List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[Mooresome]

Don't know what all the doubt is with McStay ,he is a more athletic Checkers , i would imagine his team has more checked out on him than the other way around, i can see him being better with our fast ball movement and back McRae and co to get the best out of him. Great get imo.

 

[The Phantom]

Not the stats of a $600k player
Pass.

 

[jc37]

I look at Ash Johnson and think it is the same player accept Johnson has more xfactor. If they idea is for him to play full back than maybe it makes sense.

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

McStay plays as the third tall for Brisbane, so he doesn't get much delivery to him inside F50, as Daniher or Hipwood, even Cameron, are the more go to F50 targets. He seems to be more of a floating forward / part-time ruck for the Lions.
At the Pies he will be getting alot more delivery to him, then what he gets at the Lions. I think he is a good contested mark, so playing with us will make him more prominent....

 

[Scodog10]

Really? I don’t see all the fuss with Bruhn.

Didn’t in his draft year either.

I’d much rather take our first pick to the draft and try for something much better.

…

Get Bruhn into the right environment and he’ll flourish. Playing it out a bit let’s say we get someone of similar quality all we’ve done with that move is miss 2 years of development. What if the deal involved Macrae as the main piece rather than our 1st?

 

[Scodog10]

We don't score much from hotspot balls. Brisbane do. Tonight, despite not touching it, he played a part in that. You'd think you could get what he did last night a lot cheaper than the rumours, but perhaps you can't?

It’s a completely different mix and scoring build up. Brisbane launch off half back and wing with Rich, Coleman, McLuggage and Starcevich setting up their ball movement. This leads to them having either hot spot opportunities or transition that will often overlook hit up forwards. The Gabba is also a ground that a forward like McStay can get lost whereas he looked sharp in their loss to Fremantle a month ago on the bigger oval. That’s without even considering that they don’t go to him when he’s on either…

Our system is more pressure and territory based which means our forwards can get to more contests and the talls can “cheat” a bit more. With Cameron and Bailey being ground level goalkickers that takes away a lot of the on the burst opportunities that our marking targets get (think Mihocek’s 2nd last week and Henry’s poster).

I’m not a fan of the trade thread becoming a pseudo McStay thread on Brisbane match days, but what I’d say to the critical amongst us is go and watch vision of Lipinski last year. He was likewise down the pecking order in a good line unit and struggled a lot. I get that some are critical because of the speculated contract, but it feels like a lot are treating him like broccoli by turning their nose up without even tasting. Have some faith that he’ll fit our system because the contract really isn’t as bad as some are suggesting!

 

[JLC]

I trust GW 100%

McStay must be coming as a defender.

 

[MyManLynch]

I trust GW 100%

McStay must be coming as a defender.

Can we request Brisbane to play him in defence next week.
Would like to have a look at that.

 

[JLC]

Can we request Brisbane to play him in defence next week.
Would like to have a look at that.

Hahaha would be good.

If I recall correctly he started as a defender.

Was he switched forward when Andrews cemented his spot as a defender or was there another reason?

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[Rusty Beam]

…

Get Bruhn into the right environment and he’ll flourish. Playing it out a bit let’s say we get someone of similar quality all we’ve done with that move is miss 2 years of development. What if the deal involved Macrae as the main piece rather than our 1st?

I just don’t see him ever becoming a dominant inside player, compared to those who are already elite in that area. Which is a worry given that’s where his strengths lean. His size and production head my list of concerns.

He’s probably still worth a mid to late first still though given he’s getting games.

Unfortunately Macrae is probably only worth a mid to late second. So I don’t see the point in bundling them together. Effectively they’d be trading at a relative high and us at a low. I also assume Macrae wouldn’t be too keen on heading to GWS.

Just on Macrae, something smells a bit given he still hasn’t re-signed. Maybe he was just hoping to get more games to pump up his contract or maybe the bulldogs (some payback for Lipinski) or another team are planning on ripping him out on the cheap.

