VFL Future direction - SANFL / AFL Reserves / PBs

The future of the Port Adelaide AFL reserves

  • Remain in SANFL as is - tradition is important

    Votes: 18 7.9%

  • Play in an AFL reserves comp against AFL teams - games at Alberton, wear PB's and be called magpies

    Votes: 83 36.4%

  • Play in an AFL reserves comp - no games at Alberton, still wear the PB's and be called the Magpies

    Votes: 1 0.4%

  • Play in an AFL reserves comp - games at Alberton but nicknamed the Power and wearing the BiB strip

    Votes: 29 12.7%

  • Play in an AFL reserves comp - not fussed about where we play - nicknamed Power with BiB guernsey

    Votes: 23 10.1%

  • Play in an AFL reserves comp against AFL teams - games at Alberton, PB's at home, BiB away, Power

    Votes: 74 32.5%
  • Total voters
    228

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Andre said:
LOL Norwood. Where are they getting fans from? Most of their 2000 odd members are the remaining fans from mid-90's sticking with them, when their proposal with Sturt for the second license failed to get up, or their kids/grandkids they've bought memberships for. Most of them long since have abandoned them for Adelaide or Port (more of the former obviously). If Norwood got in tomorrow 95%+ of them aren't going back.

As have said in the past, if for some reason the AFL had a brain aneurism and admitted them it'd have minimal affect on Port. It'd hurt Adelaide though, as Norwood's only chance to get fans would be to pitch themselves as something the state doesn't currently (officially) have. That's a team for the 'big end of town'. Now we all know behind closed doors Adelaide (the club) hold their noses when having to deal with the likes of Shazza and Dazza from Elizabeth and Christies Downs, but do that with the 'team for all South Aussies' marketing bullshit, to get their dollars. There are though enough Adelaide fans from 'better suburbs' who'd take to having their egos stroked, that there's a team for them and others of the 'right sort' without the filth they currently have to sit with. This would be a real dilemma for Adelaide. Do they stick with 'TFASA' and risk their most profitable members (and sponsors) shifting or drop the facade and admit they don't give a s**t about Shazza and Dazza and more clearly aim high end? And risk losing those customers/dollars? For Port - club and fans - it'd be break out the popcorn time whichever way it went.

It's a s**t idea though. 18 teams is too much as it is. 16 is the right number. 2 SA, 2 WA, 2 QLD, 2 NSW, Tasmania, plus 7 from Victoria. Victoria would still have the most sides, but numbers reflecting their population, as a strong Aussie Rules state. Get rid of three from North, Saints, Bulldogs and Melbourne. 16 teams and you could extend the season to 30 rounds, allowing everyone to play everyone home and away. We'd get the draw not so compromised, we'd get the interests of the game above the interests of Victoria and we'd a higher standard of competition from the talent not spread so thin. Of course, the point that the interests of the game above the interests of Victoria ensures it's not happening. Which IMO, is why we also are unlikely to go to 20 teams in the next 20 years. That'd put it as the Vics no longer in the majority, which is too risky for them. Too close to then 10 sides not propping up a Vic side in need down the track and then they are suddenly not in the majority and it turns into an actual AFL rather than VFL.
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Norwood with a decent clubrooms on the Parade would be instantly more attractive to new members than Adlelaide.

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We need less teams in the AFL, not more. I get why the AFL wants more teams ($$$), but the playing talent is spread too thin as it is. There are too many players being drafted who have no business being on an AFL list.

Even with the justification of dollars though, there’s no financial case for Norwood to enter the AFL. They lack the supporter base, and at best all they would do is take away some supporters from the Crows. They aren’t going to bring in a fresh membership base of 50,000 plus.
 

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I think the balance is out now as it is, it's in no man's land. I don't think more teams would actually make it worse but possibly make it better again. More players, lower the overall standard of players, spread the talent thinner, the top end talent looks even better. Maybe forwards still kicking goals again. Maybe matchups become a thing again as team defence becomes less effective.

