Coach Michael Voss

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JustOneTime said:
I've been here since 2007. Justnetime was my last account but i forgot the login details. I can't remember my previous account 2007-2019 as i left it inactive for 2 years and posted elsewhere.

I agree i targeted a bit hard. When the mods see it I will take heed.

Aside from a bit of rudeness, I'm just happy to differ and im not trying to change your opinion (not for a moment). I'm responding to the points to make alternative views known for others to consider.
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Interesting. Forgot your login but user no longer exists? Disappeared for two years before returning with a bang just after our form turnaround?

Smells a bit off. A cynical person might think there's a bit of posting history you might not want others to read.

Lucky I'm an eternal optimist.
 
Just so happy for Voss. Really deserves the accolades atm unbelievable turn around, I was in the Cant sack him but want to sack him group. Isn’t it funny but at the time when he said nourishment we all wanted to shoot him, now it’s a meme hahaha
 
Azzurro said:
No, 'some' are just calling for balance and perspective.

We have strong leaders in place with the proven capacity to make informed decisions at the right time. By that I mean Cook mostly - side eye to the board under Sayers (cue dramatic interlude).

My opinion still hasn't changed, from the depth of our losing streak to now. Do a review, generate the strategy, execute on the key findings.

We are supporters so it's fine to be upset, even irrational during games. But after the white line fever subsided, many were blatantly ignoring the direct words of the man coaching us (a man of integrity who was beingvery transparent and clearly hurting too) to push their point that his time had come.

It's hard to read and hear this steady stream of negativity. It's not harmless, it all adds to the noise and enough noise can sway opinions. Glad the club is wiser and stronger now and avoided another disastrous knee jerk.

And for me, those people calling for his head don't get to simply walk back their position as it was so clearly wrong at the time. It also makes it hard for me to trust their capacity to engage with any value on other discussions.

Hence why I've flagged before that I'd like to be able to flag/tag posters - I don't ignore anyone, but I'd like a visual reminder that I've found someone's opinion on something questionable in the past. I could never remember all the forum names of those I have doubts about (not all posts are as memorable as earl's pearls and not all reglowers is spuds) so it would be great functionality to add IMO.
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I am more than a little over the point scoring crap going on in this thread.

You could count on one hand the posters with a heavy, irrational agenda against Voss. Many, in a variety of ways called out his and the club’s performance over a six or so week period. The last six weeks have somewhat vindicated their questions, yet there are posters trying to point score now we have righted the ship.

The last six weeks prove beyond doubt that something “sinister” had infected the playing group and match day staff. We have finals, even premiership credentials THIS YEAR. The disconnect was totally irrational and had simple origins, which have been done to death in recent times. The coaching group, ultimately the head coach is responsible for the performance of the group. Whether fire and brimstone, cajoling, downright pocket pi55ing, they are charged with motivating the playing group. As they are charged with providing workable structure and method to maximise output.

Clearly this was not happening, and something had to give. The obvious target was the bloke calling the shots. Posters and supporters should not be attacked for offering opinions. I consider myself a balanced and informed poster. I did not “hate” Vossy, I did not wish him gone. I did suggest that a group with so much talent should not have the disconnect that had permeated our in field performance. I did suggest that the ultimate responsibility lies with Michael Voss. I did suggest change was required if we continued to perform so ridiculously poorly.

I tend to think that the turn around was player led. Perhaps it came from the coaching group, perhaps from Brian Cook’s years of experience and mentorship. Outside of the walls, none of us can categorically state what was the catalyst.

Let’s embrace that the catalyst came. Recognise that all parties are on the same page and can be rightly called a team, a very potent one. Enjoy the ride, embrace the players, coaches and management.

We are all entitled to our opinions. Admittedly some are quite challenging on both sides of discussions. Can we just embrace where we are now and discontinue the incessant blame game and point scoring attempts.
 
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Azzurro said:
No, 'some' are just calling for balance and perspective.

We have strong leaders in place with the proven capacity to make informed decisions at the right time. By that I mean Cook mostly - side eye to the board under Sayers (cue dramatic interlude).

My opinion still hasn't changed, from the depth of our losing streak to now. Do a review, generate the strategy, execute on the key findings.

We are supporters so it's fine to be upset, even irrational during games. But after the white line fever subsided, many were blatantly ignoring the direct words of the man coaching us (a man of integrity who was beingvery transparent and clearly hurting too) to push their point that his time had come.

