Coach Alastair Clarkson III - new NMFC senior coach until at least end 2027 - NMFC board approved AC to start 1/11 amid ongoing HFC racism investigation

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I am curious to read the terms of reference but haven't been able to find them, despite the commentary on the AFL website saying they have been released. Have asked a couple of media mates who are also looking for them.
 
That's not what those things mean.

There are studies that show women also have unconscious bias against hiring women for particular roles. Even women who supposedly are right against that sort of thing. Hence its an unconscious bias, not a deliberate one.

There is a concept in law called mens rea. It means men are real and everything else isn't.

Merely pointing out the buzz words are used by media and lay persons immediately assume guilt because of the use of the wording!!!
 

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I know I come across as pretty aggro about this stuff at times but most of the time it takes a bit of effort to get that out of me irl. I don't really feel proud about arcing up over that stuff anymore.

So growing up in the 80s at school in Moonee Ponds there was a real Wogs v Skips thing that I didn't really fit into. There was a kid called Vito who some posters who went to school with me might remember. Went to Italy in high school, came back a year later and when I asked him what it was like he said:

"It was weird. There are no wogs in Italy. They're all just like you skips." That was eye mind opening for more than one reason. (I'd never identified as a skip before... lol.)

Essendon High School early to mid 80s had a daily wogs v skips battle.

More in jest and fun than anything else but boy did we love shit stirring each other at school.

By year 10 and above we’d be partying together on the weekend and return to hostilities during the week.

We did stick together whenever a rival school was threatening to come visit us for a rumble at Aberfeldie park.

Those were the days.


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I too accidentally listened to a repeat show last Saturday morning on the way to work. * knows why or what I was thinking, I believe I couldn’t find a song that could cheer me up at 530am on any other station.

As I listened it was a call back show on how its a disgrace, that the forced abortion was abhorrent (which is void of fact). Their callers started piling on.

I was shocked at the sincere convictions people had come to based on absolutely no ******* proof or evidence.
Classical example of modern faux rage syndrome.
 
Great attitude to have Ferbs, I wish more people could have it. My parents and grandparents generation seemed to be better in that regard, and I try to follow suit by not blowing up friendships just because of some differences in opinions or attitudes. It's one reason why I'm more interested in understanding the other side than I am in winning arguments against them. I feel a bit sad sometimes at some of the 'debates' I see, good faith appears to have gone out of fashion.

Personally I blame the internet for making it the easiest it has ever been to self select social circles from a young age. Previously you were pretty much stuck with people in physical proximity, so you either agreed with them (more likely anyway because those around you have an increased chance of holding the same beliefs) or else it was bloody difficult to cut them out of your life, so you just learnt to agree to disagree.
Echo chambers
 
Essendon High School early to mid 80s had a daily wogs v skips battle.

More in jest and fun than anything else but boy did we love s**t stirring each other at school.

By year 10 and above we’d be partying together on the weekend and return to hostilities during the week.

We did stick together whenever a rival school was threatening to come visit us for a rumble at Aberfeldie park.

Those were the days.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Yep, also giving each other shit about the lunches your mum packed for ya.
Celery with peanut butter, you skippy pooofta!!! eat gabagool like a real man.
 
Essendon High School early to mid 80s had a daily wogs v skips battle.

More in jest and fun than anything else but boy did we love s**t stirring each other at school.

By year 10 and above we’d be partying together on the weekend and return to hostilities during the week.

We did stick together whenever a rival school was threatening to come visit us for a rumble at Aberfeldie park.

Those were the days.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Same thing down in Melton. When we got bored of the skips vs wogs games we created a union - SWAT (skips wogs & Asians together) and took out our smartarse tendencies on teachers instead.
 
I have friends who have racist attitudes but aren't racist - they don't treat people differently based on skin colour or ancestry. They just get exposed to Sydney radio.

Some of our discussions get quite heated but we never hold them against each other.

