News Pick trade - future first for 23 and future second
- Thread starter Ford Fairlane
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- Aug 15, 2015
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I Dont Care
Nothing Matters
I can see tarps in our future
- Mar 26, 2007
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The Freo trade is already official. They wouldn't allow the trade if we didn't already somehow have that dispensation.
Unless there's some weird new rule. They can't force you trade in the future to get back into the first round. They have always in the past just stopped the initial trade which put us in breach of the rules.
- Apr 10, 2014
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Let’s just say that I genuinely hope that Shane Edwards steps barefoot on a LEGO
Did we seriously trade next years first for this years pick 23….I’ve never heard of a club self sabotaging as much as that. We just r*ped ourselveswe just did
The rule, is that to be allowed to trade a future first, you have to have used at least 2 1st round pick in a 4 year period.
So this trade period the years of interest are: 2020, 2021, 2022 and this trade period 2023.
We took Lachie Jones with pick 16 in 2020 and Josh Sinn with pick 12 in 2021. Therefore in 2023 we can trade a future first because we have two first round picks in the last 4 years.
Next trade period, in 2024 we won't be able to trade a future pick. We'll have 2021 (Josh Sinn), 2022, no one, 2023 no one and 2024 no pick. So only the one pick in the last 4 years means we won't be able to trade a future first.
RussellEbertHandball
Flick pass expert
The rule isn't proactive as far as I can tell but applies in the relevant year ie we have to trade in a 1st round this year or next year.
As per the great Faqs Rules Regulations and Resources for Player Movements in the AFL thread info and links on the Drafts trading and Free Agency board, the relevant year is the current trade period.
The current trade period we only have back to back traded away 1st round picks, we haven't in the current period had 3 in a row. We have to get one in 2024.
Resource - FAQs: Rules, Regulations and Resources for Player Movements in the AFL
List sizes Club age and height profiles Salary cap information Trading rules including salary dumps Father/son & academy draft bids Free agency compensation formula & more
www.bigfooty.com
Future Pick Trading
Trading of future picks is further restricted by a Determination on Future Pick Trading from the AFL General Counsel. While we do not have access to this document, media reports suggest that there are two main components to these rules:
- Clubs may not trade out all of their picks in the following year’s draft. They may either trade out of the first round, or trade out of the subsequent rounds. If they trade back into the first round, they will again be allowed to trade picks from the subsequent rounds of the draft.
- Clubs must use two first round picks in the four national drafts prior to the current trade period. The penalty for not doing this is a ban on trading out any first round picks, unless another one is traded back in first.
The rules don't require you to protect the next trade period. Can we trade a future first now? Yes, because Lachie Jones and Josh Sinn were both drafted as 1st round picks in the last 4 seasons. Next year we can't trade a future first, because we no longer fit the ruling.
We don't have to get one. We only need one if we want to trade a future first next season. Except if we don't, we also won't be able to trade a future first in 2025 either, because the Josh Sinn selection will fall out of the 4 year qualifying period.
- Jan 20, 2015
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Was the pick 22 we traded in from freo, that came as a priority pick from north technically and end of first or start of second in the wording when it was allocated? Does an end of first priority pick satisfy the rule?
jdeezy
Premiership Player
- Jul 6, 2013
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Start of second, I believe it is actually the pick after North's 2nd rounder.
I think realistically we could argue that given we used the future first last year to get a one year removed first round pick, that it should count. The AFL bends the rules all the time on various things. But hopefully we don't, because I don't want us throwing around another first round pick next year to save Hinkley yet again.
I pray for this. Burn it down and start again. Getting back to 2012 seems to be the only way for the club to improve.
I hope we use 22 or whatever it will become in the draft.
- Sep 29, 2012
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Nah apparently the Ratugolea deal is close to being done according to Scott Lucas (Rats management) we've blown that pick.
The next few years really, as well be going 3 years without a first in a row. So we'll need to take one in 2025 and 2026 (if we don't trade one in next year) to be able to trade a future first again from 2027?
Feels like we're really maxing out the credit card and dealing with it later, only to still win 0 finals.
- Mar 26, 2007
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Yeah, no disputing the rule exists and we are in breach.The rule isn't proactive as far as I can tell but applies in the relevant year ie we have to trade in a 1st round this year or next year.
As per the great Faqs Rules Regulations and Resources for Player Movements in the AFL thread info and links on the Drafts trading and Free Agency board, the relevant year is the current trade period.
The current trade period we only have back to back traded away 1st round picks, we haven't in the current period had 3 in a row. We have to get one in 2024.
Resource - FAQs: Rules, Regulations and Resources for Player Movements in the AFL
List sizes Club age and height profiles Salary cap information Trading rules including salary dumps Father/son & academy draft bids Free agency compensation formula & more
Future Pick Trading
Trading of future picks is further restricted by a Determination on Future Pick Trading from the AFL General Counsel. While we do not have access to this document, media reports suggest that there are two main components to these rules:
Discussion here
- Clubs may not trade out all of their picks in the following year’s draft. They may either trade out of the first round, or trade out of the subsequent rounds. If they trade back into the first round, they will again be allowed to trade picks from the subsequent rounds of the draft.
- Clubs must use two first round picks in the four national drafts prior to the current trade period. The penalty for not doing this is a ban on trading out any first round picks, unless another one is traded back in first.
What I'm saying is that in the past the AFL have blocked these trades that put you into breach before it occurs.
I mean if they've approved the trade, they can't now force us to trade back in. They can't say, "oh Port you traded out your future first, we let it happen, and now this year we need you to trade out a player so that you can get a first back in".
They wouldn't do that, nor is there any rule about a penalty for being in breach, it is just that the AFL have typically rejected the trades in the past.