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davo999 said:
Wow . I didn’t blame the club for wanting out . How can our young players develop properly when they have B graders as the supposed experienced players , most if not all of our top up players wouldn’t get a game with our opponents , how are they supposed to lead the way for our young players .
All we can do is scrap to avert a blowout.
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Sorry to intrude and I can’t comment on last nights game as I’m still in Melbourne but I do agree it’s really hard in the SANFL when your top ups are of a poor quality.
I’m not sure the move to the VFL will fix that though as I know someone involved in Essendon’s VFL program and went along yesterday and must say they suffer from the same issue and worse as the VFL salary cap is worse than the SANFL too.
The mail he had from the club is that a proper reserves comp is at least 3-4 years away minimum and the top up players we had are deadset D graders too so I struggle to see how our kids are developing in the VFL. Port might be at a even more disadvantage in the VFL as top ups are not only paid less but for games interstate they would need to take extra time off work and away from family to be paid a couple hundred bucks.
The national reserves comp is the only way forward but it’s unfortunate that it’s low on the AFL priority list
 
Great8 said:
Sorry to intrude and I can’t comment on last nights game as I’m still in Melbourne but I do agree it’s really hard in the SANFL when your top ups are of a poor quality.
I’m not sure the move to the VFL will fix that though as I know someone involved in Essendon’s VFL program and went along yesterday and must say they suffer from the same issue and worse as the VFL salary cap is worse than the SANFL too.
The mail he had from the club is that a proper reserves comp is at least 3-4 years away minimum and the top up players we had are deadset D graders too so I struggle to see how our kids are developing in the VFL. Port might be at a even more disadvantage in the VFL as top ups are not only paid less but for games interstate they would need to take extra time off work and away from family to be paid a couple hundred bucks.
The national reserves comp is the only way forward but it’s unfortunate that it’s low on the AFL priority list
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How well is the VFL Salary Cap policed??

The way around the cap at SANFL level, I believe and I have written on here over the last half a dozen years, is organising well paid jobs with sponsors/partners/coterie group members to get really good players who are prepared to play footy for $500 a game by the books.

Now I'm not talking about someone who is getting paid $60k in their current job, getting paid $250k or paying their wife $100k for doing bugger all by a sponsors/partners/coterie group members, but maybe paying them $80k or $90k or $100k, some fringe benefits thrown in, like a car, or housing benefits, giving them a promotion to a higher level than their current job, that they would never get at their current employer etc.

Around education and training help out with that, pay their annual HECS bill and or their HECS debt, pay for training to up skill trade skills with courses, seminars etc.

The Gowan brothers I know benefited from this at centrals. The brown paper bags were always mentioned by fans of other clubs and they might have got a bit of that, but as qualified builders I know they got some work from sponsors/partners/coterie group members and they might have been able to charge above market rates.
 
RussellEbertHandball said:
How well is the VFL Salary Cap policed??

The way around the cap at SANFL level, I believe and I have written on here over the last half a dozen years, is organising well paid jobs with sponsors/partners/coterie group members to get really good players who are prepared to play footy for $500 a game by the books.

Now I'm not talking about someone who is getting paid $60k in their current job, getting paid $250k or paying their wife $100k for doing bugger all by a sponsors/partners/coterie group members, but maybe paying them $80k or $90k or $100k, some fringe benefits thrown in, like a car, or housing benefits, giving them a promotion to a higher level than their current job, that they would never get at their current employer etc.

Around education and training help out with that, pay their annual HECS bill and or their HECS debt, pay for training to up skill trade skills with courses, seminars etc.

The Gowan brothers I know benefited from this at centrals. The brown paper bags were always mentioned by fans of other clubs and they might have got a bit of that, but as qualified builders I know they got some work from sponsors/partners/coterie group members and they might have been able to charge above market rates.
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Policed very stringently.
It’s part reason why we see several VFL players come over to the SANFL. I chatted with one at a Norwood function recently and he was amazed a how much the SANFL clubs help with relocating and finding employment. He said that just doesn’t really happen in the VFL and the pay is better here plus it’s recognised as a better comp and more chance of being drafted in the MSD if they come here. He also mentioned that he is mates with top up players at other VFL clubs and some are on $100 per game. The standalone VFL clubs get a higher cap same as the SANFL
 