It's hard to read and hear this steady stream of negativity. It's not harmless, it all adds to the noise and enough noise can sway opinions. Glad the club is wiser and stronger now and avoided another disastrous knee jerk.

And for me, those people calling for his head don't get to simply walk back their position as it was so clearly wrong at the time. It also makes it hard for me to trust their capacity to engage with any value on other discussions.

Hence why I've flagged before that I'd like to be able to flag/tag posters - I don't ignore anyone, but I'd like a visual reminder that I've found someone's opinion on something questionable in the past. I could never remember all the forum names of those I have doubts about (not all posts are as memorable as earl's pearls and not all reglowers is spuds) so it would be great functionality to add IMO.
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It’s easy to have a revisionist view and categorise posters as either black or white.
I agree that those who just wanted Voss sacked without providing an argument or thinking about the context of our history and changes we’ve made in the organisation we’re doing so largely out of frustration.
But it’s naive to think that Voss was beyond criticism and deserved to be backed without question.
The nuance of debate often gets lost when the pressure is on. Any amount of tagging/flagging would be entirely subjective and only serve as a tool to bully those who don’t share the view of the minority of posters (not referencing you here btw) who think their view is the only one which matters.
 
1/We still turn it over instead of dead balling.
2/Paddy Dow has never touched another person ever in his life, just talented but scarred of his own shadow.
3/ Pies were terrible in front of goal
4/Love the club, but am realistic.
5/And yes, still think we are a chance, pre season picked a Carlton/Port gf.
 
Sqotty from office works said:
1/We still turn it over instead of dead balling.
2/Paddy Dow has never touched another person ever in his life, just talented but scarred of his own shadow.
3/ Pies were terrible in front of goal
4/Love the club, but am realistic.
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That's a really poor take, especially point 2
 
Azzurro said:
No. The expectations are the problem, and that was a choice people made - to believe that this team, full of players that have never made the finals, who couldn't finish the job last year despite it being within reach, would make the finals. On what basis does anyone have a right to expect that? Hope for it, long for it... sure, me too. But expect it on what basis?

Once they've made finals regularly we might then start expecting. Looks like things are clicking at the right time and we have the best chance in years of getting there. Going to savour it if we do. So keen for Cripps to get a crack in September.
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Expectations were realistic.

There were many of those supporting Voss who told us the list wasn't good enough. :tearsofjoy: It works both ways.

Onwards and upwards, Vossy is the man.
 
bigblueboy said:
It’s easy to have a revisionist view and categorise posters as either black or white.
I agree that those who just wanted Voss sacked without providing an argument or thinking about the context of our history and changes we’ve made in the organisation we’re doing so largely out of frustration.
But it’s naive to think that Voss was beyond criticism and deserved to be backed without question.
The nuance of debate often gets lost when the pressure is on. Any amount of tagging/flagging would be entirely subjective and only serve as a tool to bully those who don’t share the view of the minority of posters (not referencing you here btw) who think their view is the only one that matters.
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Agree about nuance, I live by design in the grey. Definitely not talking about revisionism, and not saying for the mods to do the flagging - that's some totalitarian stuff right there! Rather I want that capability for myself as a user, to be visible only to myself as the user. There's no faces on here and so many posters it's hard to keep track, so it would be helpful to be alerted by a "flag" I could apply (visible only to myself next to the user name for instance) that this is a potential troll poster, or a black and white my way or the highway poster, or a hardline Voss hater, or a Malthouse fanboi (does this even exist? Haha). Selfishly, this functionality would save me overly investing time and effort in reading and responding to specific content from people whose views I consider suspect about a particular topic, without ignoring the poster completely because... that's just a rubbish approach to life.

My position is to never have blind trust nor blind distrust. I was in agony like the rest of us and couldn't stand watching our games at the time. But sorry, even someone providing a reason why Voss should be sacked at the time, is part of the exact problem I'm referring to - often rooted in unfounded expectations that we should expect this team of finals virgins to automatically make the finals, and if we don't we look first to the head coach.

Evidence showed we were playing shit footy, and evidence informed us Voss was working with the team to turn it around, but people chose the easy reactive path instead of the stoic and measured path. Footy departments in a team sport are in whole much more than the sum of their parts, no matter how important some parts seem.
 
