100th Anniversary of the Day Nothing Happened

[LanceRomance]

Have I got this right? I dont have a grasp of global politics because I think other countries do have concepts of mateship, do have their people go to war as it is the "done thing to do", do stand up for people being harassed or assaulted in the street and do have a sense of selflessness in their psyche the way Australians do?

The Australians forged a reputation in France (from the French) for coming from so far away to fight for them.

The Town of Villers Bretonneux has a school with this sign up... and I believe it is in every class room

 

[radiojake]

Today I learnt that before 1914, Australians were shit campaigners who did nothing if someone was getting assualted on the street

 

[FlowersByIrene]

You mean themes from going to war? So you think we as a nation are unique because in The Great War we had concepts of mateship, wnt to war as it was the "done thing to do" and this lead to Australians standing up for people being harassed or assaulted in the street and a sense of selflessness in the Australian psyche that is not always present in other countries around the world?

I'm saying that is what we can take from Anzac Day as a nation, they are positives embodied in the Anzac legend that as Australian society we do show, and when we don't show, should be striving to obtain.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Today I learnt that before 1914, Australians were shit campaigners who did nothing if someone was getting assualted on the street

But can you have a national holiday for "being good blokes"? no you can't it has to be grounded in something real. And Anzac day is an accurate portrayal of the Australian spirit that we as a nation strive to emulate.

 

[radiojake]

we have a holiday for a stupid horse race, so I'm sure they could find a legitimate reason to celebrate the ideals we strive for in a nation that has nothing to do with invading a foreign country if they really wanted to -

 

[Kram]

But can you have a national holiday for "being good blokes"? no you can't it has to be grounded in something real. And Anzac day is an accurate portrayal of the Australian spirit that we as a nation strive to emulate.

A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.

 

[LanceRomance]

we have a holiday for a stupid horse race, so I'm sure they could find a legitimate reason to celebrate the ideals we strive for in a nation that has nothing to do with invading a foreign country if they really wanted to -

You know that day, it's not just about Gallipoli, its about the whole damned war.

60,000 Australians died and 140,000 wounded over that 4 years. It's about remembering their sacrifice regardless of why they died.

Also, there was no conscription in place for Australia in WW1.... it was done out of sense of duty that people had to each other and the nation.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

we have a holiday for a stupid horse race, so I'm sure they could find a legitimate reason to celebrate the ideals we strive for in a nation that has nothing to do with invading a foreign country if they really wanted to -

But that gives it legitimacy, which means more people take it in.
So you can only be against that if you think that honour and mateship are things we as a nation SHOULDN'T be striving to achieve.

 

[radiojake]

That's a nice bit of doublespeak, bro - I'll give you props for that -

So as someone who has issues with how our state perpetuates the industrial military complex (and you're a fool if you think ANZAC Day has nothing to do with that), I'm against the ideas of honour and mateship?

Is that what you're saying?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

That's a nice bit of doublespeak, bro - I'll give you props for that -

So as someone who has issues with how our state perpetuates the industrial military complex (and you're a fool if you think ANZAC Day has nothing to do with that), I'm against the ideas of honour and mateship?

Is that what you're saying?

this actually perfectly circles back around to my original point.

If you disagree with the top down creation of anzac day, if you believe that the government id pushing an over militarised agenda, then anzac day can still exist as a personal reflective time. You dont have to participate in the governmental mechinations if you don't want to.

So youre hate isnt at Anzac Day but those who you feel control it, so therefore you should - rather than bagging out Anzac Day, partake in your own way and adress the issue at the source - which is a different conversation to the one we are having here.

And if you still have a problem with individually partaking in Anzac Day - well then I see no logic to your point.

 

[John]

The Australians forged a reputation in France (from the French) for coming from so far away to fight for them.

The Town of Villers Bretonneux has a school with this sign up... and I believe it is in every class room

So in France they dont have concepts of mateship, do not have their people go to war as it is the "done thing to do", do not stand up for people being harassed or assaulted in the street and do not have a sense of selflessness in their psyche the way Australians do?

Not sure I recall thinking that at my last visit 3 years back but then the Loire Valley, Normandy and Brittany are a long way away from Villers Bretonneux. I do recall being asked how Cadel Evans went in the Tour as the time I was at Mont St Michel. I had to plead ignorance and I suppose the Frenchman who asked was in shock that I had not followed it that close. Lack of mateship on my part? Blame the magnificent French countryside, history and food as I found that more exciting than a pushbyke race.

I'm saying that is what we can take from Anzac Day as a nation, they are positives embodied in the Anzac legend that as Australian society we do show, and when we don't show, should be striving to obtain.

So that is what makes us unique as a nation, positives embodied in the Anzac legend?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

It's part of it. No one is saying Anzac day is soley a representation of Australian society but it is part of it. An accurate part

 

[John]

It's part of it. No one is saying Anzac day is soley a representation of Australian society but it is part of it. An accurate part

And with that all those nice thing you wrote previously that make us unique from say Britain?

