Worst Coaches in AFL/VFL History

[TBoyleSuperstar]

Surely Peter Knights warrants a mention

I hate to say it but I think Richmond owns this thread:

Terry Wallace
Danny Frawley
Jeff Geischen
Robert Walls
Allen Jeans
Kevin Bartlett
Paul Sproule


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Richmond_Football_Club_coaches

Kinda harsh on Frawley. He at least got you to a prelim.

 

[LeverPuller]

Mark Neeld is right up there

 

[Alex_Kidd!]

Matthew Knights - Essendon

Danny Frawley - Richmond

Robert Shaw - Adelaide

Matthew Primus - Port Adelaide

Both Dean Bailey's and Mark Neeld's tenures at Melbourne were very forgettable.

 

[Damon_3388]

Only reason Fev loved him is because he gave him another chance. He was going to get axed by Brittain, so what Fev says means little about his actual coaching ability at Carlton.

I don't get why Pagan is so damned by his time at Carlton. He had nothing but success at both senior and reserves levels prior to going to the Blues, and even managed to drag a bunch of journeymen to 10 wins in 2004. Not really sure what more he was supposed to have done with the list and resources he had to work with there.

 

[banana_bus]

Kinda harsh on Frawley. He at least got you to a prelim.

At what cost?

 

[Donakebab]

Matthew Knights - Essendon - Made Finals

Danny Frawley - Richmond - Made a Prelim

Robert Shaw - Adelaide - Not sure how he got the Adelaide job after his time at Fitzroy

Matthew Primus - Port Adelaide - Yeah he bad.

Both Dean Bailey's and Mark Neeld's tenures at Melbourne were very forgettable. - Bailey had Melbourne turning around, moving him on for Neeld was a massive mistake.

 

[Thrawn]

I don't get why Pagan is so damned by his time at Carlton. He had nothing but success at both senior and reserves levels prior to going to the Blues, and even managed to drag a bunch of journeymen to 10 wins in 2004. Not really sure what more he was supposed to have done with the list and resources he had to work with there.

I'm reading every one of your posts with that avatar's voice now.

*shudder*

Anyway, you also have to remember he took us to two wooden spoons. You would have assumed after 2004 and a NAB cup win things would be better.

 

[Damon_3388]

I'm reading every one of your posts with that avatar's voice now.

*shudder*

Anyway, you also have to remember he took us to two wooden spoons. You would have assumed after 2004 and a NAB cup win things would be better.

Fair enough, but people seem to treat Pagan's time at Carlton with much greater gravity and importance than his success prior to coming to the Blues, as some sort of "proof" that he was never really that good a coach, and I don't really understand why. I mean, for example, nobody speaks about Ron Barassi's tenure as Melbourne coach between 1981-1985 (a five year period where the Dees won just 33 games) as though it overshadows his other great coaching feats. Barassi had a bit of high end talent to work with there too, including two players (Peter Moore and Brian Wilson) who won Brownlows during his time there, another future Brownlow Medallist in Gerard Healy, along with one of the most gifted players of his era, Robert Flower. I know Barassi is a more decorated and more revered figure than Pagan ever was, but if you just don't have the talent on your list to work with, you're not going to get very far, no matter who you are.

 

[00Stinger]

Mark Neeld

Take away the new teams (GWS & GC) he only beat one team, ever

/End thread

 

[Port 2004]

Reading Fevola's book and he has pretty high praise for Denis Pegan, who's coaching tenure at Carlton is widely considered one of the worst. Yes he won premierships with North, but he needed to realise that all clubs are in fact different, and can't be run under exactly the same doctrine. Got me thinking, who has an opinion on the worst coaches of all time?

Brenton Sanderson would get a birth.