We must've gotten a JHF related exemption already you'd think.
Launchpad McQuack
Internet fact checker.
- Jul 6, 2011
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Out to 24 now with McKay compensation.
- Apr 1, 2009
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This deal is an absolute shocker. Everything has to go right (Port top 4-5 again, Freo bottom 8 again-- both odds on not to happen) just to break even. And comes with the risk of pissing away a top 10 pick for no apparent reason other than to indulge Geelong's insane demands for Esava.
- Aug 22, 2009
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All for Kenny’s latest missing link
Janus
Advocatus Diaboli
- Sep 9, 2007
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Jones counts as a first round pick.The rule isn't proactive as far as I can tell but applies in the relevant year ie we have to trade in a 1st round this year or next year.
As per the great Faqs Rules Regulations and Resources for Player Movements in the AFL thread info and links on the Drafts trading and Free Agency board, the relevant year is the current trade period.
The current trade period we only have back to back traded away 1st round picks, we haven't in the current period had 3 in a row. We have to get one in 2024.
Resource - FAQs: Rules, Regulations and Resources for Player Movements in the AFL
List sizes Club age and height profiles Salary cap information Trading rules including salary dumps Father/son & academy draft bids Free agency compensation formula & more
Future Pick Trading
Trading of future picks is further restricted by a Determination on Future Pick Trading from the AFL General Counsel. While we do not have access to this document, media reports suggest that there are two main components to these rules:
Discussion here
- Clubs may not trade out all of their picks in the following year’s draft. They may either trade out of the first round, or trade out of the subsequent rounds. If they trade back into the first round, they will again be allowed to trade picks from the subsequent rounds of the draft.
- Clubs must use two first round picks in the four national drafts prior to the current trade period. The penalty for not doing this is a ban on trading out any first round picks, unless another one is traded back in first.
2019 - Bergman and Georgiades
2020 - Jones
2021 - Sinn
2022 - traded to West Coast for Horne-Francis
2023 - traded to North Melbourne for Horne-Francis
2024 - traded to Fremantle
Even in the 2024 trade period we would still meet the criteria for two first round picks in the four national drafts prior to the current trade period.
RussellEbertHandball
Flick pass expert
No. As Duckimus Prime correctly pointed out we haven't breached any rule and we can still trade away 2024 F1 in 2023. We can't trade 2025 F1 in 2024, unless we get another 2024 1st Rd pick in before trading away 2025 F1.
In the FAQs thread on the draft and trading board that I linked previously they said no one has seen the rules but they linked a discussion that started with an AFL website article that explained why Geelong couldn't trade away future picks in 2019 trade period.
First-round pick rule: How is your club placed?
Geelong is unable to trade its first draft pick unless it acquires another first-round selection
www.afl.com.au
Sep 1, 2019, 3:40pm
GEELONG won't be able to offer a first-round draft pick from this year or next to potentially secure Shaun Higgins or Jack Steven unless it can trade another one in beforehand.
The Cats are the only club in the competition that must use its 2019 first-round selection, with the AFL's rule on trading first-round picks kicking in this year.
They also can't trade their top 2020 choice in this year's NAB AFL Trade Period, because they used just one first-round selection in the past four drafts from 2015 to 2018.
The Cats are the only club in the competition that must use its 2019 first-round selection, with the AFL's rule on trading first-round picks kicking in this year.
The exception to that is where a club has applied for and received special permission, with the AFL weighing up the age of the players brought in and other draft picks used in that time.
However, Geelong is unlikely to have a strong case in that scenario, because it traded for older players such as Zach Tuohy (who was almost 27), Lachie Henderson (almost 26) and then-25-year-old Patrick Dangerfield.
Tim Kelly's decision on his future will have a major say on the Cats' situation.
If Kelly is to go, Geelong would need that deal to be completed before acquiring North Melbourne's Higgins or St Kilda's Steven, assuming their current teams demand a first-round pick be part of any transaction. Both Higgins and Steven have been linked with a move to the Cattery despite each having one more season to run on their contracts.
Every other club has met the four-year requirement of using at least two selections, including Collingwood, Hawthorn, Melbourne and West Coast, which all managed the bare minimum.
The Hawks and Demons would go into deficit for 2020 if they also trade their first-round picks this year – without adding another – with their two selections from 2015 dropping off for next year's Trade Period.
Neither club has drafted in the first round since.
Essendon will be in the same situation next year unless it can trade in an extra one, because it sent its 2018 and 2019 first-round picks to Greater Western Sydney as part of the Dylan Shiel swap.
The Bombers' two first-round selections in 2015 will also drop off the rolling four-year mandate.They would be the last clubs to ever be in deficit now that the rule starts this year, and would need to keep using their first-round picks until they again reached the minimum requirement.
So to sum up above ie Geelong in 2019 vs Port in 2023
| Geelong | 2015 | 2016 | 2017 | 2018 | 2019 |
| 1st Rd | Traded out 9 in 2015 | Trade out F1 2016 in | Trade out F1 2017 in | Pick 15 | Can't trade away F1 2020 unless get 1st Rd for Kelly. Got 14 + 24 + |
| picks | for Dangerfield | 2015 for Henderson | 2016 for Tuohy | Jordan Clarke | 2020 F1 WCE and used 14 it became 16 and used original 16 it became 19 |
| Port | 2020 | 2021 | 2022 | 2023 | 2024 |
| 1st Rd | Matching Bid pick 16 | Pick 12 Josh Sinn | Trade out pick 8 in | Trade out F1 2023 in | No worries trading out F1 2024 to Freo in 2023 |
| picks | Jones with 38+42 | 2022 for Horne-Francis | 2022 for Horne-Francis | for Pick 22 + Freo's F2 2024 |
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