Autopsy Round 10, 2024: St.Kilda v Fremantle

[PostmanBish]

I’ve been as harsh on King as anyone, however last night wasn’t his fault. I don’t think a single forward in the league would have succeeded when the ball was coming in so slow into a congested forward line and kicked to a disadvantageous position most of the time. And when he was on a good lead they kicked it out on the full. And there were three or four instances where umpires would usually pay either a mark or free kick that he didn’t get. He still needs to work on his forward craft but he competed far better last night.

Reckon Curnow, C. may have received a couple last night ... just a couple, if he were standing in our forward line (wearing Blue, of course, so the umpires could see him)

 

[ScrappyDo]

This is a case in point of why the club can't win with it's supporters.
We piss and moan that they haven't rebuilt properly, then when they start pumping games into good kids we piss and moan about the losses.
We know our midfield is trash and we lose in there every week then we piss and moan the coach is no good.
Yes we deserve better as loyal supporters but we're paying the price for past sins of the last decade.
We all drank the sugar hit last year, but now its back to grimm reality which I'd prefer over the spluttering go nowhere tenures of Cho and Ratten. Time pay the piper.

 

[Holy Hunter Clark]

I'll still be watching every game but seriously ECO at this point.

Yeah our kids are going to be good, and our defence holds up very well. But man, our midfield is seriously D grade level at the moment, lost it at the contest and Freo just had numbers streaming through the middle, absolutely nothing your back 6 can do when Serong, Young and Brayshaw walk it inside 50 without pressure.

Ross knows what the problem is but even he knows there isn't a quick answer, we will need to grab 2 mids this draft (Sam Lalor would be great as well) and throw cash at a big fish.

Now last year seriously looks like we over performed.

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[PostmanBish]

This is a case in point of why the club can't win with it's supporters.
We piss and moan that they haven't rebuilt properly, then when they start pumping games into good kids we piss and moan about the losses.
We know our midfield is trash and we lose in there every week then we piss and moan the coach is no good.
Yes we deserve better as loyal supporters but we're paying the price for past sins of the last decade.
We all drank the sugar hit last year, but now its back to grimm reality which I'd prefer over the spluttering go nowhere tenures of Cho and Ratten. Time pay the piper.

I was generally really happy with the effort and application last night. Execution still has issues, but I saw significant amounts of footy on the part of our players which I would like if we could do it consistently.

The worst moment, IMHO, was where the Freo goal was overturned on review (jubilation), and we just handed the ball back to them from the kick-in to make sure they scored it anyway (F********k!) ... that straw basically broke the camel's back.

The more I look at it, the more I'm starting to suspect we'd be wise to get whatever decent draft picks we can, before the AFL gives Tassie the first 37 picks in their first draft.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

We are a genuinely an unwatchable football team.

 

[gringo2011]

This is a case in point of why the club can't win with it's supporters.
We piss and moan that they haven't rebuilt properly, then when they start pumping games into good kids we piss and moan about the losses.
We know our midfield is trash and we lose in there every week then we piss and moan the coach is no good.
Yes we deserve better as loyal supporters but we're paying the price for past sins of the last decade.
We all drank the sugar hit last year, but now its back to grimm reality which I'd prefer over the spluttering go nowhere tenures of Cho and Ratten. Time pay the piper.

I go up to Daylesford every few weeks and on the radio they had talkback whining about the state of the roads, next time I go they're doing the roads and everyone's calling in whinging about the inconvenience of the roadworks.

The problem for the Saints is that there is never that few years in between that the roads are just in good usable condition. We are either driving along smashing the suspension in and cracking our rims or there are 22 sign holders and one guy with the whacker patching the holes.

I just want 2 or 3 years of cruising along listening to yacht rock with the windows down.

 

[Broski]

After sleeping on last night’s result, all I will say is that Ross isn’t the undisputed reason we are playing the way we are - but he isn’t immune to criticism.

We are not a good football team at the moment, and playing finals last year has muddied the waters for most fans. We overachieved last year, and with such an even competition, the slightest bit of regression will see teams finish in the bottom five.

