do a few house chores to keep the missus happy while I’m having a break from the laptop and if I want to have some communication in person, I’ve basically always got a reason to pop in to a site.

Would struggle to go back to an office based job, especially a fishbowl/open plan set up. Couldn’t think of anything worse.
 
Alberto_Magnifico said:
My company tried to off-shore large parts of its IT and project finance/administration and learnt that the apparent cost savings weren't worth it long term and went back to local staff.
Created way too many problems with mistakes, training issues, local staff being hired to "babysit" and ultimately spend more money redoing poor work, loss in local productivity, and the apparent negative cultural impact it had on the rest of the company. Several good staff left during this period and they told me that outsourcing was part of it, I'm sure the feedback was provided in their exit interviews.
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I worked at a place many years ago who offshored the IT dept. Like 2 weeks in one IT guy managed to delete every single persons Office 365 account and 2 Factor Authentication of the 1000 odd staff the company had. The only way to get it back on was to individually assign a license. Excel and Outlook was 95% of the business so a good 2 days lost of productivity. 2 weeks later another IT guy released one of those spam emails from Aus post that managed to cryptolock everything plus the file server The file server was 90% of the job too and then for some reason they had issues restoring the backups. 4 days until people could do even the most basic parts of the job with a ton of people unable to work for a good 2 months.

3 months in and they like "We are going local again" and everyone just laughed at that point. The financial damage it would have cost the company would have been in the 10s if not hundreds of millions. Not like the IT department was big either. It was like 8 people at the time at most if i remember right and maybe the saving would have been 300k a year like difference too
 
HirdsTheWord said:
depends on the situation. CBA have done specific research that shows their company benefits from people being in the office.

I think flexibility in the workplace isn't going anywhere but being in the office 50% of the time is more than reasonable if thats how CBA want to run their business.
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Funny how a company that wants it's workers back in the office has research that shows it benefits from it.
Who would have thought?
 
HillToKing said:
Funny how a company that wants it's workers back in the office has research that shows it benefits from it.
Who would have thought?
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dumb post, tin foil hat type thinking.

CBA would financially benefit from people WFH full time. They want people in the office because it has tangible benefits.
 
HirdsTheWord said:
dumb post, tin foil hat type thinking.

CBA would financially benefit from people WFH full time. They want people in the office because it has tangible benefits.
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The only dumb thing here is thinking that companies don't conduct research that gives them results that support what they want.
Not tinfoil hat thinking at all. It happens in reality, frequently. Want a certain result? Conduct a study in a way that gives you the result you're after.

Has tangible benefits for who? The people that want to continue to work from home or the company that did the research that wants their workers to return to the office?

I've got no skin in the game. I neither work in a position that can be done from home and nor would I work from home. I just don't see what the big deal is and why these companies are trying to force people back into an office they don't want to be in for whatever reason. People wanna work from home and can still complete their job according to key indicators, great let them. People wanna go back to the office that's cool too.
 
HillToKing said:
The only dumb thing here is thinking that companies don't conduct research that gives them results that support what they want.
Not tinfoil hat thinking at all. It happens in reality, frequently. Want a certain result? Conduct a study in a way that gives you the result you're after.

Has tangible benefits for who? The people that want to continue to work from home or the company that did the research that wants their workers to return to the office?

I've got no skin in the game. I neither work in a position that can be done from home and nor would I work from home. I just don't see what the big deal is and why these companies are trying to force people back into an office they don't want to be in for whatever reason. People wanna work from home and can still complete their job according to key indicators, great let them. People wanna go back to the office that's cool too.
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Why on earth would CBA want employees back in the office then? What is the conspiracy you see? What benefit do they have to manufacture data?

CBA would save a lot more money allowing their staff to work from home full time. They are one of the biggest M2 of leased office space in the country., yet they want them in the office. There is obviously a benefit for them in doing so. They aren't the only company doing it, more and more companies are reversing full time WFH.

Clearly, as you put it the key indicators from the company aren't being met, CBA believe by having people in the office they will be more efficient and collaborative. Which is entirely their right to decide.


At the end of the day its simple. if you don't like your employers' working conditions. Leave the company and go somewhere that fits your needs.
 
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I think people need to look at it a bit deeper than what is the most efficient way for them personally to get their job done. I'd say 4-6 days in office per fortnight will be pretty standard for those who can reasonably work from home.

I think in a lot of instances, you need to strike the balance between 'same rules for everyone' and 'a bit of common sense with expectations of your team members to be in the office in Melbourne CBD, depending on whether they live in Richmond or Bendigo. I'm returning from a secondment in a VPS department tomorrow and it's been striking how much worse the in office experience was where I've just been: BYO keyboard/mouse, compared to plug in and away you go; people ignoring the desk booking system and invariably finding someone sitting in the desk that I'd booked, no milk in the fridge. never set me up for the printer etc.

I had other justified reasons where I could almost exclusively work from home, but they basically did nothing to sweeten the deal, so I rarely bothered. I'll definitely be making more of an effort back at my original office: I like being in the office and I see the value that it brings and that's hard to measure. You can make it a bit easier on people with a bit of common sense: we have 'core hours': on your days in the office try to be there by 10 and stick around until at least 2, things like that. I know at my work, the people who aren't willing to do anything that would inconvenience them stand out like dog's balls and they certainly don't do much to foster a positive culture.
 

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MC Extra Dollop said:
I think people need to look at it a bit deeper than what is the most efficient way for them personally to get their job done. I'd say 4-6 days in office per fortnight will be pretty standard for those who can reasonably work from home.