Its a very intense issue but people (on both sides) acting with respect and in good faith can build good relationships.
I feel as though all of us are somehow hardwired to fear or at the very least be suspicious of others that are “different to ourselves in colour, look or speech or for the way they pray”.
I am proud that I came to the realisation that I am made up of many things good and bad, it has helped me realise that in the moment my initial opinion or thoughts are not the most important thing it’s the next action that defines what/who I am.

I’m really pleased that this is being discussed in this thread although somewhat clumsily.
 
Same thing down in Melton. When we got bored of the skips vs wogs games we created a union - SWAT (skips wogs & Asians together) and took out our smartarse tendencies on teachers instead.
Prolly more bullying towards povvo kids at my school. Coincidentally in early school some students were branded wogs as in germs. There were the odd Mediterranean kids but didnt really get singled out much. One kid called dennis kafelenocks used to live close to the school and would nip home at recess raiding his parents freezer bringing zooper doopers to the kids, as you could imagine he was pretty popular.
 

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Merely pointing out the buzz words are used by media and lay persons immediately assume guilt because of the use of the wording!!!
Yeah this is the problem. As DocSholl said it shouldn't be taken as a criticism. Its just the situation. Everyone has to do it tough at times.
 
It's possible, sure, but it doesn't justify the claim that they would now feel 'betrayed' and 'heartbroken' if Clarko and Fagan went back to work.
Its probably just the rhetoric that goes with these situations.

But it may be how they feel. So assuming, as I am, its a miscommunication or something along those lines - it could still be that the players and their partners have felt hurt and betrayal about this for over a decade. And if so then they'd have been dwelling on it and reliving it, reinforcing their view and justifying their anger to themselves for all that time. We should all know how unreliable eye witness testimony is by now. One of the reasons is that by re-telling your memories to yourself you change them a little.

If that's the case its gonna be very hard for players and family, especially if they were expecting some sort of retribution for their suffering.

It may still turn out those two were campaigners about it all too. I don't have an opinion on that and won't until I see the final reports, but I'd prefer my assumption to be the most accurate interpretation obviously. I'm biased and want what's good for my footy club.
 
I'm f^cking over all thie media driven, ridiculous commentary.

Sure ithe Hawks review might have some legit issues - that is important to identify and rectify.

However people are presumed innocent and this "story/investigation" has been handled terribly.

Clarko, welcome, and let's get wins and prove why the appointment so exciting.
 
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Merely pointing out the buzz words are used by media and lay persons immediately assume guilt because of the use of the wording!!!
Exactly. Classic example was caro naming jed in the context of the hawks report with zero evidence. Not just buzzwords but framing of reporting.

Like when so called inversagative current affairs shows play creepy music with slowmo footage of alleged fraudsters.
 
I know I come across as pretty aggro about this stuff at times but most of the time it takes a bit of effort to get that out of me irl. I don't really feel proud about arcing up over that stuff anymore.

So growing up in the 80s at school in Moonee Ponds there was a real Wogs v Skips thing that I didn't really fit into. There was a kid called Vito who some posters who went to school with me might remember. Went to Italy in high school, came back a year later and when I asked him what it was like he said:

"It was weird. There are no wogs in Italy. They're all just like you skips." That was eye mind opening for more than one reason. (I'd never identified as a skip before... lol.)
Did Vito look like this ?
90186D99-6035-44AD-8C4E-2D4B09DFC6CE.jpeg
 
That is the weirdest looking pack of smiths crisps I have ever seen! The packet looks like a book.

"It's a Smithdiddlyumptious Bar. Here Vito, try one!"

d8db504d-59de-46a5-963e-d717ac0b4786_screenshot.jpg
 
Yep I know the 3 and I’ve heard the counter abortion argument too plus quite a few other stories about allegations made by all 3 and none of it makes sense. As others have said this will involve money/settlements and then changes in the industry and all parties move on.
In that case I don't think they (at least clarko and fagen) will ask for money, probably just a retraction, potentially still anonymously. If you are looking for harm minimisation then that's your best ticket.
 
Tas-length post incoming. Apologies in advance….