As has been mentioned before, I do see Ross being the Paul Roos at Melbourne-type figure to fix this club and put it on the right track. Is he the bloke who wins us a flag? Unlikely, in my opinion. However, whoever takes over will have the best opportunity to compete over the long term.

Read the Herald Sun article from Mark Robinson this week and even watch the presser from last night. Ross and the rest of the major decision makers at the club know exactly where we are and know what needs to be done to make us a good team. The past decade has seen us believe we aren’t far off a flag, but we aren’t close at the moment. Just look at the depth running around in clubs in flag contention, it’s night and day compared to us. We will hit the draft hard and we will explore free agency to fix our biggest problem - our midfield. Will it take five years? Will it take 18 months? Who knows, but the club knows it won’t happen this season. It hurts for us as fans to acknowledge that, but we need to persist.

 

[Captain Paddy]

He would walk in to at minimum Melbourne, Suns, Dogs, Giants (Green is their only inside bull) even if they had to do some rearranging and the Swans wouldn’t have gone after Adams if they had him. He isn’t a multiple AA by accident. Either way though your job as the coach is to get the best out of players and you can’t do that if you telling all 40+ of them that they’re not good enough.

Suns have Rowell, Touk and Miller as their starters, there is no way Steele walks into that. Same with Melbourne and Giants.

 

[Sully111]

This is a case in point of why the club can't win with it's supporters.
We piss and moan that they haven't rebuilt properly, then when they start pumping games into good kids we piss and moan about the losses.
We know our midfield is trash and we lose in there every week then we piss and moan the coach is no good.
Yes we deserve better as loyal supporters but we're paying the price for past sins of the last decade.
We all drank the sugar hit last year, but now its back to grimm reality which I'd prefer over the spluttering go nowhere tenures of Cho and Ratten. Time pay the piper.

Honestly mate I think you're letting Ross off the hook a bit.

It doesn't look to me like most of our players have any direction. Not just the kids. They look really confused out there. It shows when it comes time to make a decision with ball in hand.

Is it part of Ross being in control and having a plan to drop Pou for a week then bring him back in?

Is it part of his genius plan to play Paton as a forward?

What's his plan with Sharman?

I think Ross is a bit like a dog chasing his tail right now.

I'd be happy to cop losses if he was showing us a clear way forward. He's all over the place.

 

[gringo2011]

After sleeping on last night’s result, all I will say is that Ross isn’t the undisputed reason we are playing the way we are - but he isn’t immune to criticism.

We are not a good football team at the moment, and playing finals last year has muddied the waters for most fans. We overachieved last year, and with such an even competition, the slightest bit of regression will see teams finish in the bottom five.

As has been mentioned before, I do see Ross being the Paul Roos at Melbourne-type figure to fix this club and put it on the right track. Is he the bloke who wins us a flag? Unlikely, in my opinion. However, whoever takes over will have the best opportunity to compete over the long term.

Read the Herald Sun article from Mark Robinson this week and even watch the presser from last night. Ross and the rest of the major decision makers at the club know exactly where we are and know what needs to be done to make us a good team. The past decade has seen us believe we aren’t far off a flag, but we aren’t close at the moment. Just look at the depth running around in clubs in flag contention, it’s night and day compared to us. We will hit the draft hard and we will explore free agency to fix our biggest problem - our midfield. Will it take five years? Will it take 18 months? Who knows, but the club knows it won’t happen this season. It hurts for us as fans to acknowledge that, but we need to persist.

Also cut the depth away by losing guys like Gresham and Billings who probably make us more competitive short term. We threw away the life boats and we are playing a list that looks bottom 4 on paper most weeks. We look more like North, Hawks or Richmond than Sydney, Carlton or Brisbane.

 

[gringo2011]

Suns have Rowell, Touk and Miller as their starters, there is no way Steele walks into that. Same with Melbourne and Giants.

Cogs and Ward are still winning clearance and Kelly can win his own ball as well as play outside too.

 

[Captain Paddy]

Cogs and Ward are still winning clearance and Kelly can win his own ball as well as play outside too.

Melbourne start with Petracca, Oliver and Viney. Steele isn't walking into that either.

