Analysis The season so far

[Jen2310]

It was said by Licuria I think... that at the end of 2020, they acknowledged, that the team we had... wasn't good enough to take us forward. While I'm not convinced its a full rebuild, it is more or less a refresh -- but you can't play all the kids at once.

1. They need to be ready.
2. You need to surround them with experience.

If McCreery and Ginni werent, injured and if Henry wasn't dropped, we would have played 7 kids under 21.

 

[Carringbush2010]

It's not a raw team. The youngsters were in the VFL this week except for the reef. The seniors are being asked to be more adventurous, that is the key change.

Ok this team hasn't spent more than two pre seasons together, some only one pre season. They haven't had sufficient time to gel with the new players and system which is evidently different to last year.

Term / label it how you wish.

 

[Carringbush2010]

It was said by Licuria I think... that at the end of 2020, they acknowledged, that the team we had... wasn't good enough to take us forward. While I'm not convinced its a full rebuild, it is more or less a refresh -- but you can't play all the kids at once.

1. They need to be ready.
2. You need to surround them with experience.

If McCreery and Ginni werent, injured and if Henry wasn't dropped, we would have played 7 kids under 21.

No team refreshes with bulk of new kids, as for Licca's statement that isn't an official we're resetting, it's an acknowledgement.

 

[No SPIN]

Do we want to finish 8th and just make up the numbers though?, would it not be better to finish lower to give our list management some breathing room to repair the imbalance? And give the necessary time for development.

I'm not advocating tanking but rising too soon with holes in the list doesn't bode well trying to build a profile to win a flag. And the club will not go down the tanking path, it's clear the club have development in mind.

Giving our young squad reward for effort, by making the 8, and then playing finals, offers a fast tracking in development that far outweighs a better pick IMO.

 

[Jen2310]

No team refreshes with bulk of new kids, as for Licca's statement that isn't an official we're resetting, it's an acknowledgement.

yup, they have acknowledged it, as our list as a whole is young. 3/4 of the list are 1-3 year players. Although Leppa said they aren't usuing the R word inside the club. They are aiming to win for the now with an eye on the future.

 

[LuckyLee]

Moving in the right direction for sure. Last two years of drafting and trading have been better than over some other seasons in recent past.

But we’re not going to be a genuine Premiership chance without a bona fide top-tier full forward. We’ve wasted several years on recycled and experimental hopefuls. Cox, Cameron, Kelly etc are clearly not the answer.

I hope we finish 2022 in the bottom four (but with lots more of the already evident player/team/coach development) then use that top 4 pick to draft/trade for the genuine full-forward that we desperately need. Or make the commitment to Darcy Moore

30

Darcy Moore

Age

28

Ht

203cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

169.1

3star

D

13.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

0.7

1star

MG

182.0

3star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

87.4

2star

as our full forward and recruit an A-grade key defender to replace him in defence. Either way, we are one or two Key position players short of what we need. But we’re on track in most other regards.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Carringbush2010]

Giving our young squad reward for effort, by making the 8, and then playing finals, offers a fast tracking in development that far outweighs a better pick IMO.

You can't 'fast track' development of players, they'll only develop as quickly as they can. Time varies for different players.

IF we were to reward effort by making the 8, this year, that's great for confidence but it would leave holes in our list. And we'd only be making up the numbers, and that wouldn't be good for the confidence of our <20 - 30 game players.

 

[Carringbush2010]

yup, they have acknowledged it, as our list as a whole is young. 3/4 of the list are 1-3 year players. Although Leppa said they aren't usuing the R word inside the club. They are aiming to win for the now with an eye on the future.

And that's what they should be doing, not trying to force acceleration of development of our inexperienced players as some on here seem to have a wish for.

Forcibly speeding up development instead of organically will not end well, I trust the panel and MC are well aware of this and are doing as they should.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Moving in the right direction for sure. Last two years of drafting and trading have been better than over some other seasons in recent past.

But we’re not going to be a genuine Premiership chance without a bona fide top-tier full forward. We’ve wasted several years on recycled and experimental hopefuls. Cox, Cameron, Kelly etc are clearly not the answer.

I hope we finish 2022 in the bottom four (but with lots more of the already evident player/team/coach development) then use that top 4 pick to draft/trade for the genuine full-forward that we desperately need. Or make the commitment to Darcy Moore as our full forward and recruit an A-grade key defender to replace him in defence. Either way, we are one or two Key position players short of what we need. But we’re on track in most other regards.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

The bolded is a very low bar, and difficult to do worse.

 

[Markfs]

Yes I get you're saying it's a reset by stealth and not make it public. What the club was actually doing, last year or so it seemed was to continue to attempt to make / win finals. We kept the same stale and not successful game plan from the year before, that doesn't look like a reset to most.

so we are not attempting to win games now? Then why is every senior player in the seniors?

i'm not really fussed about when it happened. I dont have much of an interest in history.