Despite not weighing in on the subject thus far, I've been closely following the saga since it broke. In addition to devouring all the attendant media, I’ve literally read every single freaking post in this thread and the main board thread on the subject. And while I feel like I’ve been lobotomised ten times over as a result, I have to say it's been mighty interesting observing people’s reactions, both from my fellow North tragics to the unwashed masses of opposition-supporting crud.

By and large I’m in the ‘keeping a neutral line on this one’ camp. The reality is that us plebs in the cheap seats have zero clue what transpired between the complainants and the accused, bar the one-sided allegations that have been publicly aired to date. With that in mind and so little known, I agree with Hearts – I am as wary of the people assured of Clarko’s innocence as I am of those wishing to condemn him without hearing his response to the allegations, or before the investigation has had an opportunity to run its course. Both reactions seem to be mostly based on feels and desired outcomes.

Don’t get me wrong, there’s been some incredibly insightful contributions made (looking at you squid guy) and there's a lot that has been said in this thread that I absolutely agree with, but at the same time I have found a few posts to be a little on the distasteful side. Some low-level victim blaming and the like (particularly around the subject of payouts) that I just can’t get on board with. I have a huge amount of respect for the posters who don’t turn a blind eye to shitposting just because someone happens to be on the same ‘side’ as them.


Anywho, after wading through the mire of this hot topic, here’s a few of my simple(ton) thoughts on the subject….in no particular order….

- Unless there’s some concrete evidence to support the allegations that have been made, the inevitable ‘he said, she said’ dynamic pretty much guarantees an inconclusive and/or potentially muddy finding from the investigation. Particularly if it's inadvertently exacerbated by the complainants not wishing to participate in proceedings.

- I don’t blame the complainants in any way for not wanting to participate in the investigation, and my 'benefit of the doubt' read on that would be that it’s (quite understandably) coming from a place of distrust, rather than an unwillingness to have their allegations tested.

- If the investigation plays out in the above manner, Clarkson will definitely be our coach next season.

- I’m highly sceptical as to whether any of this will be the catalyst for significant change in AFL club culture, both with respect to dealings with young FN recruits, and players in general. There will be an avalanche of meaningless motherhood statements from the AFL and little more.

- I continue to trust Sonja’s judgement regarding all in Sunbury.

- If the complainants' allegations do happen to hold water, ‘best intentions’ may be a mitigating factor but it's certainly not a cover-all defence. So in that scenario, Clarko will be cooked bread.

- The Jackson obsession. While I get the hand-wringing over the way Rusty handled the story, and the angst around his hilarious and deeply embarrassing melt on Twitter the other day, wrt to the article he has written (and the subsequent fallout), what’s done is done now. Endlessly harping on about the article at this point would seem to serve little purpose. On the contrary, it simply presents as an unnecessary distraction from the larger, more important story at hand. And I would assume that's not what people - in good conscience - want.

- The hamfisted handling of the ABC article aside – and as highly un-ideal as these developments have been for my beloved club – I’m thankful that Jackson broke the story because I have a feeling that were it left in the hands of the AFL and the Hawthorn FC, the story may never have seen the light of day. And gun new coach aside, some things are more important than the partisan leanings of football fans.

- Given the circumstances and the timelines, etc, I am comfortable with Clarko starting November 1. We need a coach and I’ve heard he goes alright.

- If the investigation is thorough and there are no adverse findings against Clarko, I don’t really give a rat's about any residual stigma around his coaching us. As long as it doesn’t adversely affect sponsorship and corporate partnerships, it’s meaningless ‘noise’ (TM Sonja) that ultimately counts for 3/5ths of ****-all.
 
Prolly more bullying towards povvo kids at my school. Coincidentally in early school some students were branded wogs as in germs. There were the odd Mediterranean kids but didnt really get singled out much. One kid called dennis kafelenocks used to live close to the school and would nip home at recess raiding his parents freezer bringing zooper doopers to the kids, as you could imagine he was pretty popular.
Sure it wasnt Dionysus Kafelenos?
 
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