Player Watch #10: Shane Edwards - Retiring at Seasons end

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RodneyDangerfield said:
I'm not saying that am I?
I am merely expressing my opinion that statistics can be fluff and that the word elite gets thrown around a lot.
You're going off on a tangent that I am comparing him to Cotchin and all this other rubbish?
And you question people's comprehension skills?
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Proves my point. Read it again Einstein.
 
SumTingWong said:
Proves my point. Read it again Einstein.
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You're kidding?
Surely you are taking the piss ???
You didn't read my first post properly. That happens.
Either that or you are just being a knob for God knows what reason?

All I said was it's a bit of a wank to call almost any player Elite in any department of the game.Particularly based on stats
I understood quite clearly that it was referring to a specific part of the game.
I didn't think I needed to painstakingly point that out.
Then you get all smartarse or sooky I'm not sure which and say the obvious that it's not being compared to Cotchin or every player in the league.
Why?
 

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RodneyDangerfield said:
You're kidding?
Surely you are taking the piss ???
You didn't read my first post properly. That happens.
Either that or you are just being a knob for God knows what reason?

All I said was it's a bit of a wank to call almost any player Elite in any department of the game.Particularly based on stats
I understood quite clearly that it was referring to a specific part of the game.
I didn't think I needed to painstakingly point that out.
Then you get all smartarse or sooky I'm not sure which and say the obvious that it's not being compared to Cotchin or every player in the league.
Why?
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Are you serious? What the hell else are we supposed to use? We get it you don't like stats aka known as facts. The stats are hard evidence of a players worth to a team and their value to a player. If you can come up with another way of measuring these factors you will be a very rich man.

You said that I said that you compared to him to Cotchin. I pointed out that I didn't. Thanks for leaving that one out.

The stats and the RFC rate Edwards extremely highly (aka elite) and you don't. Guess whose opinion doesn't matter?
 
SumTingWong said:
Are you serious? What the hell else are we supposed to use? We get it you don't like stats aka known as facts. The stats are hard evidence of a players worth to a team and their value to a player. If you can come up with another way of measuring these factors you will be a very rich man.

You said that I said that you compared to him to Cotchin. I pointed out that I didn't. Thanks for leaving that one out.

The stats and the RFC rate Edwards extremely highly (aka elite) and you don't. Guess whose opinion doesn't matter?
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Whilst they can be a good guide to how someones travelling, in todays high possesion brand of football, they can also be highly misleading.
I don't think anyone is saying Sheds is poo, just how good they believe he is differs. Stats may show any player for that matter performs better than others when measured against those particular stats, but it never tells a complete story.

Too many questions arise as to the weighting of one particular stat to another, time and importance that stat occured, stats accrewed against certain opposition etc... Being involved heavily in football, I can tell you it is quite often the things that stats can't tell you which define the importance (or rating) of a player.

So you take it for what it is, a ranking of a particular player, on a defined set of stats by one particular group, who then label the performance of said player against a defined ranking of their own.

It may also come down to them using the simple term elite... similar to the term champion, are they thrown around too often in sporting circles these days, of course they are, it draws public interest which in one form or another usually leads to a drive in revenue somewhere...
 
SumTingWong said:
Are you serious? What the hell else are we supposed to use? We get it you don't like stats aka known as facts. The stats are hard evidence of a players worth to a team and their value to a player. If you can come up with another way of measuring these factors you will be a very rich man.

You said that I said that you compared to him to Cotchin. I pointed out that I didn't. Thanks for leaving that one out.