 

[Slax]

Top 5:
1. Gary Buckenara - Sydney under him were just downright awful, single worst side I've ever seen.
2. Matthew Primus - Just incapable of getting a decent effort out of anyone, the fact Hinkley turned them around so fast shows that the talent was there to work with.
3. Tim Watson - had no idea what he was doing (has pretty much admitted that himself) and to make matters worse wanted to the players mate as well, which is never going to be a good mix.
4. Alex Jesaulenko - whilst he does have a Premiership to his name, his efforts at St Kilda and when he returned to Carlton get him on the list.
5. Mark Neeld - the fact that a coach who takes over a developing group and can't win as many games in two years as the bloke they sacked before him did in his final year takes a real lack of coaching skill.

Honorable mentions:
Bernie Quinlan - being able to lose the playing group so quickly really does take some effort, especially when you are a club legend.
Malcolm Blight, St Kilda - only came out of retirement after the offer of a $1m pay cheque and was never really interested. The fact that it was the cash that got him out of retirement made him avoid the top 5.
Peter Knights, Hawthorn - has less tactical knowledge about the game than most of the blokes he was coaching. I'm unwilling to hold the Bears year against him because the way they were set up, no-one was going to do much with them in the early years.
Damian Drum - can a Fremantle support please advise what his actual game plan was because I'm pretty sure most of the players didn't know either.

All St Kilda coaches between Allan Jeans and Ken Sheldon (1977-1989). In this period St Kilda had a winning percentage rate of 23%, no coach had more than 31%. Jesaulenko has a mention but the rest weren't much better at controlling the party boys.

 

[Bacon Warrior]

Matthew Knights - Essendon

Danny Frawley - Richmond

Robert Shaw - Adelaide

Matthew Primus - Port Adelaide

Both Dean Bailey's and Mark Neeld's tenures at Melbourne were very forgettable.

Harsh on Bailey. Melbourne were just starting to find their feet with him at the helm until 186. Should never have been sacked.

 

[Tippett2Goal]

Mark Neeld

Take away the new teams (GWS & GC) he only beat one team, ever

/End thread

You obviously never saw Buckenara

 

[Demonheart]

Nathan Buckley

But seriously Tim Watson would have to be up there

Tim 'dark and murky places' Watson.

He just wasn't cut out for the top job, comes across as a great bloke on the radio though.

Notable mentions to Mark Neeld and James Hird, however if infractions are delivered then he would go to top of the list.

 

[imperial_oz]

In his favour, the Dockers were going through a horrible time and had a list that would worry anyone, but Drum's tenure was far from memorable.

Dispute this bit.

It was very memorable! Horribly so!

 

[Damon_3388]

Robert Shaw - Adelaide - Not sure how he got the Adelaide job after his time at Fitzroy

Shaw actually had Fitzroy going in the right direction in 1992-1993, with a good mix of experience and youth, but then they lost their leading goal from the yeaer before two off-seasons in a row (Richard Osbourne went to Sydney in 1993, and Alastair Lynch went to Brisbane in 1994), and suddenly had nobody to kick a score for them in 1994. I think the thinking was that Shaw would take a similarly mixed (but more talented) group in Adelaide in the right direction, and there was a lot of "we need a Victorian coach to help us win in Melbourne" mindset in Adelaide at the time too, and he was the only person with some sort of pedigree on offer. Obviously didn't work out (and the immediate success of Malcolm Blight's reign in Adelaide colours the Shaw years even more darkly), but it wasn't the most terrible idea in theory.

 

[Eldou]

Mark Neeld

Seriously he lost the players before he even turned up at the club. How is that possible. I thought they would sack him in the first year. They didn't.

Then after the first game of the second year we got pantsed. I couldn't believe he got to coach after that.

Most of the blame goes the Melbourne hierarchy. They really stuffed with the Schwab, Connolly, Lyon and Stynes (sacrilegious I know) boys club

It got to the point where I just hated the MFC

Glad we are the up now with some hope

 

[McOrist]

Murray Weideman coached the 'Pies to their first wooden spoon in 1976. Next season Tom Hafey comes in with the same list and we finish up minor premiers and draw the Grannie.

 

[Freomaniac]

Damien Drum and Chris Connelly would dead heat.

you wish honey....