 

[frizzle]

It’s a completely different mix and scoring build up. Brisbane launch off half back and wing with Rich, Coleman, McLuggage and Starcevich setting up their ball movement. This leads to them having either hot spot opportunities or transition that will often overlook hit up forwards. The Gabba is also a ground that a forward like McStay can get lost whereas he looked sharp in their loss to Fremantle a month ago on the bigger oval. That’s without even considering that they don’t go to him when he’s on either…

Our system is more pressure and territory based which means our forwards can get to more contests and the talls can “cheat” a bit more. With Cameron and Bailey being ground level goalkickers that takes away a lot of the on the burst opportunities that our marking targets get (think Mihocek’s 2nd last week and Henry’s poster).

I’m not a fan of the trade thread becoming a pseudo McStay thread on Brisbane match days, but what I’d say to the critical amongst us is go and watch vision of Lipinski last year. He was likewise down the pecking order in a good line unit and struggled a lot. I get that some are critical because of the speculated contract, but it feels like a lot are treating him like broccoli by turning their nose up without even tasting. Have some faith that he’ll fit our system because the contract really isn’t as bad as some are suggesting!

It doesn’t happen often but I completely disagree with pretty much your whole post. There are red flags in his game all over the place. Especially effort both offensively & defensively. 127 goals in 152 games in an eight year career says the contract is as bad as some are suggesting. Somebody like Mihocek should be totally miffed if it’s even close to being correct. Because I bet he isn’t on that much & he is far far better in every facet.
‘For him to come to us there has to be something going on with their first pick & a compo pick for them. I’ve got a fair bit of faith in Wright so I suspect he has something crafty going on. But if this is just a straight up free agent recruit on 5 x $600, then I’d think Ned Guy is still organising our contracts & list. Because this is something he would offer.
The Lipinski comparison also doesn’t sit well with me. Lippa couldn’t consistently break into a team with a well stacked midfield group. McStay is getting games & showing what he hasn’t got. Like I said in previous posts, I went to the Lions v Saints game at the Gabba while in Brisbane a few weeks back.
Another totally underwhelming game with really poor 2nd efforts. He is also pretty much the opposite of Mihocek in regards to work rate. He spends way too much time walking or soft jogging instead of working his arse off to present. Daniher & Hipwood ran & ran hard even if they were ignored. They gave an option. He had no hunger for the footy at all. I’d like to see something (anything) that tells me I get why they are keen to get him to the club. But I don’t understand how anybody can justify that decision based on recent exposed form because you are basically denying what your eyes see.
‘

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Why do we need an extra tall? Who is the 3rd tall forward/aerial threat that GC have playing alongside Chol and Casboult?
And why are we talking about this in the trade thread?

Shit. Clicked the wrong thread. Sorry.

 

[Quicky]

I could not disagree more about these continued comparisons between McStay and Mihocek. Mihocek has McStay covered handily in almost every aspect except height and aerial contest. The biggest difference though is that Mihocek has multiple avenues for goals and gets himself into more areas to kick em'. Whereas McStay is a mark-kick-goal forward and won't give you much in terms of goal kicking threat outside of this.

 

[Lifelong Pie]

I just don’t see him ever becoming a dominant inside player, compared to those who are already elite in that area. Which is a worry given that’s where his strengths lean. His size and production head my list of concerns.

He’s probably still worth a mid to late first still though given he’s getting games.

Unfortunately Macrae is probably only worth a mid to late second. So I don’t see the point in bundling them together. Effectively they’d be trading at a relative high and us at a low. I also assume Macrae wouldn’t be too keen on heading to GWS.

Just on Macrae, something smells a bit given he still hasn’t re-signed. Maybe he was just hoping to get more games to pump up his contract or maybe the bulldogs (some payback for Lipinski) or another team are planning on ripping him out on the cheap.