The stats and the RFC rate Edwards extremely highly (aka elite) and you don't. Guess whose opinion doesn't matter?
Click to expand...
I give up.
You did say I compared him to Cotchin.Or you at least used Cotchin as a reference point ,why I'm not sure.
I didn't say I don't rate Edwards.
In fact you don't rate Edwards.
All I said is if the actual definition of Elite was to be taken seriously then it's overuse in this game is ridiculous.
Yes you're right I don't rate stats as much as just watching the game.
For me personally (if that's ok with you) they are just a big bloody mess of facts and figures used to either justify or crucify.
Sure sone stats are pretty straightforward and telling.
And if you think I think my opinion matters well there isn't much I can do about that.
That's one thing I'm very very clear about.
Nobodies in here does. I agree with you 100%.
Didn't think I really was going down that track to say my opinion held weight,but anyway nevermind.
You're pretty smartarsed reply took me aback a bit so I bit.
So I thought ok well maybe you're a big Edwards fan so took it personally or something.
Wouldn't be the first one so I thought ok.
But I have a look and you said when he signed his contract extension he's overrated,so I became pretty bloody confused.
Maybe you just don't like me.
If not please just use the ignore function because I don't go much for this bullshit really.
If not,have a good day and go tigers.
 
There is a paragraph in the 2015 prospectus that perfectly explains titch's rating and what he does well that others don't.

I was gonna post it but after reading the thread it is clear that it wont reach those who don't understand it already.

Y'all being princesses over this. Go outside or something.
 
Nebular said:
There is a paragraph in the 2015 prospectus that perfectly explains titch's rating and what he does well that others don't.

I was gonna post it but after reading the thread it is clear that it wont reach those who don't understand it already.

Y'all being princesses over this. Go outside or something.
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Let us know mate.
 
RodneyDangerfield said:
I give up.
You did say I compared him to Cotchin.Or you at least used Cotchin as a reference point ,why I'm not sure.
I didn't say I don't rate Edwards.
In fact you don't rate Edwards.
All I said is if the actual definition of Elite was to be taken seriously then it's overuse in this game is ridiculous.
Yes you're right I don't rate stats as much as just watching the game.
For me personally (if that's ok with you) they are just a big bloody mess of facts and figures used to either justify or crucify.
Sure sone stats are pretty straightforward and telling.
And if you think I think my opinion matters well there isn't much I can do about that.
That's one thing I'm very very clear about.
Nobodies in here does. I agree with you 100%.
Didn't think I really was going down that track to say my opinion held weight,but anyway nevermind.
You're pretty smartarsed reply took me aback a bit so I bit.
So I thought ok well maybe you're a big Edwards fan so took it personally or something.
Wouldn't be the first one so I thought ok.
But I have a look and you said when he signed his contract extension he's overrated,so I became pretty bloody confused.
Maybe you just don't like me.
If not please just use the ignore function because I don't go much for this bullshit really.
If not,have a good day and go tigers.
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Just to confuse you or confirm your thoughts about me even more I don't rate Edwards. :oops:At best I think he is OK. It's probably because he has
had so many shite years and when he stuffs up it is of the embarrassing type. I accept that he is elite or whatever they want to call him even though I personally don't see it. It's a fact that he is at the higher end of his position. But my opinion/rating of the guy is obviously way off when compared to what he really brings to the game because I have a previous bias. Stats don't.
I don't know exactly what it is that a club uses to rate a player highly apart from the obvious goals, marks, kicks etc. I know one thing. The club deifinitely does. The days of rating a player the usual ways are over. The game is, and sport in general is way more complicated than that now and I find it frustrating (obviously) that we continue to disregard these complexities. I don't like that when a club and facts (stats) are used to show a players worth alot of us still dismiss it.
We'll agree to disagree even though I do agree:D
 
Nebular said:
There is a paragraph in the 2015 prospectus that perfectly explains titch's rating and what he does well that others don't.

I was gonna post it but after reading the thread it is clear that it wont reach those who don't understand it already.

Y'all being princesses over this. Go outside or something.
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Post it for Christ sake
 
Like Edwards and he needs to continue and improve upon his form from the second half of last year.. Who cares if he's elite or whatever he's a tiger and I love him..
 

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NZ_Tiger said:
I remember when father christmas told us all Edwards would never improve and would only be on a list at a shit club like RFC, think he might have said the same about Matt White. Glad that Santa knows **** all about football.
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He has given us a scathing assessment of half our good players on the main board. Good on him for his OP tho, each to their own.
 