Connolly got freo to 5th in 2003 with an elimination final loss and in 2006 to a prelim.

As crap as Damian Drum at freo from 1999-mid 2001 was, He will never ever be the Worst Coach in AFL history...

1999: 5 wins, 17 losses and 15th spot yet secured Paul Hasleby, Matthew Pavlich and Leigh Brown in that Draft.
2000: 8 wins, 14 losses and 12th spot.
2001: 0 wins 9 losses

overall 13 wins and 40 losses.

Only other coaches worse than Drum are Peter Rhodes 2 seasons of 8 wins and 36 losses in 2003-4 and Mark Neelds 5 wins and 28 losses from 2012-2013.

 

[Freomaniac]

Top 5:
1. Gary Buckenara - Sydney under him were just downright awful, single worst side I've ever seen.
2. Matthew Primus - Just incapable of getting a decent effort out of anyone, the fact Hinkley turned them around so fast shows that the talent was there to work with.
3. Tim Watson - had no idea what he was doing (has pretty much admitted that himself) and to make matters worse wanted to the players mate as well, which is never going to be a good mix.
4. Alex Jesaulenko - whilst he does have a Premiership to his name, his efforts at St Kilda and when he returned to Carlton get him on the list.
5. Mark Neeld - the fact that a coach who takes over a developing group and can't win as many games in two years as the bloke they sacked before him did in his final year takes a real lack of coaching skill.

Honorable mentions:
Bernie Quinlan - being able to lose the playing group so quickly really does take some effort, especially when you are a club legend.
Malcolm Blight, St Kilda - only came out of retirement after the offer of a $1m pay cheque and was never really interested. The fact that it was the cash that got him out of retirement made him avoid the top 5.
Peter Knights, Hawthorn - has less tactical knowledge about the game than most of the blokes he was coaching. I'm unwilling to hold the Bears year against him because the way they were set up, no-one was going to do much with them in the early years.
Damian Drum - can a Fremantle support please advise what his actual game plan was because I'm pretty sure most of the players didn't know either.

All St Kilda coaches between Allan Jeans and Ken Sheldon (1977-1989). In this period St Kilda had a winning percentage rate of 23%, no coach had more than 31%. Jesaulenko has a mention but the rest weren't much better at controlling the party boys.

Good Question all I can say is this... In 1999 Freos leading Goal Kicker was Tony Modra with 71 goals with 10 vs the demons. In 2000, Both Modra and Clive Waterhouse kicked 50 goals each. That should answer your question.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Grant Thomas
Peter Knights

 

[tonk]

Col Kinnear
Gary Buckenara
Tim Watson

 

[Blueyboy74]

My top 10 off the top of my head:

Mark Neeld
Peter Rohde
Matty Primus
Jeff Gieschen
Bernie Quinlan
Ken Judge
Gary Buckenara
Peter Knights
Damien Drum
Francis Bourke

 

[Alex_Kidd!]

Harsh on Bailey. Melbourne were just starting to find their feet with him at the helm until 186. Should never have been sacked.

Totally agree but we aren't talking about what could have been, we are talking about how it was.

No doubt he was on the way to turning Melbourne around which is why it was a forgettable tenure rather than a terrible one.

 

[Alex_Kidd!]

Donakebab - Sorry mate, i can't bloody quote your post

Good points on Knights and Frawley.

With Knights, making finals in his first season was a good success but winning 7 games in his second season in charge was the reason I put him in there. That was the time he had the chance to establish himself as a coach and in his defence he didn't get much of a chance too. Did you guys think he would have done well if he had not been sacked?

As for Frawley, one prelim in a 4 year tenure isn't exactly a legendary coaching career. In his defence, he was coaching Richmond

Again as for Bailey, as i said to Bacon Warrior, we are talking about his time at Melbourne and not what could have been if he stayed. Yes he was on his way to turning the club around and thats why i said he tenure was forgettable rather than terrible.