List Mgmt. 2024 Father Son watch MKIII. Operation Ashcroft jnr. Featuring various academy boys.

[Jivlain]

 

[M Malice]

Players over 17 (usually Talls) have been included previously ...... (I think Richardson was one last year).

On another note, Gilder and Richardson have not been invited to the combine......... (edit) and McFadyen

If we rate them that is great for us as they are likely to be bid on very late in the draft if at all.

 

[M Malice]

Baby Ashcroft speaks quite well.

 

[buttermuffs]

REALLY...

So if clubs are fair dinkum about doing the right thing by their player, there's a chance Levi won't be called out till pick 6??

Pick 2, 3, and 4 could easily bid on Levi and have their next pick still be eligible for the 5k so not really.

 

[Elixuh]

 

[M Malice]

 

[Perrip]

"It's affecting Premierships"

It's really not. If you look through the list of players who have been drafted as a Father/Son player, only 9 F/S Players out of 55 F/S players drafted since the 2010 Draft have actually won Premierships throughout their career.

 

[Lionwest]

Kano and Kingy with a standard hot take….. slow news day I’d say.

 

[Tom14]

"It's affecting Premierships"

It's really not. If you look through the list of players who have been drafted as a Father/Son player, only 9 F/S Players out of 55 F/S players drafted since the 2010 Draft have actually won Premierships throughout their career.

9/55 players drafted since 2010 is actually a pretty high rate to have won premierships though, particularly given that since 2010 only 8/18 teams have won flags.

The 55 number gets distorted as well by players who technically got picked up under F/S but were incredibly late picks who weren't expected to do anything - Josh Clayton a good example of this.

But the more obvious point is that in the last 20-30 years, there's been some advantage for basically every flag team. Hawks had a bunch of priority picks, Tigers had a couple too (e.g. Rance), Pies had 3 father sons and an NGA player in the team last year.

We don't have a totally open draft and frankly I don't think it works given that 50% plus of the comp is from victoria.

 

[Nuggo]

9/55 players drafted since 2010 is actually a pretty high rate to have won premierships though, particularly given that since 2010 only 8/18 teams have won flags.

The 55 number gets distorted as well by players who technically got picked up under F/S but were incredibly late picks who weren't expected to do anything - Josh Clayton a good example of this.

But the more obvious point is that in the last 20-30 years, there's been some advantage for basically every flag team. Hawks had a bunch of priority picks, Tigers had a couple too (e.g. Rance), Pies had 3 father sons and an NGA player in the team last year.

We don't have a totally open draft and frankly I don't think it works given that 50% plus of the comp is from victoria.

Not high really as 3 won one last year which would be an anomaly to that list. Some clubs seem to have the advantage over others though such as Collingwood, Bulldogs, perhaps us now. But next decade they could get none.

 

[Tom14]

Not high really as 3 won one last year which would be an anomaly to that list. Some clubs seem to have the advantage over others though such as Collingwood, Bulldogs, perhaps us now. But next decade they could get none.

Yep fair point - but setting it at 2010 takes out the Geelong F/S that won flags too so there have been more. Is it the biggest issue in the game? Probably not, but pretty clear that the pies don't win without at minimum Nick Daicos and Moore.

I posted the below last year in a random thread (coincidentally arguing with the Melbourne Board's #1 Cam Rayner fan) and you can add C'wood 2023 to the list of flags compromised in some way with their 3 F/Ss and Quaynor:

I reckon I can find at least one asterisk for each of the premiers for the last 20 odd years...

2022 Cats - Hawkins F/S under old F/S rules
2021 Dees - Tanking scandal, priority picks, AFL fudging of the FA compo formula to let them get Brayshaw from Frawley leaving, Viney F/S
2019-2020 Tiges - could argue getting Lynch as FA when you were the minor premier isn't exactly doing it the hard way, but legitimate enough under the rules, so maybe no asterisk?
2018 West Coast - Shuey a priority selection in 2008
2017 Tiges - Rance a priority end of round 1 selection in 07
2016 Dogs - F/Ss everywhere
2013-15 Hawks - how many priority picks can one team benefit from?
2012 Swans - Couldn't find an obvious asterisk, was before the academy kicked in so fair play to them. Actually as I edit this I forgot COLA, so asterisked they are.
2011 Cats - lots of F/S with Scarlett, Hawk, etc
2010 Pies - priority pick in Dale Thomas (also special shout out to the Saints with Riewoldt as a priority pick after the AFL changed the Brisbane zone the year before to just exclude the gold coast)
2009 Cats - as above
2008 Hawks - as above
2007 Cats - as above
2006 Eagles - Judd a priority pick
2005 Swans - COLA
2004 Port - concessions for establishment in the comp
01-03 Lions - retention allowance, getting Voss, Acker and others as QLD zone selections, Chris Johnson from the fitzroy merger.

