Moved Thread Adrian Dodoro - Lodged a dispute with FairWork. Paid out. Gone. #putoutyourjackets

[TheGreatBarryB]

I think the thing that frustrates me in the media is big Essendon people, such as Robbo, Lloyd and Watson will s**t on the club from great heights and rightly so.

But they are just so spineless when it comes to this bloke. There is no way they would remain silent if a list boss, winless in finals for 20 years, was at 17 of other clubs.

But with Dodoro, every time his name is brought up, side step, duck, dodge and weave. Which leads me to think they don’t actually give a s**t about the club. They care more about connections. Which someone would confront one of these blokes about it.

Robbo is so far up the Hird/Sheeds/Dodo triumvirate’s arse he can’t see daylight and just attacks the why-isn’t-it-Hird coach. Assume Watson and Lloyd too scared to upset Sheeds

 

[lenny2013]

I wonder if our list management team has a plan to recruit some players with leadership qualities?

 

[Lore]

I would argue we prioritise neither.

We continually draft players who either lack any outstanding physical traits or have one but are deficient in others.

Other clubs all seem to have legions of tall, strong players with well rounded running ability (speed and endurance).

I was going to look it all up for you but turns out eDPS already did, back in 2021, and found that every player we'd taken in the top 40 since 2014 rated in the top 10 of the athleticism tests at the draft combine.... EXCEPT FOR DARCY PARISH.

Athleticism is very important in modern football, with players quicker and bigger than what most talented youngsters are used to at the development levels. One club which has seemingly identified this in modern times is the fast-rising Essendon Football Club.

Since 2014, Essendon seems to have had a clear strategy with the types of players they have looked at with their high picks. Below is a list of the Bombers’ top 40 selections since 2014 and which tests those players excelled at. In a lot of cases, they were top 10 in those tests at the end-of-year combine.

2014:
Pick 17 – Jayden Laverde (Didn’t test but athleticism was a highlight of his game)
Pick 20 – Kyle Langford Agility

2015:
Pick 5 – Darcy Parish Average in most tests
Pick 6 – Aaron Francis (Didn’t test but like Laverde, athleticism was a highlight in games)
Pick 29 – Alex Morgan (Since delisted) 20m Sprint, Vertical Leap, Agility
Pick 30 – Mason Redman 3km time trial

2016:
Pick 1 – Andrew McGrath Vertical Leap, Agility
Pick 20 – Jordan Ridley 20m Sprint

2017:
Nil

2018:
Pick 38 – Irving Mosquito Vertical Leap

2019:
Pick 30 – Harrison Jones Vertical Leap, Yo-Yo, 20m Sprint
Pick 38 – Nick Bryan Vertical Leap, 20m Sprint

2020:
Pick 8 – Nik Cox 20m Sprint, 2km TT
Pick 9 – Archie Perkins 20m Sprint, Vertical Leap
Pick 10 – Zach Reid Vertical Leap
Pick 39 – Josh Eyre 20m Sprint, Vertical Leap

There is one big outlier here and that’s one of this year’s Brownlow contenders in Darcy Parish, who was only average in test results during his draft year. This could be seen as the biggest clue as to why athletic testing shouldn’t be so important, but it can also be argued that one of the main reasons for Parish’s form is due to improving his running capacity to an elite level.

Even their most recent mid-season selection, Sam Durham tested well for vertical leap and endurance, so its no surprise at least in Essendon’s case that athletic traits are a huge influence in whether the player gets taken.

The current favourite for the Rising Star, Nik Cox has taken the competition by storm with his mix of athleticism and height, with that height another factor in the early Essendon selections. It was a matter of time before Cox got his nomination for the Rising Star award and in retrospect, we should have all seen his selection by Essendon coming considering all the traits he possesses are key indicators in the Bombers’ recent draft strategy.

Using this history, we can even try to narrow down the possible field of players that Essendon will look at with its first round pick in 2021...

Analysis | The importance of fitness testing in modern football recruiting

THERE has been plenty of debate when talking about potential AFL prospects pertaining to the differences between judging ‘athletes’ against ‘pure footballers’. There is an argument that fitness testing should be taken with a grain of salt and that the eye test is most important, but when it...

central.rookieme.com

2017 we didn't draft because we got Smith, Saad and Stringer... whose combine test results looked like this (many moons ago):

Devon Smith Vertical Leap, Repeat Sprints, Beep Test​

Adam Saad Vertical Leap, 20m Sprint​

Jake Stringer broken leg impacted running (link)​

2018 we got Shiel which also impacted the 2019 draft...

Dylan Shiel (mini-draft, can't find any results)​

2019 we got Caldwell, who is Shiel mk 2 but with recurring hamstring injuries. combine results impacted with injury but his pre-season results;

Jye Caldwell pre-season testing: 20m Sprint, Agility, Yo-Yo​

​

​

I spy a theme...

 

[Zach Package]

Lore can you churn out unique All Australians rather than total?

Without reviewing the numbers at face value I would say we have a lot of individual players that have had one or two amazing years but been unable to sustain, which would loop back to that strength and conditioning concern.

