Review Power v Blues - Bye Bye Sweet 13

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sobrave said:
No, they absolutely hyped themselves up to beat gws last night. Rory the third's 250th, back at home again, Saturday night. That was just the best they could muster.
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True, but in their home Showdowns Port generally has let them play to their strengths. Even before yesterday it was a 50/50 game. Our 13 wins had us with the 6th best percentage, which tells us how we were good, but also lucky. Certainly not great. Adelaide will rightly go in as favourites. Even after yesterday we have the better side, but, most sides have teams they match up well on, despite ladder positions and unfortunately we are one of theirs.
 
Andre said:
True, but in their home Showdowns Port generally has let them play to their strengths. Even before yesterday it was a 50/50 game. Our 13 wins had us with the 6th best percentage, which tells us how we were good, but also lucky. Certainly not great. Adelaide will rightly go in as favourites. Even after yesterday we have the better side, but, most sides have teams they match up well on, despite ladder positions and unfortunately we are one of theirs.
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Percentage can also show how easy your draw is.

Look at Geelong, how many blow out games have they had this year but racked up the losses
 

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Simple fact we were completely off on all facets.

The midfield got pants and lacked structure. It exposed the backs and forwards.

Was it by design or just heavy workload or arrogance? We will never know.

I am still confident, our best connected is good enough. Collingwood goes through peaks and troughs too.

Connor Rozee what a reliable gun now. Completely consistent package, that’s what Butters needs to work on
 
Great run of 13 wins, very rare, always going to lose one. Often when you do it is a beating. In a 23-game season shit will happen a couple of times. Port were due to lose, missing a few, Carlton were as red hot as they have been for god knows how many years (I forgot), so teh club quickly looks at what happened, and then move on to next week. Still think you'll win it this year.
 
Jimthegreat said:
Great run of 13 wins, very rare, always going to lose one. Often when you do it is a beating. In a 23-game season s**t will happen a couple of times. Port were due to lose, missing a few, Carlton were as red hot as they have been for god knows how many years (I forgot), so teh club quickly looks at what happened, and then move on to next week. Still think you'll win it this year.
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I'm waiting for 'shit will happen ' with Collingwood. Did Geelong even lay an egg at all last year?
 
Ford Fairlane said:
To be fair to Lachie, one goal he was on the wing tackling and Jonas dropped a mark and fell over then Motlop capitalised;

The second goal Lachie dropped off him and tried to spoil the ball away from Curnow and Aliir, mistimed the spoil and Motlop crumbed it, walked around Jonas and goaled

The third goal was a quick break from the centre square. both sprinted to the Aliir v Curnow contest, the ball spilled into the Motlop's path and Jonas watched Motlop run past him.

Hinkley likes to talk about team defence, Jonas dismantled that.
Click to expand...

In basketball there's a term of "helping the helper" - which is a concept that their Port defence has structured its team defence on. That is, when it's time to go and step up, do it wholeheartedly knowing that someone is going to be supporting you to cover in the event that you either make a mistake or that the opposition beats you in the contest.

Jones coming off his man is fine when he's got someone else adding to the contest who will cover for him. However, when Jonas is supposed to be helping the helper, it's akin to having a scarecrow in the middle of the field and the farmer yelling out for them to come inside for a cup of tea.

Jones had a poor game all up, but Jonas completely dismantles the structure of the defence. The game has well and truly passed him by and it is quite frankly embarrassing that neither he nor the coaches have said "time to hang the boots up, mate."
 
Waspy79 said:
Suggestions we lost the game due to selections are laughable and ill informed. We simply have s**t depth, a ruckman who is barely serviceable and came up against a white hot team on their home deck playing for their season.
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So we lost the game due to selection, Because of the players we brought in at selection, We lost!
 
Ant Bear said:
Ollie Lord, you need to learn how to kick before you can command a place in this team.
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What i would like to know, is how does someone go through all that junior footy, development squads, draft camps, VFL sides etc into an AFL side as a forward and not be able to kick for shit. Like actual how do you get drafted as a forward? literally the most important attribute to have.
 