 

[phantom13]

This is a case in point of why the club can't win with it's supporters.
We piss and moan that they haven't rebuilt properly, then when they start pumping games into good kids we piss and moan about the losses.
We know our midfield is trash and we lose in there every week then we piss and moan the coach is no good.
Yes we deserve better as loyal supporters but we're paying the price for past sins of the last decade.
We all drank the sugar hit last year, but now its back to grimm reality which I'd prefer over the spluttering go nowhere tenures of Cho and Ratten. Time pay the piper.

Now it’s the supporters fault. You really will blame anyone BUT Ross.

The trainee receptionist hasn’t had a shot fired in her direction for a while, she’s due.

 

[phantom13]

Suns have Rowell, Touk and Miller as their starters, there is no way Steele walks into that. Same with Melbourne and Giants.

I reckon you mean Anderson (not Touk and Miller). On current form Steele woukd be behind

Melbourne - Trac, Clarry, Viney
Suns - Miller, Anderson, Rowell, Flanders
Dogs - Bont, Libba, Richards, Macrae, Treloar
Giants - Green, Callaghan, Cogs, Ward, Whitfield

By my very quick scan of teams Steele probably “walks” into the roos (purely as an experienced head), West Coast, Hawthorn, Richmond (mostly due to injuries) and maaaaaaaybe Geelong.

 

[EddieMurphy]

Suns have Rowell, Touk and Miller as their starters, there is no way Steele walks into that. Same with Melbourne and Giants.

Touk and Miller?

 

[Sully111]

Touk and Miller?

Yep

With Ben and King up forward they'll soon be unstoppable.

 

[Verdun]

We just play such a horrific style of football. Sorry for the long winded post.

- We won't move forward until the coaches change something. Playing the more dour and dull style won't get us anywhere. The annoying this we actually have players with natural zip and flair but we seem hellbent on coaching it out of them.

- No shock looking at the bottom of the stats sheet to see the players we brought in off average Sandy performance. Collard looked like kid who had 5 un-impactful VFL touches the week before and he couldn't run out the game. Phillipou looked like someone with no form - the coaches failed him by bringing him back after only 1 game down there. That's not setting him up to succeed. Send him back for a month and keep him there no matter how well he plays - like he did with Windy last year which helped his development tremendously.

- Subbing Sharman was dumb considering Collard couldn't run out the game and spent most of the last quarter on the bench, leaving us a rotation down. Sharman may not have been having any impact but he is at least fit enough to run.

- Speaking of Windy - he's one of the only players who has improved this year. He's not pulling consistently big numbers yet but you can see the improvement in how he is setting up and his overall game. One of the bright spots of the year. And should be the reminder that going back to the VFL to get some form isn't a bad thing.

- Marshall doesn't get enough credit for carrying so much of the load. The guy needs help from his teammates desperately.

- Some of the comments on Steele are quite pathetic but par for the course. Guy plays through injuries, carrying our midfield most weeks and gets turned on because he has an average game. Still pulls our most clearances and 2nd most tackles but yeah, he has an attitude issue, sooks it ups with some kind of vendetta etc. Maybe if he had some help in there he wouldn't have to be superman each week for us to have a chance.

- Dow was promising but didn't have the run in him to close out the game. I'm optimistic he will be a good addition with time but it's going to require some patience. Similar with Henry - looked better than last week but clearly was rushed back into the seniors.

- Owens looked much better - 3 goals is an excellent return. Good to see him get some midfield minutes at the end of the last quarter. Just a shame we wait until the game is well and truly over before we give him a chance while Phillipou gets that opportunity for 3 quarters without touching it. I know it has been mentioned Owens gets lost around the ball but if we don't give him experience in there, he will never learn and improve that area of his game. And while I could understand the argument he kicked most of our score so why take him out of the fwd line but given we couldn't get it in there after the 1- minute mark of the 3rd quarter, we are just wasting his talent by not getting him around the ball.

- King was better tonight but it must be so frustrating to be him with how we move the ball and our general skill level. We cant expect any key forward to thrive until we fix what is happening up the field. We also need to speak to the umpire department how the holding off the ball that happening.

- Paton was no good but he's also not a forward. What were we doing playing him there in the first place?