Show_Me_The_Money said:
Expectations were realistic.

There were many of those supporting Voss who told us the list wasn't good enough. :tearsofjoy: It works both ways.

Onwards and upwards, Vossy is the man.
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Expectations were not supported by any evidence. The individuals are talented but the team had not put it together confidently enough for long enough.

He's the man, or he's the man for now until we inevitably go through a form slump again in this highly competitive industry bursting with talented people with money who hate losing?
 
Azzurro said:
Expectations were not supported by any evidence. The individuals are talented but the team had not put it together confidently enough for long enough.

He's the man, or he's the man for now until we inevitably go through a form slump again in this highly competitive industry bursting with talented people with money who hate losing?
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I cant see him losing the plot from here. He and the MC were the cause of the slump with attempt to change the gameplan. It takes a lot to acknowledge and then turn that around midseason and Voss has done that. He has my full support.
 

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Show_Me_The_Money said:
I cant see him losing the plot from here. He and the MC were the cause of the slump with attempt to change the gameplan. It takes a lot to acknowledge and then turn that around midseason and Voss has done that. He has my full support.
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I think the team have clicked, based on what he was saying in the presser about their steely resolve at 3q time. He has my support too for the same reason, unless a post season review by the footy department says otherwise. People are all supporting him now that we are winning. Easy to do. I see you posted similarly to me during the losing streak, so think we are on the same page about this.
 
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Coona Blues said:
I am more than a little over the point scoring crap going on in this thread.

You could count on one hand the posters with a heavy, irrational agenda against Voss. Many, in a variety of ways called out his and the club’s performance over a six or so week period. The last six weeks have somewhat vindicated their questions, yet there are posters trying to point score now we have righted the ship.

The last six weeks prove beyond doubt that something “sinister” had infected the playing group and match day staff. We have finals, even premiership credentials THIS YEAR. The disconnect was totally irrational and had simple origins, which have been done to death in recent times. The coaching group, ultimately the head coach is responsible for the performance of the group. Whether fire and brimstone, cajoling, downright pocket pi55ing, they are charged with motivating the playing group. As they are charged with providing workable structure and method to maximise output.

Clearly this was not happening, and something had to give. The obvious target was the bloke calling the shots. Posters and supporters should not be attacked for offering opinions. I consider myself a balanced and informed poster. I did not “hate” Vossy, I did not wish him gone. I did suggest that a group with so much talent should not have the disconnect that had permeated our in field performance. I did suggest that the ultimate responsibility lies with Michael Voss. I did suggest change was required if we continued to perform so ridiculously poorly.

I tend to think that the turn around was player led. Perhaps it came from the playing group, perhaps from Brian Cook’s years of experience and mentorship. Outside of the walls, nine of us can categorically state what was the catalyst.

Let’s embrace that the catalyst came. Recognise that all parties are on the same page and can be rightly called a team, a very potent one. Enjoy the ride, embrace the players, coaches and management.

We are all entitled to our opinions. Admittedly some are quite challenging on both sides of discussions. Can we just embrace where we are now and discontinue the incessant blame game and point scoring attempts.
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Not aiming for point scoring - FWIW I was saying keep until after a post season review, not immediately sack nor immediately keep.

Personally, my enjoyment of this place was severely hampered by some of the rubbish opinions I had to sift through during that time. It was not a place of solace - it was filled with pages of emotive and ill-founded views with no way to easily differentiate without wasting time reading every word.

Keen to remind people that I don't think it's fair on others, and certainly not healthy, to add oxygen to the fire.
 
I think we get too caught up in the moment when it comes to sacking coaches. Usually it's complicated and I like to give coaches a chance to turn it around. He was 30 games into coaching Carlton....he always needed more time to turn it around with the group. Even if we didn't have a resurgence of this nature I still thought he should have been given next year to improve. Glad it has turned around.....seems like a lovely bloke. I can see why the players love him
 
I thought last night was one of the best-coached games from a Carlton coach in a long time.

To start with, the structure and system held up incredibly well against top of the ladder despite 6 changes for the match. Not easy, but how good was our defence - both the individual players and the way the team ran back to support. Acres and Hollands may need the full 9 days to recover...