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DazzaTys said:
I expected a loss but that was rubber dog shizen out of Hong Kong terrible. Opportunity for some fringe players to stake a claim and they completely pooed the bed. Not sure Mead is going to be AFL standard and Jonas is cooked.
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Mead was never going to be a better inclusion that warranted narkle being dropped.
 
I'm here to try and unmelt some people but it will be difficult.
I didn't think that Carlton was that good. They have a style they enjoy playing. We were just under with injuries and form.
I don't think the loss is the end of the world but we really know where we stand and where most of our players stand.

I am also happy to blame Josh Carr and not Ken Hinkley for the loss but really we were down on players but in terms of selection and other things, Carr has to be to blame unless Hinkley has wangled his power back. I doubt it so Carr will have to go back to the drawing board and do some real coaching in the next 4 weeks. You can't laud Carr for 13 weeks of wins and then bash Hinkley for the 1 loss.

We have to talk about a few things before we dive in.

I thought we overdid the selections this week. I listened to Hinkley's press conference and he talked about how SANFL form for some guys was really good and it seemed to automatically mean they would come into the team. Weird. I personally didn't understand Burton and Narkle being dropped as they both played pretty well last week and with 5 other outs, it seemed a bit over the top. Lycett in for Hayes seemed to be a big in until you saw that Lycett was underdone and still walking back from the leper colony. Duursma back in was good. You know he still wouldn't be be able to run it out. Maybe it was a week too early but I don't have a problem with him in the team. Seemed to kick short a bit later in the game. The big outs were Dixon and Horne-Francis but they had both been cold lately. Lord for Dixon is like for like. I thought Lord was good except the obvious kicking for goal. Mead in for the Hornet I guess even though he played in the pocket. Mead had a poor game out of position. I was happy to see Burgoyne in. He seemed to be playing on the wing and some down back. Jonas for McKenzie was a titanic disaster and I really thought Bergman would switch after Jonas bled a couple of goals but it wasn't the case.

So there was 3 out injured, 1 for personal reasons, 2 dropped on form.

I guess the question is how many injuries did we have going into the game. McKenzie out. Dixon with Lycett at the leper colony. The Hornet's recent form slump because of a back issue. Lycett at the Club Med Leper Colony but playing. And then the unexpected, Butters with a groin injury which would explain his form of late. Duursma not quite fit for the game. Jonas not quite fit enough for even squashing grapes with his feet. Boak creeping up and slowing down as an old man playing pivotal midfield minutes. Byrne-Jones now on concussion protocols. Did I miss anyone?

Lycett and Dixon get the Club Med Leper Colony treatment. Just hanging on by a thread. For both of those to go through the ruck, man, crazy. It wouldn't surprise me if they both needs wheelchairs later in life. Damn. Seeing them both hobbled on the field can really be hard some times.

With an average midfield who weren't working hard especially backwards, it meant that our defenders had more 1 on 1 and had to play tighter. When we have Rozee, Butters and Horne-Francis tripping the light fantastic in the midfield, the ball comes in randomly and our defenders can play a bit looser and use their skills to rebound the ball but with Rozee, Wines and Boak, the ball was coming in nicley for their forwards. The defenders had to tighten up 20% like a Kardashian but they still want to run off. Bad defending and bad coaching.

Also, Jonas could have cost us 30 to 40 points with his bad play. Yes, if you need a third up spoil, he's not bad but 1 on 1, not the best 2 on 2, also not the best. He was also spoiling other Port players when they had their man covered. Later in the game, he started kicking backwards which we haven't pretty done all year. The Blues went through him like a eager tornado. He also hit the deck a fair bit. His back hit the deck more times than a Parisian prostitute on Bastille Day. I mean, McKenzie is a very smart defender but Jonas is slow as molasses and can't recover his position ever. He can point to where everyone else should go.

Yes, Carlton applied a lot of pressure and ran hard but for mine, the real issue with the game was our midfield. Our midfield went from Rozee, Butters, Horne-Francis and Drew, that is, 2 elite midfielders with the Hornet moving towards elite and Drew the Rock of Gibraltar to average with Rozee, an injured Butters, Wines, Boak and Drew. Only Rozee with the class and the rest, especially Boak and Wines are honest triers in the midfield and cannot kick a ball into the F50 that well. They are just not damaging by foot into the F50.