Whereas other clubs have potentially had the same amount of all aus players but they make teams 3,4,5,6 times.

 

[IggypopsTshirt]

I wonder if our list management team has a plan to recruit some players with leadership qualities?

Nah yeah nah moite we’ve got all the leadership we need in ol’ knackers Heppell. 13 years in the system without a single morsel of anything that could be considered success but he’s an 8 time “best clubman”

 

[ant555]

Nah yeah nah moite we’ve got all the leadership we need in ol’ knackers Heppell. 13 years in the system without a single morsel of anything that could be considered success but he’s an 8 time “best clubman”

Seven

 

[Lore]

Lore can you churn out unique All Australians rather than total?

Without reviewing the numbers at face value I would say we have a lot of individual players that have had one or two amazing years but been unable to sustain, which would loop back to that strength and conditioning concern.

Whereas other clubs have potentially had the same amount of all aus players but they make teams 3,4,5,6 times.

from what data set? clubs/years

wouldn't be all that hard I imagine

 

[Zach Package]

from what data set? clubs/years

wouldn't be all that hard I imagine

My mistake, I thought one of those scatter plots a couple of pages back was AA selections.

Think it’s worth investigating myself

 

[Lore]

My mistake, I thought one of those scatter plots a couple of pages back was AA selections.

Think it’s worth investigating myself

it kind of is AA selections, the one that 'counts characters in the award field' includes AA, Brownlow, Rising Star, AFLPA best 1st year player, premierships, Crichton and maybe 1-2 other things

If I put in a column with a formula that returns true if the letters "AA" are in the award field it would probably count that for us, wouldn't be difficult at all

 

[Vander18]

I was going to look it all up for you but turns out eDPS already did, back in 2021, and found that every player we'd taken in the top 40 since 2014 rated in the top 10 of the athleticism tests at the draft combine.... EXCEPT FOR DARCY PARISH.

Analysis | The importance of fitness testing in modern football recruiting

THERE has been plenty of debate when talking about potential AFL prospects pertaining to the differences between judging ‘athletes’ against ‘pure footballers’. There is an argument that fitness testing should be taken with a grain of salt and that the eye test is most important, but when it...

central.rookieme.com

2017 we didn't draft because we got Smith, Saad and Stringer... whose combine test results looked like this (many moons ago):

Devon Smith Vertical Leap, Repeat Sprints, Beep Test​

Adam Saad Vertical Leap, 20m Sprint​

Jake Stringer broken leg impacted running (link)​

2018 we got Shiel which also impacted the 2019 draft...

Dylan Shiel (mini-draft, can't find any results)​

2019 we got Caldwell, who is Shiel mk 2 but with recurring hamstring injuries. combine results impacted with injury but his pre-season results;

Jye Caldwell pre-season testing: 20m Sprint, Agility, Yo-Yo​

​

​

I spy a theme...

You are very diligent!

Interesting reading…..the first thing that springs to mind is why has none of this translated to game day at AFL level???

I think the answer is that being top 10 at combine testing doesn’t equate to elite at AFL level. You could finish say 7-10 for 2km (or whatever) in a given draft year but not be top 100 in the AFL.

I also think balance is really important…..ideally you find athletes who combine speed and endurance with a big, strong frame. How many of these have we had over the years? Redman, Langford, Durham and Perkins off the top of my head (from todays list) probably fit this description. McKenna was a genuinely high quality runner in a strong body. It’d be hard to argue that running ability and strength haven’t been issues across our playing list for years now.

Maybe we have tried to prioritise athleticism just haven’t had the IP in terms of the kind of profile we should be looking for. That’s how it feels to me. Always have this sense that Geelong, Sydney, Collingwood et al know something we don’t when it comes to this stuff.

 

[Lore]

Zach Package as far as charts go it looks kinda weird



might need to summarise as a percentage or something, lemme see

 

[Here_we_come]

Lore can you churn out unique All Australians rather than total?

Without reviewing the numbers at face value I would say we have a lot of individual players that have had one or two amazing years but been unable to sustain, which would loop back to that strength and conditioning concern.

Whereas other clubs have potentially had the same amount of all aus players but they make teams 3,4,5,6 times.

Individual AA players really is a pretty meaningless statistic. Much more important is the overall number of AA selections.

Also, it's not just about strength of conditioning that gets a player to multiple AAs. The biggest factor is the quality of the player.

For example, Martin and Rance made AA 5 times each, whereas Edwards, Houli, and Vlastuin made AA once each. Clearly, the former are better players, hence the higher number of AAs.

The same principle generally applies across all clubs. The players with the most AAs are generally freakish players who we've not had since Hird/Lloyd et al.

 

[Lore]

Maybe we have tried to prioritise athleticism just haven’t had the IP in terms of the kind of profile we should be looking for. That’s how it feels to me. Always have this sense that Geelong, Sydney, Collingwood et al know something we don’t when it comes to this stuff.

dingdingding we have a winner

 

[Lore]

Individual AA players really is a pretty meaningless statistic. Much more important is the overall number of AA selections.