Based on me spending 5 minutes thinking about this I'm ready to say that the 2019-20 tiges are the only premier of the last 20 years that don't have an obvious asterisk so fair play to them!

 

[Perrip]

Not high really as 3 won one last year which would be an anomaly to that list. Some clubs seem to have the advantage over others though such as Collingwood, Bulldogs, perhaps us now. But next decade they could get none.

4 won last year = N/J Daicos, Mitchell [traded from Hawks], Moore. If the Dogs or Lions win it this year, there could be 3 F/S selections from each team who could win the Premiership.

 

[briztoon]

Carlton will get 2 father sons this year, granted neither are top prospects, but in 2026 they’ve got another who’s currently in the pick discussion, after ripping the U16 championships apart.

 

[dlanod]

Carlton will get 2 father sons this year, granted neither are top prospects, but in 2026 they’ve got another who’s currently in the pick discussion, after ripping the U16 championships apart.

I've always said what's good for the Blues is what's good for the competition.

(Do we have another one due in a few years? Otherwise I may reconsider this position in a couple of months.)

 

[Grasshopper17]

I've often thought, if we have a parent-child rule, why can't we also have a brother/sister rule?

I mean, as long as you're paying a fair price (ie picks and/or points etc), what's the problem?

We have probably the closest race for finals and the premiership in history at the moment. If that isn't proof that the draft and salary cap (as they currently exist) are working as they're supposed to, I don't know what is.

People are all very happy to talk about the high end talent clubs get like Daicos and Ashcroft etc, but little is made of the discussion about what those clubs are forced to give up. In theory, a high end club receiving a top draft pick should have its depth sorely affected. We've actually seen this very thing with Collingwood this season.

And we were clearly worried about our own depth as well, hence our somewhat ham fisted attempt to turn Dizzy Gardiner into a key forward. We've been a bit lucky a guy like Logan Morris has played as well as he has from a pick in the 30s. Lucky, shrewd recruiting, whatever. But that's not the system, that's luck or the quality of our recruiting.

So I don't think the fact that the draft is compromised in such a way that picks 1-18 don't match up 1:1 with ladder position really matters, as long as clubs are paying a fair price to compromise that order. As long as that happens, the competition will broadly stay even, even if the draft order is distorted beyond recognition.

 

[JasRulz63]

9/55 players drafted since 2010 is actually a pretty high rate to have won premierships though, particularly given that since 2010 only 8/18 teams have won flags.

The 55 number gets distorted as well by players who technically got picked up under F/S but were incredibly late picks who weren't expected to do anything - Josh Clayton a good example of this.

A few of those who have won flags were later picks though - J. Daicos, Bews and Cordy.

 

[Clarkythelion]

"I watched his father play, god he was a running machine back then and had a great leap'

I think the father/son rule is about supporters and building loyalty and retention of supporters and their families through generations. I think it's great to sit in the stands with your family and talk about old times and the teams before. I don't think the % of kids who follow their fathers into a club and go on to play in a premiership is really relevant unless you also consider those that didn't follow - didn't Marc Murphy turn us down.

I know I sit with my adult kids and we sometimes talk about the premierships and the players and I think that is great to think we have been member over 20 years and have seen generations of players come through. For the smaller clubs, especially those from non-AFL states, it's brilliant to see families continue fighting the fight against Rugby.

 

[Crusha]

Some clips from last weekends VFL match against Carlton featuring the Brisbane Academy (Allies) players who participated.
I have also included our Mid Season Draft selections, as I view them to be equally a part of the 2024 Draft discussions (re. their retention - including McLachlan, who does have a contract for next year).

Luke Beecken #47



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Darcy Craven #50



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Tom Gillett #63



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Sam Marshall #53



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Will McLachlan #42



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Billy Richardson #60



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[Nathan Barley]

Some clips from last weekends VFL match against Carlton featuring the Brisbane Academy (Allies) players who participated.
I have also included our Mid Season Draft selections, as I view them to be equally a part of the 2024 Draft discussions (re. their retention - including McLachlan, who does have a contract for next year).

Luke Beecken #47



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Darcy Craven #50



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Tom Gillett #63



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Sam Marshall #53



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Will McLachlan #42



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Billy Richardson #60



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Really highlights how inconsistent Beeckens kicking is

 

[Dalions]

Really highlights how inconsistent Beeckens kicking is

So the Crows can have him?

 

[MSB ROYS]

So the Crows can have him?

I agree he needs to improve his kicking, but does get plenty of the ball which is a plus.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

I agree he needs to improve his kicking, but does get plenty of the ball which is a plus.

Still would keep him beyond this year and trade / delist Prior IMO especially if Robertson requests a trade back home to WA.