This is why we use to get huge quarters hung on us when Boak, Wines, Ebert, Rockliff use to be in our midfield. They don't use the ball that well going forward. This is what happened today. History is awesome. We need a couple more elite midfielders coming through. I was laughed at when I suggested Bergman but he would have an impact. I am hoping that Ford Fairlane's description of Hugh Jackson is an understatement. I'd buy some shares in Hugh but FF has taken them all. Wines is best as a 5th banana not a 2nd or 3 banana.

You add Lycett getting beat by De Koning and it all starts to look like before Round 5 last year and the crud we have been serving up before then.

The Blues probably should have beaten us by more. I will say one thing. The boys pretty much kept on playing as hard as they could to the end. Sure, a bit way towards the end was not the best but they stuck to task even when down but when the fat lady starting getting her vocal cords ready, well, fair enough.

We missed a boatload of opportunities in the first half. In my notes, I have 3 in the first quarter and 5 in the second quarter. If we kick half of them, we are a kick in it at the half. I call a missed opportunity a shot at goal that most players should kick.

1. Burgoyne missing Mead who has so alone I thought he had a new strain of covid.
2. Butters kicks a cracker to a leading Lord. Misses a sitter.
3. Duursma kicks a beautiful long ball to a leading Marshall. Misses a sitter.
4. Lord received a free kick directly in front. Hits the post.
5. Lycett wins a free kick from stoppage directly in front. Byrne-Jones plays on and misses Mead who was on an angle anyway.
6. Rozee breaks from stoppage and misses. We will forgive him as he usually kicks most goals.
7. Butters with an amazing handpass to Rozee who sets up Lord to snap an easy goal and misses.
8. Lord in front gets a free kick push in the back. Shanks it.

If we had taken some of our opportunities, we would've been in the game. I'm not bothering with the 2nd half as the game was close to over by then. And I will say they missed plenty of shots too.

Rozee - close to best on ground. Got done for holding the ball a few times but was looking for guys to feed. Excellent game with impact and a couple of goals. Love him.
Butters - hampered by injury but still gold when he gets time and space. Decent when on but rested late.
Drew - good all round game by Drew. Always running back.
Wines - not a lot of impact for 23 possies.
Boak - not a lot of impact for 18 possies and looked a bit cooked.
Duursma - coming back from injury. Did some good things overall and kept working.
Burgoyne - seemed to play on the wing. Average game. I think he has a lot to offer.
Lycett - our rucks are dire and he was outplayed and outrucked by a lesser but younger ruck. I hope he gets his body right for the finals but we might need a priest for that. Did manfully battle on though.

Houston - the most ridiculous game I've ever seen him play. What an absolute star of the game. And to do it in a big loss too. Might get the 10 coaches votes in a losing team.
Farrell - like Houston, played his part even though it was much harder to do than usual.
Aliir - I thought he played very well on the most dangerous forward in the competition. Considering the ball coming down, Curnow got most of his goals late.
Williams - didn't have his usual slice and dice boot on. Don't see his name too often in my notes for bad defending.
Jones - overall in field play Lachie played a pretty strong game, however, in the 2nd, bled at least 3 goals.
Burton - came on late and played his usual style of kicking and hitting targets but allowing some easy goals through.
Jonas - the only impact he had was for the Carlton Blues. He might have been the best forward for the Blues on the day.
Bergman - not the best day and has been down on form recently. Still managed to play hard for the entire game though.

Marshall - did enough on the day. Cannot take a pack mark to save his life all year. Excellent on the lead. Should have been up the ground a bit more this game so his creativity was available for other forwards. Probably our best forward on the day. Needs to do some bench presses.
Lord - If he kicks straight, we are in this game. Constantly worked hard for the ball. Didn't put his head down with his diabolical kicking. Interested to see what another preseason does to him. Bring in Schulz!!!
Finlayson - probably the worst game for the year for Finn.
Byrne-Jones - looked to be playing well until he was concussed. The guy should get weeks.
Powell-Pepper - quiet and tried to bull us to victory but it wasn't nearly enough.
McEntee - the type of player when we lose like this looks very replaceable.
Mead - played out of position and did nothing, probably a negative impact. Wished he played some time in the centre just to see.

