Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today.... part 2

Reminder: This isn't the Israel/Hamas thread. Go to the Israel/Hamas thread if you want to talk about that. Thanks.

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

Part I: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack.1371828/page-47#post-81443295 Thread Rules: Alright. I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have...
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Thread rules update:
Gethelred said:
From this point if you're going to make a connection between Islam and the crime rate, you need to demonstrate causation in your post. If you do not, I'm going to infract you for the inherent racism in the position you're taking.
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sr36 said:
You haven't made one single valid argument to support your claim. Too lazy to even read and repeat the reams of critiques bemoaning the impact of Islam, as there are about all religions. Mind made up without any knowledge.
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I’m honestly still wondering what your overall argument is. You just make some spurious argument, it falls flat, and you provide another 200 word spiel on how I’m prejudiced.

Like just now. I’ve pointed out that the world is full of global conflict, but you don’t get people who have sympathy for involved nations acting out in the same way; it’s fairly unique to Islam to be so intense about wars in continents they have never so much as visited. And all you can do is come back with this crap about how I’m basically a Nazi.
 
ElectricG said:
Like just now. I’ve pointed out that the world is full of global conflict, but you don’t get people who have sympathy for involved nations acting out in the same way; it’s fairly unique to Islam to be so intense about wars in continents they have never so much as visited. And all you can do is come back with this crap about how I’m basically a Nazi.
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My overall argument is that you just make the same bigoted prejudice comments over and over again. And you have nothing to support it except here's an anecdote about an individual or a group.

Do a search. There's heaps of evidence of Israeli far right groups marching and chanting death to Arabs. People from Christian communities on other continents spewing murderous bile about both Muslims and Jews. Muslims and Jews on other continents spewing murderous bile.

And then ask yourself why you're claiming it is unique to Islam.



If you think the Tommy Robinson led sort of shit couldn't grow in Australia, with voices like yours contributing to it, then you're kidding yourself. Or perhaps your hoping it does.



P.S. The multiple stabbing referred to at the beginning of the report was done by a UK born Christian youth with a Somalian background and mental health issues. But the anti-Muslim riots occurred because Robinsons group spread a fictitious account of the perpetrator being a Muslim terrorist, complete with a name and a background dossier.

And of course the riots werent just directed towards the police and Muslim businesses - anyone with brown skin in the vicinity copped it - so Sikh and Hindu businesses were also attacked. The Western movement that your voice is a part of is not just Islamophobic. It's blatantly racist as well. And notice the Hitler salutes in the crowds too. It's a Western Christian Nationalist white supremacist movement that you're aligning yourself with and it's growing. It's basically the same movement that swept across the Western world in the 30s before the Nazis made it unfashionable. But let's pretend that only Islamic culture has given birth to shithouse movements.
 
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ElectricG said:
I never said anything remotely like that.
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No you didn't. You just blame the entirety of Islam for shit movements that have come out of the Islamic world. Do you do the same with the Western or Christian world regarding our shit movements? You pretty clearly don't and neither should you. Heaps of individuals and organisations and churches stand against such hateful movements, as do heaps of individuals, organisations and Imams in the Islamic world regarding their hateful movements. Enormous numbers of Muslims have been murdered for standing against horrendous Islamic movements - but you're blaming the way they thought as well.

Rather than standing against hateful movements, like enormous numbers of Muslims have died for, you're adding your voice to a hateful Western movement.

So apologies if you think it's too difficult to be more specific than Islam is bad, and expecting you to have some knowledge to support such an enormous generalisations, but you're spitting on the graves of those Muslims who've given their life trying to stop the movements you want stopped as well as well over a billion Muslims who are ideologically opposed to them, many who will give their lives in the future.
 
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sr36 said:
No you didn't. You just blame the entirety of Islam for shit movements that have come out of the Islamic world. Do you do the same with the Western or Christian world regarding our shit movements? You pretty clearly don't and neither should you. Heaps of individuals and organisations and churches stand against such hateful movements, as do heaps of individuals, organisations and Imams in the Islamic world regarding their hateful movements. Enormous numbers of Muslims have been murdered for standing against horrendous Islamic movements - but you're blaming the way they thought as well.

Rather than standing against hateful movements, like enormous numbers of Muslims have died for, you're adding your voice to a hateful Western movement.

So apologies if you think it's too difficult to be more specific than Islam is bad, and expecting you to have some knowledge to support such an enormous generalisations, but you're spitting on the graves of those Muslims who've given their life trying to stop the movements you want stopped as well as well over a billion Muslims who are ideologically opposed to them, many who will give their lives in the future.
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Christianity has long been with us in the west, and they get to argue that they are part of the reason that western countries are the ones that people want to live in. That said, there is clearly a Christian component to the fact that the most powerful country in the world is now a basket case. If someone said if not for Christianity then we wouldn’t have trump, how can I argue with that?

