Autopsy Round 10, 2024: St.Kilda v Fremantle

[Diehard Saint]

Once upon a time I used to be down when we lost.
Absolutely no emotion tonight, basically couldn't care less.
Feel nothing for this nothing club, with its nothing culture, zero values. If the players don't care, why should we?
This is more disappointing than 2021.



On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

This. Exactly.

 

[tomjoad]

I watched the first quarter. I could already see what was going to happen. I turned off the T.V. grabbed the Mrs. And the kids and went to a viking festival. The backdrop was lovely castle, I played with the kids and bought wooden axes, swords and shields, and had a great day. The sun shone. I had a Guinness, and then got ice creams on the way home.

I have to say though that I do worry about the mental stability of some of these reenactment types, some of them take it all far too seriously and really do believe that they ARE vikings. I guess it's not that different though from St.Kilda players thinking that they can play football.... it's all just make believe.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

That last quarter and a half was the equivalent of having a forced wank on stage in front of 20,000 people ....just fckn embarrassing

 

[sasaint]

We kicked 2 goals within the first 10 minutes or so, then 6 more for the rest of the game. Midfield is bloody sparse. We do some dumb s**t too, chip it around in our backline then give it to our ruckman to take the exit kick. Lot of hospital handballs. Lot of broken tackles.

Also I never usually criticise coaching because you never know what the players are told as opposed to how they execute, but heck me Paton as a forward for 85% of this game? WTF were they thinking? We DROPPED Hayes, Garcia and Hastie and brought in Paton to run around like a headless chook in the forward line. SURELY Hayes is better as a forward even if he's less mobile, he has genuine forward craft and is a decent 2nd ruck. We bring in Jones and Phillipou (let's be honest Jones time as an AFL footballer is done, he's depth) then play Phillipou on ball where he cannot get a touch and was struggling before getting dropped, then at the end of the game throw him forward and he actually kicks a goal and presents at 2 marking contests well (unlucky not to get paid one mark/in the back at a contest), WTF is the logic in persisting with him at stoppages when he's not showing promise as a mid but has shown promise as a forward? Honestly setting ourselves up for failure.

Some real questionable coaching and selection decisions.

Agree with your assessment on selection. I don’t like conspiracy theory but blind Freddy could tell that Pou wasn’t going to miraculously become a first 22 midfielder after one game in the magoos and that Paton wasn’t the best available small forward. However getting your pick in the mid season draft and getting a class mid in the end of year draft may justify playing rookies for development and some players out of position. I still remember how the Cats drafted Joel Selwood by a surprising bad season, and built a dynasty that won multiple flags. Just had to play the long game.

 

[sasaint]

How was Steele's leadership. Top effort.

You need triggers to make changes. IMO Wilke looks like the most natural leader.The club can’t make the change mid season but I’d guess it was a good chance for next year.

 

[StCicatriz]

Jack Steele

9

Jack Steele

Age

28

Ht

187cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.9

5star

K

8.7

3star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

6.8

5star

CL

3.6

5star

D

21.3

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

11.3

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

5.8

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

16.8

4star

K

5.0

2star

HB

11.8

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

6.4

5star

CL

3.6

5star

one of the worst captains we’ve ever had, there i said it, body language is pathetic when we’re losing and communicates like Mr. Bean on the field with no voice at all.

spot on

Communicates like a high schooler

 

[Xxxx66]

Okay, my take outs:

- Whose putrid decision was it for Steele to tag Fyfe? He’s not even their best mid and there’s relatively minimal benefit in this match up.

- Owens and King didn’t stop trying, could’ve had Curnow and McKay tonight and still wouldn’t have made any difference.

- It’s becoming an increasingly restrictive game style with Ross. I get that we want to remain competitive while building, particularly given state of the list, but won’t win anything with this brand of footy. Something has to change.

- I think this contested brand of footy leads to a lot of skill errors, due to playing out of congestion and an exhaustion friendly style.

- Too many short kicks out of D50, mostly lateral or at angles, with minimal territory gain which just invites unnecessary pressure.

- First game of the year I can remember really being smashed at stoppages. We looked a better side when at least breaking even, being more comfortable moving the ball quickly for territory.