The bad news is that we have 4, yes, 4 tough games ahead. We just got to get our guys back healthy for finals.

Collingwood at home is going to be difficult.
The Adelaide Showdown could be a monster and they are always hot.
Geelong down there is always a rare win.
We have the young Giants at home and they are playing pretty good footy.

I hope the coaching staff takes stock with this loss.
Even though it is a loss, we need to know what we are doing for the rest of the year and also for the years to come.

And can someone take out McGovern. We owe him twice over.
 
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Peninsula Boy said:
I'm here to try and unmelt some people but it will be difficult.
I didn't think that Carlton was that good. They have a style they enjoy playing. We were just under with injuries and form.
I don't think the loss is the end of the world but we really know where we stand and where most of our players stand.

I am also happy to blame Josh Carr and not Ken Hinkley for the loss but really we were down on players but in terms of selection and other things, Carr has to be to blame unless Hinkley has wangled his power back. I doubt it so Carr will have to go back to the drawing board and do some real coaching in the next 4 weeks. You can't laud Carr for 13 weeks of wins and then bash Hinkley for the 1 loss.

We have to talk about a few things before we dive in.

I thought we overdid the selections this week. I listened to Hinkley's press conference and he talked about how SANFL form for some guys was really good and it seemed to automatically mean they would come into the team. Weird. I personally didn't understand Burton and Narkle being dropped as they both played pretty well last week and with 5 other outs, it seemed a bit over the top. Lycett in for Hayes seemed to be a big in until you saw that Lycett was underdone and still walking back from the leper colony. Duursma back in was good. You know he still wouldn't be be able to run it out. Maybe it was a week too early but I don't have a problem with him in the team. Seemed to kick short a bit later in the game. The big outs were Dixon and Horne-Francis but they had both been cold lately. Lord for Dixon is like for like. I thought Lord was good except the obvious kicking for goal. Mead in for the Hornet I guess even though he played in the pocket. Mead had a poor game out of position. I was happy to see Burgoyne in. He seemed to be playing on the wing and some down back. Jonas for McKenzie was a titanic disaster and I really thought Bergman would switch after Jonas bled a couple of goals but it wasn't the case.

So there was 3 out injured, 1 for personal reasons, 2 dropped on form.

I guess the question is how many injuries did we have going into the game. McKenzie out. Dixon with Lycett at the leper colony. The Hornet's recent form slump because of a back issue. Lycett at the Club Med Leper Colony but playing. And then the unexpected, Butters with a groin injury which would explain his form of late. Duursma not quite fit for the game. Jonas not quite fit enough for even squashing grapes with his feet. Boak creeping up and slowing down as an old man playing pivotal midfield minutes. Byrne-Jones now on concussion protocols. Did I miss anyone?

Lycett and Dixon get the Club Med Leper Colony treatment. Just hanging on by a thread. For both of those to go through the ruck, man, crazy. It wouldn't surprise me if they both needs wheelchairs later in life. Damn. Seeing them both hobbled on the field can really be hard some times.

With an average midfield who weren't working hard especially backwards, it meant that our defenders had more 1 on 1 and had to play tighter. When we have Rozee, Butters and Horne-Francis tripping the light fantastic in the midfield, the ball comes in randomly and our defenders can play a bit looser and use their skills to rebound the ball but with Rozee, Wines and Boak, the ball was coming in nicley for their forwards. The defenders had to tighten up 20% like a Kardashian but they still want to run off. Bad defending and bad coaching.

Also, Jonas could have cost us 30 to 40 points with his bad play. Yes, if you need a third up spoil, he's not bad but 1 on 1, not the best 2 on 2, also not the best. He was also spoiling other Port players when they had their man covered. Later in the game, he started kicking backwards which we haven't pretty done all year. The Blues went through him like a eager tornado. He also hit the deck a fair bit. His back hit the deck more times than a Parisian prostitute on Bastille Day. I mean, McKenzie is a very smart defender but Jonas is slow as molasses and can't recover his position ever. He can point to where everyone else should go.