2015 Prospectus. Page 288.

Shane Edwards, a player who has an impact at centre bounces and up forward, ranked third at the club for scoreboard impact with 22 goals and 27 score assists despite attending the seventh most centre bounces at the club. His influence continues to be underrated.

Profile. Page 295.

Edwards ranked third at the club for scoreboard impact behind Jack Riewoldt and Dustin Martin in 2014. He is an opportunist, booting 37% of his goals from within 15 metres, the highest rate of the top 100 goal scorers in that range. He also recorded 24 scoring shots from ground kicks - six more than any other player. He won the fourth most crumbing possessions of any player last season and ranked 17th for loose ball gets. Edwards averaged career highs in Champion Data ranking points and recorded 27 score assists - the second most at the club. When he was used in the centre square the Tigers had a centre clearance differential of +11.3% - the best rate of any midfielder at the club. His consistency was rewarded with fourth place in Richmond's B&F.

Intro. Page 8. "Don't Be Stubborn"

Be willing to concede that your eye doesn't see everything. You can be wrong.......When stubbornness persists it leads to what we call "Stats Abuse" - when people make up their minds before looking at evidence or twist what they're seeing to match an agenda........from omitting results that don't support a desired standpoint to incorrectly drawing casual relationships between two measures that are barely connected, incorrect use of numbers gives our industry a bad name.
 
Champion Data Richmond Summary.

*Miles is great. We called it last year but you didn't listen until mid season. Dicks. We told you so.

*Our scoring mids. Jack 1, then Dusty, Titch, Lids, Cotch. Unique scoring profile not seen at any other club.

*Dusty in one on ones. He's basically Hercules.

*Have 12 players selected in top 20 of drafts.

*Tigers happy to recycle. Did you know that?

*Need to nail later picks....*crickets*

*Our draftees all bring something different. Draft summary "The Tigers had a good draft".

*Solid foundation, need to shop around, Time is on their side.


So yeah they didn't say much that most of us didn't already know but there it is. theflea
 
Nebular said:
Champion Data Richmond Summary.

*Miles is great. We called it last year but you didn't listen until mid season. Dicks. We told you so.

*Our scoring mids. Jack 1, then Dusty, Titch, Lids, Cotch. Unique scoring profile not seen at any other club.

*Dusty in one on ones. He's basically Hercules.

*Have 12 players selected in top 20 of drafts.

*Tigers happy to recycle. Did you know that?

*Need to nail later picks....*crickets*

*Our draftees all bring something different. Draft summary "The Tigers had a good draft".

*Solid foundation, need to shop around, Time is on their side.


So yeah they didn't say much that most of us didn't already know but there it is. theflea
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Many thanks mate.
 
THE THIN MAN said:
A select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society:
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/elite

Is he an elite player of the competition; no he is not.

Is he an elite player in his position; the statistics say so.

Sport in general has been dumbed down to a statistical output rather than impact (e.g. player had 26 disposals however if 50% of those ended up to the opposition then his impact has been minimal).
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This is why imo there is a star category and elite category under that.
 
He's our best stoppage midfielder by a mile. Does all the little things, fires out all the unseen handballs and still collects a fair share of clearances. On top of that he is highly creative and doesn't go missing when the heats on, (Watch the last 5-10 minutes of the Essendon game.) Someone said before that he is part of the "second rotation" of midfielders. I'm pretty sure the club see Edwards, Miles and Cotchin as the best 3 midfielders to have at the center bounce.
 
MR said:
He's our best stoppage midfielder by a mile. Does all the little things, fires out all the unseen handballs and still collects a fair share of clearances. On top of that he is highly creative and doesn't go missing when the heats on, (Watch the last 5-10 minutes of the Essendon game.) Someone said before that he is part of the "second rotation" of midfielders. I'm pretty sure the club see Edwards, Miles and Cotchin as the best 3 midfielders to have at the center bounce.
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While I agree with most of this, Edwards isnt immune to going missing like most of our players imo.
 

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Player Watch #10: Shane Edwards - Retiring at Seasons end

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