- Just get Battle's contract done and give him what he wants. We have a very good CHB who we've developed into a consistently good performer. Don't let him walk out the door for a mystery draft pick we could only hope will be as good as him in 5-6 years and leaving us to find a replace CHB.

- Hard to judge the defenders properly tonight. We gave up so many shots on goal but that's also a result of that mids getting spanked and the ball coming back in so easily. NWM attacking game on point but needs to improve his defensive side and workrate. Bonner was good last week but this week, his skill issues are inexcusable. We need to make the decision whether Sinclair is going to be half back or a mid - can't be changing our mind every quarter.

Overall, we suck. Will be glad to have Higgins back next week.

Very good post.

Yep I am repeating myself - three things

1. Lyon is not the messiah .....yep can understand trying to make us competitive and not blown out but the style footy the Saints are playing is not conducive to development. It is like he has parked the bus and is waiting for help and potentially then make changes to the game style we are playing. We need games into Garcia, Wilson, Windhager, Philipou, NWM where they get the opportunity to develop. Why would potential recruits come to the Saints with the style of footy we are playing?

2. We have done and still need class in the middle. Our midfield gets smashed every week. Needs recognising and the kids need exposure in there.


3. Marshall needs help in the middle ......we will break him playing him in the ruck for the whole game every game,


and yep give Battle what he wants sign him up he deserves it and St Kilda needs him going forward.

 

[phantom13]

It's there though right? There is evidence that this club can play at a much higher level than they are at the minute.

Not sure, I think if you have to go back more than 12 months and talk about a pretty short period of time you might be clutching at straws.

At the risk of upsetting the cult of Ross this current gamestyle is ALL Ross and the form of 12 months ago when he’d just taken the wheel and seemed to be far less structured and just assessing players strength and weaknesses seems irrelevant to what he wants to do.

I’ve banged on about it a few times but listening to Hardwick talk about exploiting players strengths rather than trying to fix weaknesses is what led to Richmond being Richmond.

Look at our list and we have a pretty solid number of quick, skillful outside runners and a few decent defensive runners as well as pretty good defensive unti. Our midfield sucks and we can’t score but I’m not sure that really on the front 6.

We’re built for quick slingshot, risky corridor footy, we should be playing in games where it’s 15 goals a piece.

Instead Ross wants to make every game a dour slog when we struggle with clearance and contest.

The year is a rite off, we all see that, but the last 2 years and beyond will be a rite off unless Ross changes the gameplan, let the kids loose, play with some flair, enjoy our footy and see what you’ve actually got. I don’t know how you even assess someone like Collard when he’s trying to crumb off packs of 8 defenders with 5 set up behind the pack. Same goes for all the kids really.

 

[The Boar]

I don't care how poor our midfield is or how dysfunctional our forward line can be at times- what is inexcusable is the boring game style we play. No dare, no care.

World's apart from early 2023.

I'm okay with not winning but not playing this way.

 

[SG34]

As the season starts to resemble a Spinal Tap tour, do we ponder thee selection process?

I mean, could anyone make sense of the ins and outs this week?

Why Pou back in? His apprenticeship lasted for one game.

Ross was actually missed.

Sharman and Cam?

Paton?

 

[Remboy]

After sleeping on last night’s result, all I will say is that Ross isn’t the undisputed reason we are playing the way we are - but he isn’t immune to criticism.

We are not a good football team at the moment, and playing finals last year has muddied the waters for most fans. We overachieved last year, and with such an even competition, the slightest bit of regression will see teams finish in the bottom five.

As has been mentioned before, I do see Ross being the Paul Roos at Melbourne-type figure to fix this club and put it on the right track. Is he the bloke who wins us a flag? Unlikely, in my opinion. However, whoever takes over will have the best opportunity to compete over the long term.

Read the Herald Sun article from Mark Robinson this week and even watch the presser from last night. Ross and the rest of the major decision makers at the club know exactly where we are and know what needs to be done to make us a good team. The past decade has seen us believe we aren’t far off a flag, but we aren’t close at the moment. Just look at the depth running around in clubs in flag contention, it’s night and day compared to us. We will hit the draft hard and we will explore free agency to fix our biggest problem - our midfield. Will it take five years? Will it take 18 months? Who knows, but the club knows it won’t happen this season. It hurts for us as fans to acknowledge that, but we need to persist.