Not sure what MacRae would be doing but if he was to leave I think he would be stupid to go to the Bulldogs, they have a stacked midfield and he wouldn't go close to getting a game.

 

[Rusty Beam]

Not sure what MacRae would be doing but if he was to leave I think he would be stupid to go to the Bulldogs, they have a stacked midfield and he wouldn't go close to getting a game.

Yeah I get that right at the moment.

But a few of them are getting on in age and the lure of playing with a sibling could be pretty big depending on the individual.

Regardless it was just an example. You could easily substitute Bulldogs for a bunch of other clubs given our weak bargaining position.

 

[3KZ is Football]

I think he had $10,000 on himself for 7 disposals or less…

McStay has a running same game multi:

McStay seven or less kicks x zero goals x zero tackles x three or less marks.

It has served him well $$$$

 

[frizzle]

McStay has a running same game multi:

McStay seven or less kicks x zero goals x zero tackles x three or less marks.

It has served him well $$$$

Just as a matter of interest. How many on your board think he is a dud & have for some time? Percentage wise I mean?

 

[ipswichpies]

I do not see the point of McStay when we have hardly seen anything of both JJohnson and Krueger I think we should just give them a chance next season after all that is what they were recruited for.

If we were able to secure a KPF in the draft and then see how next season pan,s out as re Krueger and Johnson and maybe chase a free agent or trade for one a 5 yr deal for 27 is not a good idea IMV.

 

[Apex36]

I could not disagree more about these continued comparisons between McStay and Mihocek. Mihocek has McStay covered handily in almost every aspect except height and aerial contest. The biggest difference though is that Mihocek has multiple avenues for goals and gets himself into more areas to kick em'. Whereas McStay is a mark-kick-goal forward and won't give you much in terms of goal kicking threat outside of this.

Honestly I’m not convinced he has him covered in aerial contest either. McStay takes more marks because he plays higher up the ground, but Checkers actually has him covered for contested marks per game.

 

[Dynamics]

Honestly I’m not convinced he has him covered in aerial contest either. McStay takes more marks because he plays higher up the ground, but Checkers actually has him covered for contested marks per game.

Checkers is a significantly better footballer.

Have seen heaps of McStay over the years, both forward and back, and have zero qualms in saying it.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Just as a matter of interest. How many on your board think he is a dud & have for some time? Percentage wise I mean?

Most? Nobody hates him but the feeling is that if Collingwood is going to pay what has been touted in the media, then good luck to him. Thanks Dan, now off you go.

After he moved forward, he would get picked every week and for weeks on end he would not score a goal and hardly touch it. He would go on long leads up the ground and fly at every contest, but not hold his marks. He had the added disadvantage of missing the easiest goals imaginable, earning him the nickname “McSpray”.

Over the last few years he has improved his kicking and there is no doubt that he is brave and a nice person. He started the year quite well, but he is back to his standard self. His performance last night was typical of what he has served up fairly consistently, especially in 2020.

At the Lions there were those who argued that his “role” was to simply make a contest and fly for marks, bringing the ball to ground. (If that is what Collingwood is after, I am available for a fraction of the cost.) Not much of a “role” though. His biggest bag of goals is 4 which he has achieved maybe three times. He is also NOT a big game player. His record in our finals appearances is poor. It seems the bigger the occasion the worse he plays. To be honest, I have been potting him for years. He specialises in cheapies and on the whole is the “comedy player” among my circle of Lions friends.

I hasten to add (again) that he seems like a nice person and he is a good clubman. If Collingwood is in the market for an overpriced comedic forward, who will fly for everything, mark not very much and go missing for weeks on end, he’s your man.

Here are his stats. Check out the run of weeks where he doesn’t score (bearing in mind he started as a defender) and his low goal assist numbers. 2021 was his best year as a forward and I suspect that is what you are paying for, but buyer beware!

Not sad to see him go…but he is a good bloke by all accounts.