I think in a lot of instances, you need to strike the balance between 'same rules for everyone' and 'a bit of common sense with expectations of your team members to be in the office in Melbourne CBD, depending on whether they live in Richmond or Bendigo. I'm returning from a secondment in a VPS department tomorrow and it's been striking how much worse the in office experience was where I've just been: BYO keyboard/mouse, compared to plug in and away you go; people ignoring the desk booking system and invariably finding someone sitting in the desk that I'd booked, no milk in the fridge. never set me up for the printer etc.

I had other justified reasons where I could almost exclusively work from home, but they basically did nothing to sweeten the deal, so I rarely bothered. I'll definitely be making more of an effort back at my original office: I like being in the office and I see the value that it brings and that's hard to measure. You can make it a bit easier on people with a bit of common sense: we have 'core hours': on your days in the office try to be there by 10 and stick around until at least 2, things like that. I know at my work, the people who aren't willing to do anything that would inconvenience them stand out like dog's balls and they certainly don't do much to foster a positive culture.
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On that core hours of 10-2, does your company allow travel during work hours if you are heading home to work for the afternoon?
 
RU_ said:
On that core hours of 10-2, does your company allow travel during work hours if you are heading home to work for the afternoon?
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Yeah I think it's common sense that those hours mainly relate to parents with school drop offs or pick ups to negotiate. And similarly common sense that if work's going to give you that opportunity, then you're obliged to make the extra time up somewhere else (for me it's usually been getting a couple of hours in before the kids are up at 6:30ish).
 
MC Extra Dollop said:
Yeah I think it's common sense that those hours mainly relate to parents with school drop offs or pick ups to negotiate. And similarly common sense that if work's going to give you that opportunity, then you're obliged to make the extra time up somewhere else (for me it's usually been getting a couple of hours in before the kids are up at 6:30ish).
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Going forward those roles will be eagerly sought & the market will adjust in private enterprise, with the leaners shuffled out.

Can the Government sector adjust?

Noting that the majority(?) of the workforce dont have these benefits.
 
MC Extra Dollop said:
I think people need to look at it a bit deeper than what is the most efficient way for them personally to get their job done. I'd say 4-6 days in office per fortnight will be pretty standard for those who can reasonably work from home.

I think in a lot of instances, you need to strike the balance between 'same rules for everyone' and 'a bit of common sense with expectations of your team members to be in the office in Melbourne CBD, depending on whether they live in Richmond or Bendigo. I'm returning from a secondment in a VPS department tomorrow and it's been striking how much worse the in office experience was where I've just been: BYO keyboard/mouse, compared to plug in and away you go; people ignoring the desk booking system and invariably finding someone sitting in the desk that I'd booked, no milk in the fridge. never set me up for the printer etc.

I had other justified reasons where I could almost exclusively work from home, but they basically did nothing to sweeten the deal, so I rarely bothered. I'll definitely be making more of an effort back at my original office: I like being in the office and I see the value that it brings and that's hard to measure. You can make it a bit easier on people with a bit of common sense: we have 'core hours': on your days in the office try to be there by 10 and stick around until at least 2, things like that. I know at my work, the people who aren't willing to do anything that would inconvenience them stand out like dog's balls and they certainly don't do much to foster a positive culture.
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Agree with most of what you say but It is 100% up to the employer how they want to run their business. If they think its best served from people being in the office, then they should get back into the office, which is the same as if they think its WFH, then people can WFH.

If you dont like the way your employer operates, one way or the other leave and go somewhere that offers what you want.

It really is that simple.

its laughable that even in situations like CBA where they are only requesting 50% split of time in office and home, that people still have a whinge.
 
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HirdsTheWord said:
Agree with most of what you say but It is 100% up to the employer how they want to run their business. If they think its best served from people being in the office, then they should get back into the office, which is the same as if they think its WFH, then people can WFH.

If you dont like the way your employer operates, one way or the other leave and go somewhere that offers what you want.

It really is that simple.

its laughable that even in situations like CBA where they are only requesting 50% split of time in office and home, that people still have a whinge.
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They'll have a whinge but will they leave?
 
owen87 said:
They'll have a whinge but will they leave?
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I dont get why someone would want to stay working for somewhere where they aren't happy.

IMO the people who want to WFH full time will be weeded out as the economy slows and unemployment goes up. From my experience the ones who can do their job full time at home are very basic admin type roles, and easily replaced.

I'm certainly in favour of flexibility in the workplace but demanding to WFH full time is not being flexible, it's just as rigid as a business saying you need to be in the office full time. has to work both ways.
 
HirdsTheWord said:
I dont get why someone would want to stay working for somewhere where they aren't happy.

IMO the people who want to WFH full time will be weeded out as the economy slows and unemployment goes up. From my experience the ones who can do their job full time at home are very basic admin type roles, and easily replaced.

I'm certainly in favour of flexibility in the workplace but demanding to WFH full time is not being flexible, it's just as rigid as a business saying you need to be in the office full time. has to work both ways.
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I mean there are an absolute ton of people in IT that are not doing basic admin that are remote and have been for a long time

easily replaced is pretty much anyone at a large company though, they don't give a shit, you're just a number
 
I'm really good at my job but I burn out quickly doing it for hours at a time.
Bit of gardening, footy replay, cooking, gym, household chores, hobbies break it up a bit.
And if I got something that needs a bit of extra attention I'd rather hit it after hours when I'm not getting clients or kids bothering me.
**** it, I'll even work an extra hour for you from time to time- sure beats 10 hours a week commuting.
Wife doing a little WFH, sleep in tomorrow, might cop a gobbie if I'm lucky. Imagine getting paid to roll your lover over... amazing! How is that a bad thing?
Happy employees are good employees right? I'm pretty happy at home.
 

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Working from home, good/bad?

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