Good points. When Ross took over Bassett said we were going to build through the draft for long term success, not go for a quick fix. I think the reason for getting Ross was to instill the right values and attitudes in the kids coming through.
After his four years the next coach wii, hopefully, be able to take us further with the ground work having been done.

 

[EddieMurphy]

I'll still be watching every game but seriously ECO at this point.

Yeah our kids are going to be good, and our defence holds up very well. But man, our midfield is seriously D grade level at the moment, lost it at the contest and Freo just had numbers streaming through the middle, absolutely nothing your back 6 can do when Serong, Young and Brayshaw walk it inside 50 without pressure.

Ross knows what the problem is but even he knows there isn't a quick answer, we will need to grab 2 mids this draft (Sam Lalor would be great as well) and throw cash at a big fish.

Now last year seriously looks like we over performed.

On Pixel 7 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Do you know how our father son prospects Elwood Peckett and Boston Everitt are tracking ?

 

[Cairnsman]

Our forwards get no decent supply

A fact you seem to want to ignore

Not ignoring that at all. We lack a serious amount of talent and experience from the midfield to the forward line. My comments about the forward line players are fairly relevant I would have thought though.

I'll add some comments about our midfield:

I think we need to relieve Steele of the Captaincy to let him focus on his game only.

Dow will need some games to build up to full conditioning but he has a reputation for butchering it by foot so I'm concerned about that.

Henry 2 games back and still doesn't look confident to hunt and attack the contest like he did against the Pies, but he's set the benchmark so hopefully we can see that consistently.

Windy also set a benchmark against the Pies with his ability to hunt the ball on the inside and distribute to the outside and get us going forward. From listening to RLs presser it seems like he was trying to get Windy to find a balance of that style of play but ended up too focused on Serong to create any drive for his own side.

Jones will be delisted at seasons end.

Paton should be given 2 or 3 weeks at least but is probably fighting for his place on the list.

Wood hasn't been his usual self since injury.

Now as far as Pou goes, I can see the logic of keeping him in the side for 2 reasons, firstly the VFL is a low stadards feeder comp, and Sandy is one of the lower standard sides within that comp. Secondly our season is over so why not keep him in the team where he's getting the best resources for development.

 

[kernelT]

As the season starts to resemble a Spinal Tap tour, do we ponder thee selection process?

I mean, could anyone make sense of the ins and outs this week?

Why Pou back in? His apprenticeship lasted for one game.

Ross was actually missed.

Sharman and Cam?

Paton?

The structure week to week hasn’t made sense all year. Ins and outs are bizarre.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Honestly mate I think you're letting Ross off the hook a bit.

It doesn't look to me like most of our players have any direction. Not just the kids. They look really confused out there. It shows when it comes time to make a decision with ball in hand.

Is it part of Ross being in control and having a plan to drop Pou for a week then bring him back in?

Is it part of his genius plan to play Paton as a forward?

What's his plan with Sharman?

I think Ross is a bit like a dog chasing his tail right now.

I'd be happy to cop losses if he was showing us a clear way forward. He's all over the place.

Nar l think the alternative is what Ratts tried to do. There's plenty to criticise about the way we're playing but l ask if it's the players getting bad instruction or a failure to execute good instruction. I still believe RTB is having to strategize around a midfield that can't get the job done and patching holes in other areas. And yes it's ugly but it's also prety obvious IMO.
If he was going the chep rout then Hammer, Collard and Pou would not havep played yesterday. He's investing in the kids and you see the results on the player stats board. You aren't going to win much when 5 players have less that 10 touches for the game.
I get the notion that Ross might be out of date, but l don't think the team is in a position where that's a concern. We were marshmallows under Ratten. That has at least stopped, and I'll accept the losses if the kids are getting games.
Dow and Henry are building and we'll be better once they hit their straps. Not good, just better.
Windy is getting better, as is Pou though it's hard to see. Wilson continues to improve, Owens hopefully kicks on after that. King pulled his finger out finally.
I see pieces slowly coming together but a machine that's still broken for now. I'm glad RTB is staying the course.