Yes, Carlton applied a lot of pressure and ran hard but for mine, the real issue with the game was our midfield. Our midfield went from Rozee, Butters, Horne-Francis and Drew, that is, 2 elite midfielders with the Hornet moving towards elite and Drew the Rock of Gibraltar to average with Rozee, an injured Butters, Wines, Boak and Drew. Only Rozee with the class and the rest, especially Boak and Wines are honest triers in the midfield and cannot kick a ball into the F50 that well. They are just not damaging by foot into the F50.

This is why we use to get huge quarters hung on us when Boak, Wines, Ebert, Rockliff use to be in our midfield. They don't use the ball that well going forward. This is what happened today. History is awesome. We need a couple more elite midfielders coming through. I was laughed at when I suggested Bergman but he would have an impact. I am hoping that Ford Fairlane's description of Hugh Jackson is an understatement. I'd by some shares in Hugh but FF has taken them all. Wines is best as a 5th banana not a 2nd or 3 banana.

You add Lycett getting beat by De Koning and it all starts to look like before Round 5 last year and the crud we have been serving up before then.

The Blues probably should have beaten us by more. I will say one thing. The boys pretty much kept on playing as hard as they could to the end. Sure, a bit way towards the end was not the best but they stuck to task even when down but when the fat lady starting getting her vocal cords ready, well, fair enough.

We missed a boatload of opportunities in the first half. In my notes, I have 3 in the first quarter and 5 in the second quarter. If we kick half of them, we are a kick in it at the half. I call a missed opportunity a shot at goal that most players should kick.

1. Burgoyne missing Mead who has so along I thought he had a new strain of covid.
2. Butters kicks a cracker to a leading Lord. Misses a sitter.
3. Duursma kicks a beautiful long ball to a leading Marshall. Misses a sitter.
4. Lord received a free kick directly in front. Hits the post.
5. Lycett wins a free kick from stoppage directly in front. Byrne-Jones plays on and misses Mead who was on an angle anyway.
6. Rozee breaks from stoppage and misses. We will forgive him as he usually kicks most goals.
7. Butters with an amazing handpass to Rozee who sets up Lord to snap an easy goal and misses.
8. Lord in front gets a free kick push in the back. Shanks it.

If we had taken some of our opportunities, we would've been in the game. I'm not bothering with the 2nd half as the game was close to over by then. And I will say they missed plenty of shots too.

Rozee - close to best on ground. Got done for holding the ball a few times but was looking for guys to feed. Excellent game with impact and a couple of goals. Love him.
Butters - hampered by injury but still gold when he gets time and space. Decent when on but rested late.
Drew - good all round game by Drew. Always running back.
Wines - not a lot of impact for 23 possies.
Boak - not a lot of impact for 18 possies and looked a bit cooked.
Duursma - coming back from injury. Did some good things overall and kept working.
Burgoyne - seemed to play on the wing. Average game. I think he has a lot to offer.
Lycett - our rucks are dire and he was outplayed and outrucked by a lesser but younger ruck. I hope he gets his body right for the finals but we might need a priest for that. Did manfully battle on though.

Houston - the most ridiculous game I've ever seen him play. What an absolute star of the game. And to do it in a big loss too. Might get the 10 coaches votes in a losing team.
Farrell - like Houston, played his part even though it was much harder to do than usual.
Aliir - I thought he played very well on the most dangerous forward in the competition. Considering the ball coming down, Curnow got most of his goals late.
Williams - didn't have his usual slice and dice boot on. Don't see his name too often in my notes for bad defending.
Jones - overall in field play Lachie played a pretty strong game, however, in the 2nd, bled at least 3 goals.
Burton - came on late and played his usual style of kicking and hitting targets but allowing some easy goals through.
Jonas - the only impact he had was for the Carlton Blues. He might have been the best forward for the Blues on the day.
Bergman - not the best day and has been down on form recently. Still managed to play hard for the entire game though.