I could say that their values should lead them to want someone with such a low character anywhere the White House and this is just a movement independent of their religion. But I can’t. He simply wouldn’t be there without the Christian vote, and the fact that he’s there is making the world worse. And sure, some stand against him. But it’s either not enough of completely unconvincing. You can call Christianity a dumpster fire for all I care.


Don’t get me wrong - I think Islam is worse. You just won’t get the same mealy mouthed excuse making out of me when you are making a true statement.
 
Carringbush2010 said:
No we don't.

Everyone needs to calm the farm on this 'taking sides bs'. This forum and discussion is NOT a reflection of real world society.

Anyone with a modicum of integrity would condemn islamophobia AND anti semitism or any hatred. That would be the overwhelming majority of our society.

If one has a belief that everyone has 'picked a side' because 'tribalism' is an idiot, this is not a football game. Anyone who does buy into the 'tribalism' is a naive and gullible moron.
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We do tend to be seeing more of this philosophy fueled by social media.
As an Australian i tend to observe US politics, i can't affect it, but it can affect me in a roundabout way. But i can't understand how people in Australia become staunchly "Trump" or "Anti-trump " ( never any middle ground ).
Every issue is either for or against. Never any middle ground.
 
sr36 said:
I was being obtuse. You misunderstood.

I was criticising the nationalist voices that are critical of talking about both Antisemitism and Islamophobia together. Even though the same conflict has caused an increase in both and leaders in both of those Australian communities regularly speak out against both of them together. Apparently that's bad according to Dutton and much of the media.
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The reason the minuscule number of nationalist types get media attention is because it raises click bait > revenue.

The reason spud head speaks in this tone is because he has an ideological agenda, the medias agenda is revenue driven, there is a distinct difference.

So this nationalist tone is not the 'Aussie way'
 
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ElectricG said:
Christianity has long been with us in the west, and they get to argue that they are part of the reason that western countries are the ones that people want to live in. That said, there is clearly a Christian component to the fact that the most powerful country in the world is now a basket case. If someone said if not for Christianity then we wouldn’t have trump, how can I argue with that?

I could say that their values should lead them to want someone with such a low character anywhere the White House and this is just a movement independent of their religion. But I can’t. He simply wouldn’t be there without the Christian vote, and the fact that he’s there is making the world worse. And sure, some stand against him. But it’s either not enough of completely unconvincing. You can call Christianity a dumpster fire for all I care.


Don’t get me wrong - I think Islam is worse. You just won’t get the same mealy mouthed excuse making out of me when you are making a true statement.
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I'm not religious, but I struggle to understand how you can view these belief systems/philosophies or whatever you want to call them that have love, faith, hope, humility, compassion, integrity, charity, forgivenessm and acceptance as their core values as dumpster fires or even worse in your opinion in the case of Islam. Even though they have dumpster fire branches that have sprung up.

I know you think it's just deflection but go back and read what a poster wrote about Wahabbism - the same has occurred with Christianity. What people call "literal" interpretations of scripture.

With the growth of literacy - heaps of people think they can read and have a really good understanding of religious scripture written 1500 or 2000 years ago or longer. But language changes over time and thus they can't have a deep understanding of what was meant at the time without years/decades of study and looking at other texts. But sects have popped up without that scholarly grounding to understand what was meant. Modern readings with interpretation divorced from intended or agreed upon meaning, without reference to a world of supporting literature, without knowledge of the idioms or vocabulry differences of the time, with assumptions that nothing is metaphor and with the readers biases thrown in - because we read with bias - have become taught in some sects. And because people think they can read ancient texts with good comprehension it's easier to pull people away from the more scholarly sects that stilll preach wonderful values - despite sometimes getting caught up in corruption or scandals - like most big organisations run by people do.

These sects with more modern interpretations can be really dodgy and in terms of Christianity have become quite significant in the US and are growing in Australia and in terms of Sunni Islam - Wahabbism is one and is a massive threat to global security. But they are still a small percentage of the Christian and Islamic world and their teaching is often radically opposed to the majority of the Christian or Islamic world that they sprung up from. So using these sects to cast aspersions against all sects is really dodgy.

Islamic scripture is easier to weaponise if the interpreter is that way inclined, as it advocates for the use of force as self defence. And then you've got the word "jihad" - which we in the West think means holy war - but really is more similar to struggle - can be an internal struggle, a non-violent struggle or a violent struggle - a holy war. But if you want to twist the agreed upon meaning with a "literal" meaning - you tell the reader in this context it means holy war. And bingo you can use a piece of scripture that is interpreted peacefully in the vast majority of Islam to justify beheading people or blowing them up.

But your comments that group all of Islam together are not siding with those opposed to the beheaders. By blaming all of Islam, you're pointing the finger at those fighting the fight that you should want them to fight.
 
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Carringbush2010 said:
The reason the minuscule number of nationalist types get media attention is because it raises click bait > revenue.

The reason spud head speaks in this tone is because he has an ideological agenda, the medias agenda is revenue driven, there is a distinct difference.

So this nationalist tone is not the 'Aussie way'
Click to expand...

