List Mgmt. List Management Discussion for 2022

[jenniferHAWKinS]

Burton has more penetration in his kicks than CJ but I would definitely prefer the ball in CJ’s hands than Burton.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Don't agree, his defensive skills are massively underrated. This year alone he's been in so many key one on ones and especially with blokes taller or quicker and he just somehow wins them, he's got a knack for it.

Offensively his skills with kicking, reading the play, marking, cleanliness etc is all very good to elite levels but he really captured some really good defensive skills which has impressed me. His defensive one on one % is 23.1, which is very good. In comparison, Sicily sits at 22% and Hardwick 17.6%.

He gets some plaudits here but even with the other underrated players on our list (Hardwick, Morrison etc) he seems to get the least amount and he's probably one of the more talented players, still young and just does his job and a high standard every week.

Could still be more aswell.

Agree 100%

Also Scrimmers biggest asset in my opinion is that he is just so consistent, he very rarely (if ever) plays a bad game.

That consistency is what separates the elite from the good IMOH (not saying that Scrimmers is elite yet but he has that trait of being ultra consistent).

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Agree 100%

Also Scrimmers biggest asset in my opinion is that he is just so consistent, he very rarely (if ever) plays a bad game.

That consistency is what separates the elite from the good IMOH (not saying that Scrimmers is elite yet but he has that trait of being ultra consistent).

Idk what is next for him but he's that close to being one of our best players. Attributes wise, consistency, is it a move to the middle? wing? does he have that tank or is it having more of a genuine role down back with Day, Bramble types moving to the wing more consistently?

 

[Yardie]

Burton isn't on our list so doesn't need to be managed within it.......

 

[Brishawk]

Don't agree, his defensive skills are massively underrated. This year alone he's been in so many key one on ones and especially with blokes taller or quicker and he just somehow wins them, he's got a knack for it.

Offensively his skills with kicking, reading the play, marking, cleanliness etc is all very good to elite levels but he really captured some really good defensive skills which has impressed me. His defensive one on one % is 23.1, which is very good. In comparison, Sicily sits at 22% and Hardwick 17.6%.

He gets some plaudits here but even with the other underrated players on our list (Hardwick, Morrison etc) he seems to get the least amount and he's probably one of the more talented players, still young and just does his job and a high standard every week.

Could still be more aswell.

He literally let an opponent run straight past him to goal without putting an arm out in the last game. He often leaves his opponent to hunt the ball and gives up goals that way. You won’t see that in a stat describing marking contests he is in. His marking is great.

Below you can see where scrimshaw starts and then you can see the player goes straight past him. Not even an outstretched arm. Almost zero defensive pressure put on the player. Very poor effort. He must do better than that in future.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

He literally let an opponent run straight past him to goal without putting an arm out in the last game. He often leaves his opponent to hunt the ball and gives up goals that way. You won’t see that in a stat describing marking contests he is in. His marking is great.

Below you can see where scrimshaw starts and then you can see the player goes straight past him. Not even an outstretched arm. Almost zero defensive pressure put on the player. Very poor effort. He must do better than that in future.

View attachment 1429200View attachment 1429201View attachment 1429202

Scrim can get caught out being too offensive at times but when he's in a one on one (aerially or on the ground) he's been very good.

This effort wouldn't of been accepted by anyone, but picking an effort like this doesn't really show his ability.

 

[burner1]

How many hbfs can we keep on the list for balance?

CJ and scrim are elite (or on path to elite) and are locks for the two flanks for a long time. Add 2 talls, Sicily and Hardwick and that’s a back 6. Day has shown signs of being an elite hbf but may also move into midfield. But for time being is the 7th defender.

But then we also have Impey, bramble, morris + Seamus, downie (listed as defender in mid season review) at BH. Both Morrison and howe can play back. Also most elite mids can play down back on a flank if needed.

Having 7-8+ basically specialised hbfs seems far too many and is making our list unbalanced.