I think this stage of the rebuild is slowing down the process and managing out the more senior players and especially those that arent up to it. I could pick at least 7 that should go....we need to clear these out and get another set of newbies... and hopefully those in the VFL will be ready to fill the void.

 

[No SPIN]

You can't 'fast track' development of players, they'll only develop as quickly as they can. Time varies for different players.

IF we were to reward effort by making the 8, this year, that's great for confidence but it would leave holes in our list. And we'd only be making up the numbers, and that wouldn't be good for the confidence of our <20 - 30 game players.

If that was the case “finals experience “ would not be spoken about as an advantage in finals games.

If you don’t think confidence by making the 8, then adding finals experience is a huge positive for development then I’m not sure we’ve been watching the same sport.

 

[Markfs]

Ok this team hasn't spent more than two pre seasons together, some only one pre season. They haven't had sufficient time to gel with the new players and system which is evidently different to last year.

Term / label it how you wish.

team or list. The current team is relatively old....a lot of over 28 year olds...

the team is not raw or new or anything resembling that.

 

[Jen2310]

And that's what they should be doing, not trying to force acceleration of development of our inexperienced players as some on here seem to have a wish for.

Forcibly speeding up development instead of organically will not end well, I trust the panel and MC are well aware of this and are doing as they should.

Yeah, development naturally. Increasing it can backfire especially before kids are ready. Some kids are ready, but some are not. But forcing it on them could scar them.

 

[Carringbush2010]

so we are not attempting to win games now? Then why is every senior player in the seniors?

i'm not really fussed about when it happened. I dont have much of an interest in history.

I think this stage of the rebuild is slowing down the process and managing out the more senior players and especially those that arent up to it. I could pick at least 7 that should go....we need to clear these out and get another set of newbies... and hopefully those in the VFL will be ready to fill the void.

Yeah I never said that, it's clear our 'reset' is in full mode now. The reason the intent to have all those senior players is for development of inexperienced players.

'Rebuild', regen, reset, refresh whatever you wanna call it relies on this, particularly development of those inexperienced players in a new game style.

 

[sr36]

Do we want to finish 8th and just make up the numbers though?, would it not be better to finish lower to give our list management some breathing room to repair the imbalance? And give the necessary time for development.

I'm not advocating tanking but rising too soon with holes in the list doesn't bode well trying to build a profile to win a flag. And the club will not go down the tanking path, it's clear the club have development in mind.

I'd take our players learning to win enough close games to make finals and final's experience - plus our enjoyment - ahead of the small advantage of getting to pick a couple of picks earlier.

 

[Carringbush2010]

team or list. The current team is relatively old....a lot of over 28 year olds...

the team is not raw or new or anything resembling that.

It's inexperienced with quite a few first year players, that's hardly a team that knows each other well or has several pre seasons under its belt together.

Whatever term you wanna use, we have a litany of < 20 game players with a litany of career twilight players. Call it imbalanced if you like.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I'd take our players learning to win enough close games to make finals and final's experience - plus our enjoyment - ahead of the small advantage of getting to pick a couple of picks earlier.

I'm more in the corner of not forcing a fast track of development, I think the panel and mc would be of the same view. So I'm not suggesting it's an either or.

In any case we need to balance the list up, making the 8 for the sake of making the 8 > this year < is not the path to take. Yes it's a confidence booster but it denies us chance to add what we need to add to the list to balance it.

It's gonna take time to get experience into our inexperienced and add what we need to add. Can't forcibly rush it.

 

[Markfs]

It's inexperienced with quite a few first year players, that's hardly a team that knows each other well or has several pre seasons under its belt together.

Whatever term you wanna use, we have a litany of < 20 game players with a litany of career twilight players. Call it imbalanced if you like.

in case you're on holidays and you havent seen our team this week

 

[Carringbush2010]

in case you're on holidays and you havent seen our team this week

View attachment 1377049

Like I said, imbalanced.

 

[#26]

Still in the 8

Well, we were

 

[#26]

What was Hinkley trying to say after their loss today?

View attachment 1376571

0-5

 

[60 Yards Out]

Giving our young squad reward for effort, by making the 8, and then playing finals, offers a fast tracking in development that far outweighs a better pick IMO.

I prefer this thinking. Getting in the habit of winning seems to me like the most important thing we could do, and far and away the best recipe for player development.

 

[Markfs]

well we have won 3 out of 4 in the VFL and thats where almost all of our young players are developing.....

 

[magpies42]

Very very different to 2020 and 2021.

Very very much a development year or two or even three.

What I've noticed so far this season:

Game style:

• Evidently very different, a manic style that relies on pressure around the ball / contest. You'll notice we close space on the oppo ball carrier and then have outside space to transition ball. It denies opposition clean disposal, we literally suffocate the opposition into submission. Sound familiar? Hint. Us 2017- 18 and tuggers in their dynasty. Note there are differences.......... I'll get to that later
• This is a very difficult game style to defeat, yet equally taxing, requires a lot and I mean a lot of two way running. It's why you'll see our players between the arcs in both i50 and d50 in perpetuity. Haven't seen Sides cover that much ground since 2018, he was the finals player of the year that year - for good reason
• Role play - or at least building toward it. We're heavily rotating players through centre bounces, note Billy and TheGoey rotating mid forward, Pendles and Crisp doing similar from half back. This is not like set players for set positions for most teams. My guess is this is a compensation for lack of personnel - in a balanced sense.