Marshall - did enough on the day. Cannot take a pack mark to save his life all year. Excellent on the lead. Should have been up the ground a bit more this game so his creativity was available for other forwards. Probably our best forward on the day. Needs to do some bench presses.
Lord - If he kicks straight, we are in this game. Constantly worked hard for the ball. Didn't put his head down with his diabolical kicking. Interested to see what another preseason does to him. Bring in Schulz!!!
Finlayson - probably the worst game for the year for Finn.
Byrne-Jones - looked to be playing well until he was concussed. The guy should get weeks.
Powell-Pepper - quiet and tried to bull us to victory but it wasn't nearly enough.
McEntee - the type of player when we lose like this that look very replaceable.
Mead - played out of position and did nothing, probably a negative impact. Wished he played some time in the centre just to see.

The bad news is that we have 4, yes, 4 tough games ahead. We just got to get our guys back healthy for finals.

Collingwood at home is going to be difficult.
The Adelaide Showdown could be a monster and they are always hot.
Geelong down there is always a rare win.
We have the young Giants at home and they are playing pretty good footy.

I hope the coaching staff takes stock with this loss.
Even though it is a loss, we need to know what we are doing for the rest of the year and also for the years to come.

And can someone take out McGovern. We owe him twice over.
Click to expand...
Good post. You also missed Farrell’s regulation miss in the first quarter.
 
PJ Power said:
Good post. You also missed Farrell’s regulation miss in the first quarter.
Click to expand...

Although that was very gettable for Farrell, I put missed opportunities as the type of easy goal that should be kicked by most. A 45 degree angle,. 40 metres out is not easy but gettable, if you know what I mean so I wouldn't put it down.

As PowerBaz will allude to in the future, we really should nail those early opportunities though.
 
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Chewy316 said:
In basketball there's a term of "helping the helper" - which is a concept that their Port defence has structured its team defence on. That is, when it's time to go and step up, do it wholeheartedly knowing that someone is going to be supporting you to cover in the event that you either make a mistake or that the opposition beats you in the contest.

Jones coming off his man is fine when he's got someone else adding to the contest who will cover for him. However, when Jonas is supposed to be helping the helper, it's akin to having a scarecrow in the middle of the field and the farmer yelling out for them to come inside for a cup of tea.

Jones had a poor game all up, but Jonas completely dismantles the structure of the defence. The game has well and truly passed him by and it is quite frankly embarrassing that neither he nor the coaches have said "time to hang the boots up, mate."
Click to expand...
They both let through a ton of shot on goal that it was hard in my notes to distinguish between Jones and Jonas because their names kinda amalgamated into one J shaped turnstile. But what you said was right. Jonas was horrible in many ways, especially structurally while Jones let a few goals in a row in the second quarter when the Blue got a run on.
 
In the game day thread I said we needed to bump the Spuds that tear us apart and put in Silvangni and Motlop after they had both kicked 4 goals against us. JimmyBC did question if it was fair to call Motlop a spud, and I conceded it was harsh, but he basically averages just under 1 goal a game over his short 20 odd game career before yesterday, and he kicked 3 of his 4 goals in about 5 minutes in the 2nd quarter after he had kicked one in the 1st quarter.

WheeloRatings does an estimated rating per player based on this year's form. You can see that a lot of Carlton players did a lot better than their average ie estimated rating for the year. Wheelo can probably explain how he does the calculation; but the game day Player Rating figure is from Champion Data. Top 2 for Carlton and little over 2.5x their normal rating was Silvagni and Motlop, and most of their 10 players in the top 17 listed below, scored 50%+ better than their estimated rating. Take Motlop out of the spuds and he can be replaced by 2 or 3 other players.

AFL Match Stats

AFL Match Stats
www.wheeloratings.com www.wheeloratings.com


1689485917284.png
 
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Watched what i missed last night like the sadist i am

Jonas has to go. Horrible. Crazy that the backline also looks its most spooked in ages WITH the captain back there

Boak not as bad as people saying

Butters just gets no midfield minutes on the 2nd half? Just cause? Something is up

Bermgan isnt a centre square mid yet

Lord is a typical big man and leans back on his kicks late. Comes from being ****ed aerobically. Nothing that can't be fixed

Duurs nice return game i thought. Scrappy but thats just rust

Hinkley said it in the presser and i agree

Every department was off tonight just enough
 

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