We probably hoped brock, Morris, Seamus would be our small forwards - yet two are now defenders and brock a risk to leave.

Maybe we’ll see some guys tried up the ground but surprisingly hasn’t happened at all to date (ex Day)

Downie and Seamus may be saved by their injuries not giving them a clear run and other list changes but geez they’d want to show something as the chances they surpass CJ or scrim on a flank is very low (and yes downie could be a wing but seems to lack pace). But we need more mids and forwards and hbfs seems an obvious area to prune to free up spots.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

How many hbfs can we keep on the list for balance?

CJ and scrim are elite (or on path to elite) and are locks for the two flanks for a long time. Add 2 talls, Sicily and Hardwick and that’s a back 6. Day has shown signs of being an elite hbf but may also move into midfield. But for time being is the 7th defender.

But then we also have Impey, bramble, morris + Seamus, downie (listed as defender in mid season review) at BH. Both Morrison and howe can play back. Also most elite mids can play down back on a flank if needed.

Having 7-8+ basically specialised hbfs seems far too many and is making our list unbalanced.

We probably hoped brock, Morris, Seamus would be our small forwards - yet two are now defenders and brock a risk to leave.

Maybe we’ll see some guys tried up the ground but surprisingly hasn’t happened at all to date (ex Day)

Downie and Seamus may be saved by their injuries not giving them a clear run and other list changes but geez they’d want to show something as the chances they surpass CJ or scrim on a flank is very low (and yes downie could be a wing but seems to lack pace). But we need more mids and forwards and hbfs seems an obvious area to prune to free up spots.

If it was my choice, i'd give Scrim a chance to move up the ground but i don't think he'd want to. CJ is a natural defender, don't think he has the nous to play the wing but HB yes.

Day midfield, Bramble wing, Morris (could be the genuine 7th defender) Impey can play everywhere and will be valuable, Downie (wing if he makes it), Seamus (wing if he makes it).

Hardwick, Blanck, Sicily
Jiath, DGB, Scrimshaw
Impey, Morris?

Seamus, Bramble would be my wings, Downie?

Day midfield, Scrimshaw has the attributes but idk about tank or if he wants to.

 

[Jazzfan]

He's a good player Scrimshaw, but he's been just OK this year IMO. I highly doubt he would even be in our top 10 B&F right now.

Whilst he hasn't taken that next step as I would have expected, he's still young and has time.

Hopefully like CJ and Day, he has a big second half of the year... a part of me wonders but what impact Sicily being so dominant has had on these guys. And also, Clarko's defensive game plan made it far easier to dominate as a half-back given we rolled an extra number back and often Scrimshaw benefited with that.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

If it was my choice, i'd give Scrim a chance to move up the ground but i don't think he'd want to. CJ is a natural defender, don't think he has the nous to play the wing but HB yes.

Day midfield, Bramble wing, Morris (could be the genuine 7th defender) Impey can play everywhere and will be valuable, Downie (wing if he makes it), Seamus (wing if he makes it).

Hardwick, Blanck, Sicily
Jiath, DGB, Scrimshaw
Impey, Morris?

Seamus, Bramble would be my wings, Downie?

Day midfield, Scrimshaw has the attributes but idk about tank or if he wants to.

Given CJ's elite tank, would expect he is more likely to shift to a wing than Scrimmers, although as a forward, would far prefer to be leading into space looking at Scrimmers with the ball in his hand 50 metres ahead of me.

 

[burner1]

The issue with moving CJ up to wing is wing is often a pretty structured role these days - can do all the right running patterns and get 30 touches one week and 5 the next depending on how the game goes. It’s why some of the good wings are now hbfs (although some teams like dees look to utilise wings more actively). It’s probably why we’re spending so much time on Finn as a winger - massive tank, super disciplined etc. which is also what shiels, Morrison, howe also have in common (as our current wings).