Don't get me wrong in Prior has done well since elevating himself back in the AFL side again but has found himself behind the pack in the tall defenders & half-backs by quite some distance (with injuries to others helping his recall) but Beecken has shown more after 6 months so far to suggest he could be a quality player for us.

We could trade him and Robertson for some 3rd to 4th round picks to West Coast and help us gain points for Ashcroft, Marshall and other academy prospect draft bids that'll come our way. Only negative it could have is the rat-pack (in a good way) group with himself, Sharp, Lohmann and Tunstill part of but all good things must come to a end sometimes.

 

[Gadzorks]

Time for me to book in for a cognitive test.

Good grief- never do a cognitive test. Nothing good comes from that. Instead just pretend you've had one and you are the same as when you were 30yo.

I'm sure imaginative story telling and self deception count as cognitive skills.

 

[Crusha]

Really highlights how inconsistent Beeckens kicking is

I wonder whether, sometimes, your posts are just intended to solicit a reaction (I stop short of using "troll").
In this case I lean towards the former, because you quite often offer some interesting analysis (that I agree with).

Although it's against my better judgement, reaction incoming.

I know you watch the VFL streams because I often see you comment during play.
My observations of those same streams identify to me that Beecken has been encouraged / "given the green light" to aggressively take on the corridor / attacking options by foot, probably because they recognise his ability to do so, and assess the overall outcome as on the positive side.
Indeed, when he and Prior are in the side they contribute the most aggression toward attacking from deep 50 / defensive wing.

From these clips in particular:

Kick 1 - from centre wing boundary off weaker foot narrowly carries over a forward target - end result: turnover mark by Beecken back on wing (no score for Carlton)
Kick 2 - from boundary wing an aggressive centre corridor pass narrowly misses - end result: turnover (no score to Carlton)
Kick 3 - from centre field into fwd 50, marked by Carlton when Ryan didn't contest - end result: turnover then mark by Beecken deep in def 50 (no score to Carlton)
Kick 4 - as a result of above mark, from deep def 50 outlet kick to Lyons - end result: Lions shot on goal (no score to Carlton)
Kick 5 - from centre wing to inside 50, marked by Carlton after Gillett didn't contest (which Gillett acknowledged back to Beecken) - end result: no score to Carlton (indeed, after Carlton turn over Goal to Brisbane)
Kick 6 - from just fwd of centre, short pass onto chest of leading fwd - end result: inside 50 to Brisbane (no score to Carlton)
Kick 7 - from deep inside 50, aggressive outlet pass to Crane in midfield - end result: inside 50 to Brisbane (no score to Carlton)
Kick 8 - from just behind centre circle to Tunstill spreading wide on the wing - end result: inside 50 to Brisbane (no score to Carlton)
Kick 9 - from def wing to half fwd flank finding Hude - end result: Goal to Tunstill (no score to Carlton)
Kick 10 - from inside def 50 with weaker foot to centre wing where Sharp is spoiled and turnover to Carlton and resultant kick is spoiled out of bounds by Beecken inside def 50 - end result: no score to Carlton
Kick 11 - from inside def 50 outlet kick to Lyons who spoils over boundary just short of centre wing - end result: no score to Carlton
Kick 12 - from deep in defensive pocket outlet kick to outside 50 marked by MacPherson - end result: no score to Carlton
Kick 13 - from just behind centre marked by Lyons near boundary - end result: marked by Beecken after running on after delivering his pass - end result: Kick 14 (no score for Carlton)
Kick 14 - from half forward boundary to a contest inside fwd 50 and over the boundary line - end result: no score to Carlton
Kick 15 - from boundary line just outside 50 after taking a good contested defensive mark, a pressure relieving kick backward to Answerth - end result: ultimately a shot at goal for Brisbane at the other end (no score to Carlton)

Look, maybe I've been a bit harsh at the intro, and I can now see where the clips in isolation may not have provided enough "context" (?) to allow an accurate assessment.

For what its worth my assessment of his kicking is it's as equally aggressive and attacking as similar proponents in the Senior side like Zorko and Coleman (with a comparable efficiency), and a more efficient deliverer out of defence than the likes of Starcevich, Willmot, McKenna (current iteration).

I know your comment wasn't hinting anything re. not retaining him, but my view is he would be a far better option (and more Senior ready) than anyone likely to be available beyond our commitments to Ashcroft the Younger and Marshall, and should be signed.

Don't take offence .... (unless you were trolling)

 

[SRH17]

Some sons have turned out to be busts as well - Brown, Lynch and Voss.

 

[RoyBoy17]

Beecken definitely worth keeping. Quick and agile so I think he could be handy even on a wing, half forward or half back.

McLachlan reminds me of Linc, looks dangerous every time he’s near it. Plays taller than he is.