- Dow was impressive in his first game back. Pou really needs a spell in the VFL, similar to Windy last year. Can’t play Pou, Lance and Paton together.

- I feel for Marshall, top 3 ruck in the AFL, arguably best on his day, and continues to toil himself for this god forsaken mob. Chuck Wilkie in there too.

Very balanced

 

[Xxxx66]

Love our Rowan, but his game contrasted so much with Jackson’s. I feel like we’ve allowed him to develop some bad habits.

Windy is going to learn similarly bad habits if we don’t get him to be more proactive when he wins the ball.

That last Centre Bounce though, win the contest, handball to a centre who hits a back man on the burst (Naz) it’s a radically different look from the old swivel kick.

I honestly can’t see why we are persisting with Jones. Offers nothing in the modern game. I honestly see more in Phillipou and Collard.

We would be better off with Seb ahead of him, but I’d rather Hugo continues to get opportunities.

Max was much better today. Is that because Caminiti is there?

I guess this is what non linear development feels like to supporters. If you go to the Cats thread by the way they are lamenting their midfield the same way we do.

Go Saints.

Nah, Max looked to be moving more freely. He's harder to play against when he runs and jumps. Last night delivery was just so ordinary

 

[saintron]

Everybody is blaming Ross tell me who else is out there that is a good coach that we could get. Look at nth melb they got the meisiah clarkson look where they are. Nathan Burke said it on radio last night ross inherited a shit team thanks to previous coaches etc he has a plan

 

[Xxxx66]

Last rant

When the welcome to country was happening, the amount of members completely ignoring it did my head in. Some even with their back to the ground just chatting away.

Complete lack of respect for what this round is about.

I actually thought the opposite. Was a nice touch.

 

[stfan]

Look there were many bad aspects to today's game ( Pou having been brought back in to play yet another shocker, strange match ups, etc), but the biggest problem today for mine is the simple skill of actually being able to gain the ball cleanly was lacking from the majority of our players.

Time, and time again, simple gathers were not done. Players fumbled, or did not gain possession at all. Freo were much cleaner.

I think at present that a lot of players are mentally shot, they are too busy worrying about things to just instinctively get the ball cleanly and play on.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Ross's "year of exploration"

 

[Cairnsman]

Caminiti as our Key forward is worth sticking with for a while.

Sharman not even close to looking like he'll make it at AFL level.

Max competed hard is the Narrative.

So did Caminiti, and also brings energy and passion....AND kicked goals.

I'm really worried about Max long term, he his a really average player currently.

 

[bergholt]

In the game I'm referring to, it was 11.5 71 to 3.4 22 in the 2nd half.

Yep, so would have been basically identical. Last night we kicked 3.4 in the second half and they could pretty easily have kicked 11.5.

 

[snails13]

How long can we keep our war chest for .
It's Gunna be huge money in 3 or 4 years.
Ain't Gunna be any super stars coming to play for this club

 

[Sully111]

Caminiti as our Key forward is worth sticking with for a while.

Sharman not even close to looking like he'll make it at AFL level.

Max competed hard is the Narrative.

So did Caminiti, and also brings energy and passion....AND kicked goals.

I'm really worried about Max long term, he his a really average player currently.

Our forwards get no decent supply

A fact you seem to want to ignore

 

[crasha301]

We all know our midfield is terrible, RTB knows our midfield is terrible and yet when our midfield plays terrible we all get angry?

Games are won and lost in the middle, always have been and always will be.

Best to stay bottom 5 till Tassie come in.









On CPH2145 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[BigPowerForward]

Yep, so would have been basically identical. Last night we kicked 3.4 in the second half and they could pretty easily have kicked 11.5.

Agree.The scoreboard flattered us last night. That should have been a 10 goal loss. TBH I'm getting more enjoyment watching Sandringham and the progress of our youngsters !

 

[Harvestar]

You need triggers to make changes. IMO Wilke looks like the most natural leader.The club can’t make the change mid season but I’d guess it was a good chance for next year.

I was surprised we didn’t make the change over the off season, not as if this is now an aberration, Steele has shown these qualities (or lack of) for some time now.