We really need CJ in the action as he is so good at disrupting opposition offensive moves with his anticipation, leap and speed. If CJ went anywhere I reckon it’s high hff like fredicks at freo.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

The issue with moving CJ up to wing is wing is often a pretty structured role these days - can do all the right running patterns and get 30 touches one week and 5 the next depending on how the game goes. It’s why some of the good wings are now hbfs (although some teams like dees look to utilise wings more actively). It’s probably why we’re spending so much time on Finn as a winger - massive tank, super disciplined etc. which is also what shiels, Morrison, howe also have in common (as our current wings).

We really need CJ in the action as he is so good at disrupting opposition offensive moves with his anticipation, leap and speed. If CJ went anywhere I reckon it’s high hff like fredicks at freo.

I think you need good structured and disciplined wingers. I think it's why we have Bramble going down back to learn the defensive side of his game to eventually move back up.

Future probably holds a Bramble and Morrison wing setup.

 

[SammyC]

I'm not convinced Scrim or CJ should or could move into midfield. I think we get immense value from them behind the ball and I doubt we would get more value from them elsewhere.

Day is a different story - I think he has the skillset to do it but it will take time.

I think we also want one of Impey and Bramble to do the same - they both play a similar role in defence and we can't fit both. Bramble looks like he could play wing but reportedly has struggled in that role previously?

That means we are looking at Hardwick, Frost (or Blanck), DGB, Sicily, CJ, Scrim and Impey as a back 7 (ok with rotations?) with Day and bramble into the midfield / wing.

Hard to squeeze into a 22, particularly when day and bramble need some continuity and confidence at half back before making the switch up the ground.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

He literally let an opponent run straight past him to goal without putting an arm out in the last game. He often leaves his opponent to hunt the ball and gives up goals that way. You won’t see that in a stat describing marking contests he is in. His marking is great.

Below you can see where scrimshaw starts and then you can see the player goes straight past him. Not even an outstretched arm. Almost zero defensive pressure put on the player. Very poor effort. He must do better than that in future.

View attachment 1429200View attachment 1429201View attachment 1429202

Swita has a very good and quick step which wrong footed Scrim here. One of those ones where you are just completely done and nothing you can do about it.

 

[Brishawk]

Swita has a very good and quick step which wrong footed Scrim here. One of those ones where you are just completely done and nothing you can do about it.

Scrim well over committed to his right foot and never got close. Was terrible defending and not much of a step was required to go straight past him.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Scrim well over committed to his right foot and never got close. Was terrible defending and not much of a step was required to go straight past him.

Scrimshaw was stepped from about 3 meters, when Switkowski got the ball and went back behind Scrimshaw’s line.

When he passed him he was at least 2 meters away from Scrimshaw’s right hand side, as Scrim had overcommitted to his left.
Putting an arm out once he was beaten wasn’t going to do anything, both Switkowski and the ball were both gone.

 

[Hodgey 15]

He's a good player Scrimshaw, but he's been just OK this year IMO. I highly doubt he would even be in our top 10 B&F right now.

Whilst he hasn't taken that next step as I would have expected, he's still young and has time.

Hopefully like CJ and Day, he has a big second half of the year... a part of me wonders but what impact Sicily being so dominant has had on these guys. And also, Clarko's defensive game plan made it far easier to dominate as a half-back given we rolled an extra number back and often Scrimshaw benefited with that.

I thought Scrim was really good in early part of season.
Missing chunks of games has hurt him a bit.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Given CJ's elite tank, would expect he is more likely to shift to a wing than Scrimmers, although as a forward, would far prefer to be leading into space looking at Scrimmers with the ball in his hand 50 metres ahead of me.

To be fair to CJ his kicking skills have improved a lot this year. He's actually pretty reliable now.

But yes given the choice Scrimmers would be a great hit up kick to lead to as a forward.