Team Defence:

• Linked with the above, the instruction is clear, guard your space to disallow the opposition clear and easy transition. We don't see this on the TV but we guard space, this allows us to close space at the contest. You would've noticed this in the game last night when bris had ball and had to slowly and carefully transition through our 'team defence'
• If they couldn't do that they'd be forced to kick down the line to a contest or basically play phone box footy with us. Then it's even contest, the intent we have is outnumber in that contest AND have outnumber on the outside of the contest to allow us uncontested transition. Swarm and spread. Sound familiar?

Las qtr fade outs:

• Again linked to both of the above, while this game style we use is very difficult to defeat it is equally taxing to execute. This is likely the cause of our last qtr fade outs because of the taxing factor of our game. Because it requires two way running all game to outnumber in the phone box and on the outside.
• You would've noticed that in all the games previous to last night that we forced the opposition to play game on our terms - the difference being we run out of petrol tickets and they beat us at our own game.
• Most glaringly the cats game, Madge being caught out guarding space, cats win contest and have numbers on the ball win and easy transition to Cameron, coz we run outta fuel, he wasn't able to close space like earlier in the game or like Moore could've.

Tempo the game when the opposition has momentum:

• For the first time we managed to slow the game down when the opposition had momentum last night, and it worked. IF we can do this going forward it will alleviate (somewhat) our last qtr fade outs. We did not fade out in the last last night.
• This is key, managing our manic game when it's not on our terms. We failed this in the cats game, they beat us at our own game i:e we kept pressure up and they applied their own but had fuel - we run out of.

Talent depth:

• This is a big problem, we went tall with Cox / Cameron against a formidable Adams / Andrews, was never going to work. But it was forced and shows our lack of depth, yeah Freddy's return was a highlight but he is not yet ready to enforce pain on such opposition
• The wc game last week it showed without the grunt of TheGoey and Tay in the phone box we were always up against it. Regardless of rotating mids until we get 50 plus games into our hopefuls then we really can only rely on system. Which by all accounts is standing up pretty well considering.

List imbalance:

• Also another big big problem, we have blue chip players that matches any league wide, the problem is our key position and age demographic. It's imbalanced as any AND the fact that we're last to hop on the rebuild train.
• In saying that it does give Fly and the panel freedom to mould it how they see fit, the pressure on the coaching panel is pretty much nil AND gives them time to find the strengths of each individual player.

Overall:

• Good news is system wise this is cannot fail, it's a fait accompli and it is not personnel reliant, it needs tweaking i:e tempo the game and find balance in it when needed but the rebuild is positive
• The bad news is, if someone with the list of like the dees or dogs or cats employ the same we won't match it on the back of our imbalanced inferior list.

In a nutshell we really are hoping the planets align in a development sense and hopefully pinch a flag, in the meantime the dogs, dees and maybe lions may well be building dynasty teams, if not already. Not to mention we need to hope and pray the blose and the bomb outs don't flag before us. We had our chance a decade ago at a dynasty and blew it, let's hope they blow it too.

Hopeful we can pinch a flag 24 - 25, without Pendles, Sides, Howe and Roughy

Agree in most part, the fade-outs are not helped by the number of new players we have on the list and their fitness not being up to standard.

The game plan, and any attacking game plan relies on quality ball movement and particularly when moving it directly through the middle and CHF. Our skills are still atrocious, nothing has changed in that regard and it will continue to cost us games.

You have to convert your chances otherwise invariably it will come back to bite and we’ve seen that in the last few weeks.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Agree in most part, the fade-outs are not helped by the number of new players we have on the list and their fitness not being up to standard.

The game plan, and any attacking game plan relies on quality ball movement and particularly when moving it directly through the middle and CHF. Our skills are still atrocious, nothing has changed in that regard and it will continue to cost us games.

You have to convert your chances otherwise invariably it will come back to bite and we’ve seen that in the last few weeks.

Actually quality ball movement is less required with this system compared to say a WC transition game of previous years. The most simple way I could put it, is that it relies on effort to outnumber at the contest and on the outside of any given contest. All day running from our players between the arcs. It's not personnel reliant compared to that WC example.

Yes conversion is a problem, but obviously that is a work in progress, same with the 'tank' issues, will take time for our younger / inexperienced players to develop that all day running.

You would've noticed guys like Sides and TheGoey (and the rest) being everywhere the ball was, be it i50, d50 or in between. All day two running.

You would've noticed that the last qtr fade outs was the opposition beating us at our own game, as we weren't going to allow them transition footy. We kept the pressure on and they beat us at it.

Regardless it's a fail safe system when we address those issues. Clearly the panel and MC are of a view working towards it, that's why it's a development year or two or three.