 

[austinnn]

Love our Rowan, but his game contrasted so much with Jackson’s. I feel like we’ve allowed him to develop some bad habits.

Windy is going to learn similarly bad habits if we don’t get him to be more proactive when he wins the ball.

That last Centre Bounce though, win the contest, handball to a centre who hits a back man on the burst (Naz) it’s a radically different look from the old swivel kick.

I honestly can’t see why we are persisting with Jones. Offers nothing in the modern game. I honestly see more in Phillipou and Collard.

We would be better off with Seb ahead of him, but I’d rather Hugo continues to get opportunities.

Max was much better today. Is that because Caminiti is there?

I guess this is what non linear development feels like to supporters. If you go to the Cats thread by the way they are lamenting their midfield the same way we do.

Go Saints.

One of the best takes I've read.

Maybe I'm naive, but despite how bad we are, I think I trust RTB to get the team back on track, I feel like he at least knows what's going on.

One of my problems with Ratten and Richo was that I got the sense that they didn't see a problem or they weren't capable of finding the solution. Could be completely wrong.

I read a couple of reactions to his pressers, saying that he's basically telling the group time and again that he doesn't have faith in them. For me, his message sounds more like: "We're teaching these guys, it's a long process, not because they can't do it but because they're either kids or they've developed bad habits in the past and there's no standard at the club to fall back on, so we're having to build that."

In any event, I think that is probably the case, and while there will inevitably be a list churn a-coming, most of his players believe that they have a future under him. Except for Steele - that guy looks like a ghost, and I can see him doing a Luke Ball to us at the end of the year and defecting to a team who will subsequently become premier. And you know what? If it takes that fif us to get better, I'm OK with that. I like Jack, but it has been a mistake making him captain. His style of leadership is best in an unofficial, cultural, "Mason Wood" style context. A few of us have said it consistently for years now, but those inside the club must see something we don't. I would love to know what it is. When you see him with the other club captains, he looks like he doesn't belong there and it looks like he knows it too. I think this might be his worst year so far, he can't even say he's playing well now. Is it Ross? He's got to deal with it and get more from himself.

 

[Saintbloke]

A clear example of a team playing with no confidence, drive or leadership and playing a style of game that won't win games regardless of what "cattle" we have. Those guys are not enjoying their football, not sure of what they should do with ball in hand. More like a group of un-coached individuals trying to play a team game with no clear direction.

 

[Ricmel]

Everybody is blaming Ross t

Right now, Richmond and St Kilda are stains on the competition. Saints averaging about 60 points per game. i have never been a "blame the coach" person but Ross Lyon should be banned from coaching AFL teams for bringing the game into disrepute.

I'd rather watch paint dry.

 

[GTrains Mullet]

I think I am at the acceptance part of my grief for this club.

Doesn’t make it much easier to watch this but at least I am expecting us to play this way now.

I’ve prioritised watching this club for too long. Think I’ll stop watching games lives and watch the occasional replay for my own mental health.

 

[beside the seaside]

I don't think the bookies will be serving us up as favorites again for a while.

To all the Steele knockers. He's been our best player for the previous 3 weeks. How would you like to be carrying our sh.it midfield one-out every week?

No wonder he gets the black dog look about him sometimes.

It's amusing when you see Steele and Marshall getting bagged out

 

[bergholt]

None of us want to believe this, but here's where we are:

• Too many bad list management decisions over the last 10 years leaves us with a shit list.
• Too much mediocre coaching over the last 10 years leaves us with players with bad habits.
• And we have no onfield leadership.

There's literally only one possible strategy from here.

We lose a lot of games in the next 1-3 years, get as many games as possible into the kids, and keep going to the draft. When we go to the draft, we take as many mids as possible which gives us the best possible chance of getting A graders. Mids, mids, and more mids.

Is RTB the right coach? I don't know, but I don't think anyone else does better. (Look at Clarkson at North.)

So we may as well have a coach who drives standards, rebuilds players from the ground up, and gives us at least a chance of finding a future core.

As supporters all we can do is have patience.

Which sux.