Great8 said:
Policed very stringently.
It’s part reason why we see several VFL players come over to the SANFL. I chatted with one at a Norwood function recently and he was amazed a how much the SANFL clubs help with relocating and finding employment. He said that just doesn’t really happen in the VFL and the pay is better here plus it’s recognised as a better comp and more chance of being drafted in the MSD if they come here. He also mentioned that he is mates with top up players at other VFL clubs and some are on $100 per game. The standalone VFL clubs get a higher cap same as the SANFL
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$100 a game.... Might as well go play country football and get paid more.
 
Great8 said:
I’m not sure the move to the VFL will fix that though as I know someone involved in Essendon’s VFL program and went along yesterday and must say they suffer from the same issue
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We would face 14 other clubs with a similar issue, instead of 1.
 
Great8 said:
Policed very stringently.
It’s part reason why we see several VFL players come over to the SANFL. I chatted with one at a Norwood function recently and he was amazed a how much the SANFL clubs help with relocating and finding employment. He said that just doesn’t really happen in the VFL and the pay is better here plus it’s recognised as a better comp and more chance of being drafted in the MSD if they come here. He also mentioned that he is mates with top up players at other VFL clubs and some are on $100 per game. The standalone VFL clubs get a higher cap same as the SANFL
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Re the money bit, I can't think of the bloke's name but back in the late 1970's an Essendon player came here to play for West Torrens and I can recall in an interview he said it was because the sanfl club had offered him a fair bit more than he was getting at the bombers.

He was a fair haired 5' 11ish half forward cum midfielder type who had a couple of good years here before going back to a different VFL club, and then from memory played state footy for the Vics.
 

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Buget said:
The Freo piece was new (unless I missed that).

The fact it is back in the news means that there is movement and it seems somewhat positive.
.
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Freo said they were happy with Peel Thunder set up, 5 or 6 weeks ago when WCE said they were keen to go in to VFL in 2025, but had to give a definitive answer to WAFC in May.
 
RussellEbertHandball said:
Freo said they were happy with Peel Thunder set up, 5 or 6 weeks ago when WCE said they were keen to go in to VFL in 2025, but had to give a definitive answer to WAFC in May.
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Complete overhaul of the football department and the structure of the sanfl side, how could any footballer develop under the current circumstances. PAFC in Sanfl is complete joke. The lack of development of drafted players has been a sorry saga for most of PAFC time in the AFL. Hope dwindles to the point of resignation that nothing changes and nothing will.
 
Just thinking, is there any point having a finals series in a national reserves league? The top team should be the premier and then the reserves team of the AFL finalists play as curtain raisers, regardless of the reserve team results, to give game time to the players in contention for a spot. Removes the potential for injury to players of AFL teams not in the finals.
 
If the VFL have a tightly controlled low salary cap, and any AFL reserves comp also has a small tightly controlled salary cap, then we aren't going to achieve much in those comps.

Only thing is that an AFL reserves comp means we are all on a more level playing field.
 
RussellEbertHandball said:
If the VFL have a tightly controlled low salary cap, and any AFL reserves comp also has a small tightly controlled salary cap, then we aren't going to achieve much in those comps.

Only thing is that an AFL reserves comp means we are all on a more level playing field.
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Agreed REH, and as much as most of us don't want to admit it the sanfl is still a fairly strong comp particularly for skinny 18 year olds taken late in the draft and are forced to play against 25 yo men who are often taller and much more developed physically.

Another example of a player being thrown in at the deep end is Walsh, who although already a decent size has had to come straight from an underage wafl comp to playing a key position in a much stronger competition without getting much if any support from having mature players around him.
Re that lack of support why eg is a 100 game defender in Tom Clurey being wasted on a wing when common sense suggests he would be of better use as the general in defence to help the development of the younger blokes, it's not rocket science.

Back to the Afl ressies bit, depending on the restrictions for top up players it may be no stronger than the current Vfl comp, but at the least it should be a level playing field for all clubs.
 
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