AFL Tables - Daniel McStay - Stats - Statistics

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

Just as a matter of interest. How many on your board think he is a dud & have for some time? Percentage wise I mean?

I don't think he is a dud. He is only 26, played 145 games, and continues to play regularly in one of the best sides in the competition.
He obviously plays a role to accommodate Daniher, Hipwood and even Cameron, in their F50, whilst relief rucking, so l don't think he's going to get the huge disposal or goalkicking totals each week.
If he comes to the Pies, which looks likely, his role will be completely different, as in, he will be one of the main targets up forward, and will see alot more ball directed to him inside our F50....

 

[frizzle]

I don't think he is a dud. He is only 26, played 145 games, and continues to play regularly in one of the best sides in the competition.
He obviously plays a role to accommodate Daniher, Hipwood and even Cameron, in their F50, whilst relief rucking, so l don't think he's going to get the huge disposal or goalkicking totals each week.
If he comes to the Pies, which looks likely, his role will be completely different, as in, he will be one of the main targets up forward, and will see alot more ball directed to him inside our F50....

Yes this is my greatest fear. Because the ball is coming back out of defense real quick.
Also I'm not sure a guy that can't make it as a 3rd tall marking forward will become much better as a main target. He will get better opponents & get worse. I think with Mihocek, Cameron & Krueger available he plays VFL.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

If getting Mcstay prevented us having a dip at the Carlton brothers that would not be good.

 

[Scodog10]

It doesn’t happen often but I completely disagree with pretty much your whole post. There are red flags in his game all over the place. Especially effort both offensively & defensively. 127 goals in 152 games in an eight year career says the contract is as bad as some are suggesting. Somebody like Mihocek should be totally miffed if it’s even close to being correct. Because I bet he isn’t on that much & he is far far better in every facet.
‘For him to come to us there has to be something going on with their first pick & a compo pick for them. I’ve got a fair bit of faith in Wright so I suspect he has something crafty going on. But if this is just a straight up free agent recruit on 5 x $600, then I’d think Ned Guy is still organising our contracts & list. Because this is something he would offer.
The Lipinski comparison also doesn’t sit well with me. Lippa couldn’t consistently break into a team with a well stacked midfield group. McStay is getting games & showing what he hasn’t got. Like I said in previous posts, I went to the Lions v Saints game at the Gabba while in Brisbane a few weeks back.
Another totally underwhelming game with really poor 2nd efforts. He is also pretty much the opposite of Mihocek in regards to work rate. He spends way too much time walking or soft jogging instead of working his arse off to present. Daniher & Hipwood ran & ran hard even if they were ignored. They gave an option. He had no hunger for the footy at all. I’d like to see something (anything) that tells me I get why they are keen to get him to the club. But I don’t understand how anybody can justify that decision based on recent exposed form because you are basically denying what your eyes see.
‘

Mihocek is on $500k+ so he isn’t exactly crying into his wheaties! McStay’s averaged less than a goal a game because Brisbane were rubbish in his first 4 seasons, he’s spent time down back and we aren’t recruiting him based on what he did in his first 80 matches anyway…

In terms of the effort indicators I’ve learned my lesson on commenting on that stuff from Murphy. Perhaps you see soft jogging immediately after a 150m repeat sprint effort and that’s your judgement, but the key for me is Brisbane are offering the guy $500k x 5. They analyse players games infinitely better than we do on effort indicators and if he were anywhere near as bad as you suggest he wouldn’t be getting a game let alone that contract offer.

In terms of Lipinski I’m not talking his ability to get a game I’m talking the critiques when he did. They are eerily similar to what we’re currently reading from the McStay naysayers about workrate and influence. Whilst I’m prepared to cop the comments knocking the contract (IMO, they’re justified if perhaps a little wide of the mark) what I won’t cop is this stuff about a guy that’s clearly best 22 in a top 4 team. I don’t even rate the move and would prefer we walk away (we’re not), but you’re rating of him is wrong.