And then to stare down Collingwood's last quarter surge so decisively. Tactically, we made a clear change and went heavily man on man. That meant backing the players in: backing Hollands against Sidebottom on the wing (he held up), backing Dow against Taylor Adams at center bounces (he trounced him), backing the mobile defence to cover the ground needed against their runners. It was ballsy, but also exactly how to beat Collingwood (

it just highlighted that the recipe to defeating a team that relies on coming from behind in the last quarter is just to beat them for contested footy in the last quarter, but no-one else has been able to do it for 12 months). After the first bounce of the last quarter we had 3 straight where we just won the footy, moved it forward and quashed their win. Cripps bulldozed his way to the first one, but it was Dow on the second and third that got to the ball and that was really important.
 
btdg said:
I thought last night was one of the best-coached games from a Carlton coach in a long time.

To start with, the structure and system held up incredibly well against top of the ladder despite 6 changes for the match. Not easy, but how good was our defence - both the individual players and the way the team ran back to support. Acres and Hollands may need the full 9 days to recover...

And then to stare down Collingwood's last quarter surge so decisively. Tactically, we made a clear change and went heavily man on man. That meant backing the players in: backing Hollands against Sidebottom on the wing (he held up), backing Dow against Taylor Adams at center bounces (he trounced him), backing the mobile defence to cover the ground needed against their runners. It was ballsy, but also exactly how to beat Collingwood (

it just highlighted that the recipe to defeating a team that relies on coming from behind in the last quarter is just to beat them for contested footy in the last quarter, but no-one else has been able to do it for 12 months). After the first bounce of the last quarter we had 3 straight where we just won the footy, moved it forward and quashed their win. Cripps bulldozed his way to the first one, but it was Dow on the second and third that got to the ball and that was really important.
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Yeah, couldn't believe how well we rolled back to defend and shut down their run, even when we made turnovers and it looked like they were away.

To concede some ground to the 'intent not gameplan' crew, I thought it was clearly the case last night, moreso than the other wins. Gameplan and risk taking elements were still there - Fox had a good lab segment on the play in the 3rd quarter where coming off half back we ignored the short easy chip to someone on the boundary in favour of a semi-risky handball inboard to Saad, then worked through the middle and out the fat side with overlap to eventually hit a leading Martin. But that win was down to frenetic pressure for 4 quarters, not letting the ball through and sticking tackles, really impressive to see.
 
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Really pleased that voss has had a remarkable turn around with the carlton players/team. Did the hard yards and became senior assistant at the power and further developed his skills set for the job of senior coach. My stance is support your team and coach in my case ken hinkley and enjoy the successes when they come. Congrats michael voss
 
bigblueboy said:
Weitering on SEN talked about the 1:1 leaders had with Voss during the losing streak.
Said he “didn’t like it” - referring to receiving feedback on his form but that it sparked a rethink of team focus in defence.

Weitering offers insight into one of footy's biggest questions

“Vossy, he certainly led the way with the conversations.”
www.sen.com.au www.sen.com.au
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So Voss had a chat to underpeforming leaders and players did he? Did Weitering just admit to the shortcomings of the polayers peformance did he? ANy mention of lack of game plan or lack of selection integrity? How about a too complicated game plan or lack of game plan ABCDE&G?

Oh none of the stuff being posted on here by people who listen to 'radio' for 'expert' commentary?

hmm amazing.
 
Michael Jezz said:
Good coaches get the list into contention but do not guarantee premierships. Voss will lead us to a sustainable period in the top 4.
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Yep - ultimately it is the players that win or lose games - it is the coach's job to show the players how to win games and why they lost games.
 
gbatman said:
What ever reset we had 6 weeks ago sure has worked. Been saying we have had the list all year and could not get why we were playing as poorly as we have. Really good to see it turned around.
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Have a listen to Voss' post-match conference and I think you will get some clues as to what was instrumental in turning our season around.

He said that there were tough conversations held among the coaching group, also between the leaders and the playing group, as well as between the coaches and the team leaders.

There would be nobody more qualified than him to be able to address issues in leadership and let them know what is required. He has walked the walk and the players know that, makes a difference when a coach has that experience.

It helps also to have somebody like Cook to oversee what's happening, he's been there before and would be a strong guiding hand in times of trouble.

I think that we are better set in terms of coaching, players and administration than we have been in decades. The future looks good as long as everybody continues to work together as they obviously are now. No discernible factions within the club, we are seeing unity for the first time in a very long time.
 

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Coach Michael Voss

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