Did you now that Cameron, the British PM, was reportedly asked to remove his poppy while on a visit to China because they thought it was an insult due to the Opium Wars? He refused and received wonderful publicity back in the UK for standing up for Remembrance Day at the time. Would you consider that a form of mateship in the Anzac spirit?

 

[LanceRomance]

So in France they dont have concepts of mateship, do not have their people go to war as it is the "done thing to do", do not stand up for people being harassed or assaulted in the street and do not have a sense of selflessness in their psyche the way Australians do?

So that is what makes us unique as a nation, positives embodied in the Anzac legend?

The concept of mateship was strengthened further in World War 1. Australian soldiers found themselves in Europe fighting a war that didn’t really seem to have much purpose and certainly had little to do with Australia. Fighting for mates perhaps became a kind of justification. As one Digger said,

"I didn't join out of patriotism. I was looking for what I'd lost; the feeling of a lot of mates all working together, relying on each other, for some other reason that making dividends for the shareholders."

The Diggers' belief in mateship was exemplified in the Australian war traditions that grew out of World War 1. Whereas most countries use

their military day to affirm the power of their nation, Australians use their military day to remember the character of those who died in war.

http://www.convictcreations.com/research/myths.html

Also, that same article talks about mateship being born out unique circumstances created by convict transportation

 

[John]

http://www.convictcreations.com/research/myths.html

So there you go. We are the most uniquest peoples on the planet and most likely in the entire history of mankind. All because of Gallipoli. No other country has this sense of mateship, being part of the tribe we could almost say.

 

[LanceRomance]

So there you go. We are the most uniquest peoples on the planet and most likely in the entire history of mankind. All because of Gallipoli. No other country has this sense of mateship, being part of the tribe we could almost say.

no, I think that the convict thing probably planted the seed but it manifested in WW1.

 

[John]

no, I think that the convict thing probably planted the seed but it manifested in WW1.

But you think the Australian people are unique though because we have concepts of mateship, go to war as it is the "done thing to do" and this leads to Australians standing up for people being harassed or assaulted in the street and also sense of selflessness in the Australian psyche that is not always present in other countries around the world?

By the way if all this is planted by a seed through warfare Costa Rica is in strife. Their lack of armed forces must be a serious issue because when, as an example, someone is being harassed or assaulted in the street no one will come to their aid as they have not had the seed planted for over 60 years.

 

[LanceRomance]

But you think the Australian people are unique though because we have concepts of mateship, go to war as it is the "done thing to do" and this leads to Australians standing up for people being harassed or assaulted in the street and also sense of selflessness in the Australian psyche that is not always present in other countries around the world?

By the way if all this is planted by a seed through warfare Costa Rica is in strife. Their lack of armed forces must be a serious issue because when, as an example, someone is being harassed or assaulted in the street no one will come to their aid as they have not had the seed planted for over 60 years.

I personally think the concept of mateship, as it was known 100 years ago, is different today.

We are not to dissimilar from other western nations now in that regard.

Also, People in different parts of Britain and France still hate each other for crap that happened hundreds of years ago. Not really the case for Australia.

To this day We still don't have people killing each other over the football team we go for... so that should count for something

 

[John]

We are not to dissimilar from other western nations now in that regard.

Nor dissimilar to non western nations in that regard either.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Mateship - the suspicion of anything not deemed "normal".

 

[LanceRomance]

Nor dissimilar to non western nations in that regard either.

nah, the intentional homicide rate is much higher in those.

 

[clogged]

It was 100 years ago. Everyone involved is dead. There is no point mourning those who died in the war because they would still be dead today if it was not for the war.

Time to let the overwrought emotion towards WW1 go.

 

[LanceRomance]

It was 100 years ago. Everyone involved is dead. There is no point mourning those who died in the war because they would still be dead today if it was not for the war.

Time to let the overwrought emotion towards WW2 go.

It is for all diggers. Not just WW1 diggers.

While we are at it, there are still WW2, Borneo conflict, Korean War, and Vietnam vets (and their relatives) still around.

should we just write them off?

The American army flew a flag in honour of my Grandfather 5 years ago in Iraq who was a WW2 vet (while he was still alive). Was a nice touch.

While he was American he still marched in ANZAC day parades.

 

[evo]

Also, there was no conscription in place for Australia in WW1.... it was done out of sense of duty that people had to each other and the nation.

It would be interesting to learn what % of Australians would now willing go and fight in the middle east sans conscription. I would like to think it would be pretty small.

We have grown as a nation in that regard. I guess that is worth celebrating.

 

[LanceRomance]

It would be interesting to learn what % of Australians would now willing go and fight in the middle east sans conscription. I would like to think it would be pretty small.

We have grown as a nation in that regard. I guess that is worth celebrating.

Agreed.

Reckon it would be a million times higher if it was New Zealand who needed help.

In the 1914/15 diggers defence, they thought they were going to France/Belgium but the Ottoman empire entered the war and the British moved the Australians to Gallipoli.