Also, it's not just about strength of conditioning that gets a player to multiple AAs. The biggest factor is the quality of the player.

For example, Martin and Rance made AA 5 times each, whereas Edwards, Houli, and Vlastuin made AA once each. Clearly, the former are better players, hence the higher number of AAs.

The same principle generally applies across all clubs. The players with the most AAs are generally freakish players who we've not had since Hird/Lloyd et al.

the biggest factor is playing 23 games in a 24 round season whether through selection or fitness, not playing games doesn't give you much hope.

 

[Here_we_come]

huh? I think it's fairly obvious players need to actually play to be selected.

But merely being on the field is not as important as having good games/seasons. Edwards, Houli, Vlastuin, as examples, all have a higher average games played than Rance/Martin, yet the former have 3 AA selections and the latter have 10.

 

[Zach Package]

Individual AA players really is a pretty meaningless statistic. Much more important is the overall number of AA selections.

Also, it's not just about strength of conditioning that gets a player to multiple AAs. The biggest factor is the quality of the player.

For example, Martin and Rance made AA 5 times each, whereas Edwards, Houli, and Vlastuin made AA once each. Clearly, the former are better players, hence the higher number of AAs.

The same principle generally applies across all clubs. The players with the most AAs are generally freakish players who we've not had since Hird/Lloyd et al.

I would argue it’s actually the opposite, if we for example find 10 AA players but they only make one side each it’s an indictment on our ability to keep them fit, hard and competing deep into their career.

Our blokes are completely and utterly done at 30.

Keeping in mind this is the Dororo thread, I don’t think we should be questioning his ability to find them, but once he gets them in it’s on everyone else to get them jacked, fit, keep them that way and put them in positions to succeed on the field.

 

[DonsRule]

 

[Runk]

All the best to James. Gotta feel for him to be honest.

 

[citizen-erased]

Maybe we have tried to prioritise athleticism just haven’t had the IP in terms of the kind of profile we should be looking for. That’s how it feels to me. Always have this sense that Geelong, Sydney, Collingwood et al know something we don’t when it comes to this stuff.

Can i add that i feel it stops when they're drafted to us

there's U18 performance levels, then many rungs up is the ability to meaningfully run out an AFL season.
Some of it physical develop, some of it mental. But i also think you need to be drafting the kids with both the physical attributes and mental resilience to develop.

we have far too many who give up when their opponent doesn't.

 

[Here_we_come]

I would argue it’s actually the opposite, if we for example find 10 AA players but they only make one side each it’s an indictment on our ability to keep them fit, hard and competing deep into their career.

Our blokes are completely and utterly done at 30.

Keeping in mind this is the Dororo thread, I don’t think we should be questioning his ability to find them, but once he gets them in it’s on everyone else to get them jacked, fit, keep them that way and put them in positions to succeed on the field.

the argument doesn't stack up once you start applying it to other teams.

See my previous post as an example. Are you suggesting that the main factor that determined multiple AAs for Martin/Rance is that they were able to stay fitter than players who were in the same side but only achieved 1 AA? The single AA players often reach a similar number of games played.

The same can be done for any team, like Geelong, Collingwood, etc. As another example, Dangerfield (4 Geelong AAs), Enright (6 AAs), Selwood (5 AAs) are generally better players than players who achieved AA once, like Mackie, ling, James Kelly et al despite the fact that the latter also played a lot of games. There's a massive difference in the quality of the players.

 

[SpeckieMcVeigh]

Zach Package as far as charts go it looks kinda weird

View attachment 1783985

might need to summarise as a percentage or something, lemme see

Is this done in Tableau Public? Wouldn't mind having a play with the data set.

 

[Lore]

Club B&F winners. Every club has at least one B&F winner each year, but it could be won by the same person multiple times, or by someone who was acquired via trade, both of which would result in a smaller proportion of blue on the graph:


AA team selection:


AA squad selection:


Brownlow medalists:


Coleman winners:


Rising Stars:


Premiership Players:




Also notable that all of this is indexed against the draft club, so if Dangerfield was drafted after 2008 he would be listed as a premiership player who was drafted by Adelaide.

 

[Lore]

Is this done in Tableau Public? Wouldn't mind having a play with the data set.

Nah, I have a google sheet and pulled all the data off draft guru with a datascrape

It's not very pretty but you can make a copy for yourself if you copy and paste the link;

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UJlnIK7RQ9CgB3sRZQ5-mffIFMRhmrQu8kJnq48YrWw/edit#gid=0

 

[Zach Package]

the argument doesn't stack up once you start applying it to other teams.

See my previous post as an example. Are you suggesting that the main factor that determined multiple AAs for Martin/Rance is that they were able to stay fitter than players who were in the same side but only achieved 1 AA? The single AA players often reach a similar number of games played.

Consider Hurley and Hooker in comparison to Rance. Rance is certainly the better player but the primary reason that Hurley and Hooker (who were the other two preeminent big daddy key backs of that era) didn’t stack up more genuinely great seasons is because we catastrophically mismanaged them through a combination of a doping scandal, playing them out of position and not keeping them fit and healthy.

 

[Schnitzengruben]