Dutton will run an election on it, and I think he'll win. I'm not saying anything about Australians. It's a global movement that is winning elections- a pushback to what many feel was an overcorrection.
 
SaintsSeptember said:
We do tend to be seeing more of this philosophy fueled by social media.
As an Australian i tend to observe US politics, i can't affect it, but it can affect me in a roundabout way. But i can't understand how people in Australia become staunchly "Trump" or "Anti-trump " ( never any middle ground ).
Every issue is either for or against. Never any middle ground.
Click to expand...
This is the thing though, aussies by and large aren't zero or 100 in their view about Trump, these boards, there's plenty of examples of zero and 100, that's a certain yes. These boards are not a reflection of outside your front door.

Jan and Joe are balanced enough to have varying opinions somewhere in the middle, the overwhelming the majority.
 
sr36 said:
Dutton will run an election on it, and I think he'll win.
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That's to speak to a small number of his base, which is small.

If he does win the election it won't be by running nationalist rhetoric, we're not in the 70s and 60s anymore. We're much more culturally diverse and only a few support this us vs them rhetoric.

I think it'd be a gamble on spuds part because of that.

He's likely more to push the col narrative to attempt to win the lodge.

Anyway let's hope he doesn't win, would be much better to have a minority alp govt.
 
Carringbush2010 said:
That's to speak to a small number of his base, which is small.

If he does win the election it won't be by running nationalist rhetoric, we're not in the 70s and 60s anymore. We're much more culturally diverse and only a few support this us vs them rhetoric.

I think it'd be a gamble on spuds part because of that.

He's likely more to push the col narrative to attempt to win the lodge.

Anyway let's hope he doesn't win, would be much better to have a minority alp govt.
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Howard did it with Tampa in 2001, so you don't need to go that far back in time for it and there has been a global shift towards nationalism since then - I think you'll be surprised by how much traction he gets and also how little push back. Labour is shifting towards him.
 
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sr36 said:
Howard did it with Tampa in 2001, so you don't need to go that far back in time for it and there has been a global shift towards nationalism since then - I think you'll be surprised by how much traction he gets and also how little push back. Labout is shifting towards him.
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Nah, you're listening to msm and social media, again these boards and most other social media is NOT a reflection of society outside your front door.

Even then we're talking about 20 odd years ago, societal norms in this country have definitely changed a LOT. By and large Jan and Joe are much more inclusive and much less tolerant of pejorative narratives toward marginalized minorities.

I don't wanna derail the thread fonz, so I'll leave it there. pm me if you wanna continue this discussion.
 
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Carringbush2010 said:
That's to speak to a small number of his base, which is small.

If he does win the election it won't be by running nationalist rhetoric, we're not in the 70s and 60s anymore. We're much more culturally diverse and only a few support this us vs them rhetoric.

I think it'd be a gamble on spuds part because of that.

He's likely more to push the col narrative to attempt to win the lodge.

Anyway let's hope he doesn't win, would be much better to have a minority alp govt.
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Being nationalist would be a front. They are really pawns for global capital

Just ask ukraine
 
ElectricG said:
Great point chief. Nazis would agree with these nurses about the Jews.
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There are two billion Muslims. Two billion. Most have probably never even met a Jew before and you think we're thinking about killing Jews all day? Get real. Both Jews and Christians are considered people of the book. This narrative that we somehow have it out for Jews in particular is just ridiculous. The extremists will target anyone indiscriminately. They kill more Muslims than every other group combined.

Let's talk facts. Give me the number of Muslims that were killed by Jews compared to the number of Jews that were killed by Muslims in the last 40 years?

Then give me the number of Muslims that were killed by white people compared to the number of white people that were killed by Muslims in the last 40 years.

Then give me the number of Muslims that were killed by Christians compared to the number of Christians that were killed by Muslims in the last 40 years.

And apparently we're the ones that always think about killing. Please.
 
10571z said:
Is it that hard for Muslim leaders to not come up with excuses for the pair of nurses?

What they said was disgusting, simple.
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Muslim leaders in general aren't making excuses for them. Not even the nurses themselves agree with what they said anymore. I'm in the community you speak of and every single Muslim I've spoken to was angry at what they said, me included.

What we don't accept however is to be brushed with the same brush. The constant effort to make their words representative of all Muslims is what we fight against. We also don't accept the double standards given that we've seen genocidal and disgusting statements from Zionists towards Palestinians and Muslims met with silence by the media and the Australian public for 15 months. Alan Howe in The Australian called Gazans gorillas. No widespread condemnations.

When a woman attempted to run over Imam Wesam Charkawi in an attempted hate-crime, where was the condemnation? Kelly Farrugia was charged for that and also for threatening a Muslim woman. Where is the widespread coverage and anger from Australians?

Today, two unrelated Muslim women were attacked in Epping 10 minutes apart. One of them was pregnant.

Will we hear Albanese, Dutton, and the rest of the media cover this as an Islamophobic attack? Will they organise a special taskforce to combat Islamophobia? Will we see outrage amongst Australians? No we won't.
 

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Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today.... part 2

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