 

[CHUBBSS]

I thought Scrim was really good in early part of season.
Missing chunks of games has hurt him a bit.

Yup thought he was building to, might be the player that benefits the most from
The break tho

 

[Jables]

I think you need good structured and disciplined wingers. I think it's why we have Bramble going down back to learn the defensive side of his game to eventually move back up.

Future probably holds a Bramble and Morrison wing setup.

Was pretty happy with this change for Bramble because I wanted it a few weeks ago, take him out of his comfort zone.

It leads me to believe if we had any medium-term plans for Day we'd be doing the same thing, I see no signs for that and I'm not really holding out for it either, can't think of any half-back we've turned into a full-time mid this century (Gibson could've done it though) and I don't see it changing, it's always something people optimistically throw out there but the hard truth is there are no shortcuts to building a midfield.

 

[chopflop]

Scrimshaw was stepped from about 3 meters, when Switkowski got the ball and went back behind Scrimshaw’s line.

When he passed him he was at least 2 meters away from Scrimshaw’s right hand side, as Scrim had overcommitted to his left.
Putting an arm out once he was beaten wasn’t going to do anything, both Switkowski and the ball were both gone.

View attachment 1429565

To be fair to scrim i think he was right to attack the right foot of switta here. He would be expecting a snap from here and backup really should be coming from scrimmas right to press into that space. He got stepped because he overplayed the right but 9/10 right footers are snapping that from 30 out

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Was pretty happy with this change for Bramble because I wanted it a few weeks ago, take him out of his comfort zone.

It leads me to believe if we had any medium-term plans for Day we'd be doing the same thing, I see no signs for that and I'm not really holding out for it either, can't think of any half-back we've turned into a full-time mid this century (Gibson could've done it though) and I don't see it changing, it's always something people optimistically throw out there but the hard truth is there are no shortcuts to building a midfield.

Day will turn into a midfielder. He spent a fair amount of time in there and as a winger a few weeks ago and looked pretty good. It’s a big step but he’s so talented.

 

[Brishawk]

Scrimshaw was stepped from about 3 meters, when Switkowski got the ball and went back behind Scrimshaw’s line.

When he passed him he was at least 2 meters away from Scrimshaw’s right hand side, as Scrim had overcommitted to his left.
Putting an arm out once he was beaten wasn’t going to do anything, both Switkowski and the ball were both gone.

View attachment 1429565

Switkowski never even takes a single step to scrimshaws right. Scrimshaw doesn’t take short steps to avoid getting wrong footed.

Not sure he is as far away as you say at this point though. But he almost has his back to switkoski, such was his poor movement.


Ultimately Sicily, cj and scrim ignore their opponent and go to the ball without having any effect on the play. Switkowski is CJ’s opponent and Cj never gets back to defence. As this was immediately after a goal, I’m not sure who he thought was covering for him.



Sicily watches the ball and goes straight past the contest leaving his opponent to gather and pass to switkowski.



Freo have the ball immediately after the long kick comes in and we see scrim ball watching while his opponent goes to the goal square.


Sicily continues to ball watch instead of heading to the square to cover scrimshaw’s opponent. Hartigan, who is on the ground at this point, gets the closest to the goal kicker.

So three aggressive defenders ended up leaving freo with two spare players within 30m of goal. We have to be better than that as a group.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

I think you need good structured and disciplined wingers. I think it's why we have Bramble going down back to learn the defensive side of his game to eventually move back up.

Future probably holds a Bramble and Morrison wing setup.

Oh to have a young Brad Hill and Issie Smith for our wings.

Not sure a Morrison/Bramble combination is good enough for a flag competing team. Time will tell...

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Oh to have a young Brad Hill and Issie Smith for our wings.

Not sure a Morrison/Bramble combination is good enough for a flag competing team. Time will tell...

There’s no doubt in my mind that we may find a different bunch of wingmen in a future dynasty side. But who knows really, could be those two or it could be someone completely different.