Player Watch #13 Clayton Oliver – UNPRECEDENTED 4x B&F, 3x AA, 2x AFLCA Winner and Premiership Player (formerly)

[Scythe94]

OK, I've removed about three pages of posts.

Please do not use this thread to speculate about Oliver's private life – medical or otherwise.

Regardless of the veracity of your rumour, or what you know/have heard, if it's not public knowledge, just don't post it.

I don't want to turn this place into Demonland, but if you can't see the potential harm that this sort of rumour-spreading can cause (regardless of your intentions), then perhaps it's best if you take a bit of a break.

Thanks.

 

[mrmonkey]

Saying we don't have the cattle to play quick attacking football is a cop out. There's no reason to why we can't use the corridor more often to attack. Goodwin likes the safety of going along the boundary because he's afraid of scores against.

 

[schmuttt]

2016 through 2018 we were attacking with a very similar list profile to what we have now, if anything I'd say we are more skilled now.

 

[GoDees69]

Saying we don't have the cattle to play quick attacking football is a cop out. There's no reason to why we can't use the corridor more often to attack. Goodwin likes the safety of going along the boundary because he's afraid of scores against.

I agree with this. Attacking football requires moving the ball quickly, which can be done without ‘leg speed’. It does require enough good users by foot. I think we have some and appear to have drafted with this in mind. We just make ourselves look worse than we are with the horrible long down the line play.

 

[markm106]

Honestly reckon it’ll be hard for Goodwin for move from his contest and defence beliefs. But he can certainly try and get a bit more attack in there. Ball movement going inside 50 is going to need to improve. Forwards like Fritsch getting isolation also.

 

[GoDees69]

Honestly reckon it’ll be hard for Goodwin for move from his contest and defence beliefs. But he can certainly try and get a bit more attack in there. Ball movement going inside 50 is going to need to improve. Forwards like Fritsch getting isolation also.

The Goodwin factor is the problem. I’m fine with his maintaining a focus on good defensive structure, both Grand Finalists this year had that, but if after the year we had he doesn’t understand that better ball movement in attack is needed for better scoring then we’re going nowhere.

 

[schmuttt]

Saying we don't have the cattle to play quick attacking football is a cop out. There's no reason to why we can't use the corridor more often to attack. Goodwin likes the safety of going along the boundary because he's afraid of scores against.

It's also why outside 2021 our points against numbers are super inflated. Like a ross lyon team we give up scoring to defend, so the numbers make our defence look much better than it actually is.

 

[schmuttt]

To bring thread on topic I think Olivers regression has played a part in this, but sadly I don't think the club has seen it that way. In 2021 he was very dynamic with ball in hand then over the three years since he has regressed to what he was in his first year, although his handballing is much worse. Dude is a zero impact stat stuffer.

 

[GoDees69]

To bring thread on topic I think Olivers regression has played a part in this, but sadly I don't think the club has seen it that way. In 2021 he was very dynamic with ball in hand then over the three years since he has regressed to what he was in his first year, although his handballing is much worse. Dude is a zero impact stat stuffer.

He must have gone okay in 2022 I think? I’ve blanked out most of that year but he got the AFLCA award so must have been alright I guess.

But you’re right, he’s totally not that now. I get that our depth wasn’t great this year, but we shouldn’t have played him. And persisted playing him once injured.

Hopefully he is better in 2025 but I’m not too confident. I’m one of few that thinks that his drastic decline from obsessive trainer, professional attitude and consistent high performance to poor form and unprofessional behaviour came from something more endogenous then suddenly deciding to be a dickhead. The problem with this view is that I also have to believe that it is just as unlikely that he can suddenly “decide” to be good again and everything will be sweet.

I sometimes wonder if our clubs silly decisions stemmed from some kind of desire to help him get back on track life wise? If so that’s a terrible decision made by amateurs. Footy clubs aren’t necessarily the places to find solutions to this stuff, and selection of a player in poor form is done at the expense of others and of course would create issues amongst the players. We seem to be a very unprofessional club that acts like we are a beacon of good culture.

 

[mrmonkey]

It's also why outside 2021 our points against numbers are super inflated. Like a ross lyon team we give up scoring to defend, so the numbers make our defence look much better than it actually is.

Funny thing is points against isn't that great either. We're about 8th with scores against, so about mid table with the 5th worse for points for. Hawthorn by contrast lost their first 5 games and still ended with better score for and against.

 

[Topkent]

Funny thing is points against isn't that great either. We're about 8th with scores against, so about mid table with the 5th worse for points for. Hawthorn by contrast lost their first 5 games and still ended with better score for and against.

And **** all key defenders lol

 

[Crusty Demon]

Honestly reckon it’ll be hard for Goodwin for move from his contest and defence beliefs. But he can certainly try and get a bit more attack in there. Ball movement going inside 50 is going to need to improve. Forwards like Fritsch getting isolation also.

He dipped his toe in this season and got belted. I think it's part cattle part coaching. We don't have a plethora of greatly skilled players. Hawks in comparison all seem to be bloody good kicks. Hopefully this offseason they can come up with something better than last offseason lol. Bowey, McVee, Windsor, Koz, Trac, Salem, Lindsay, Riv, Spargo. There's enough quality run and carry quality skilled players to surely set up a successful attacking gameplan.

 

[mrmonkey]

He dipped his toe in this season and got belted. I think it's part cattle part coaching. We don't have a plethora of greatly skilled players. Hawks in comparison all seem to be bloody good kicks. Hopefully this offseason they can come up with something better than last offseason lol. Bowey, McVee, Windsor, Koz, Trac, Salem, Lindsay, Riv, Spargo. There's enough quality run and carry quality skilled players to surely set up a successful attacking gameplan.

I still think that's a cop out, we may not have the best skilled players but they're still good enough to play attacking footy. You said we don't have the players but then listed players as quality run and quality skilled.

 

[Topkent]

I still think that's a cop out, we may not have the best skilled players but they're still good enough to play attacking footy. You said we don't have the players but then listed players as quality run and quality skilled.

Classic, we can't play attacking footy also he's the players so we can play attacking footy

 

[Crusty Demon]

I still think that's a cop out, we may not have the best skilled players but they're still good enough to play attacking footy. You said we don't have the players but then listed players as quality run and quality skilled.

Even though the players i listed have shown they can be quality in skills and run, not many of them have shown consistency enough imo. That's why i said it's a mix of both. Bowey is supposedly one of our best kicks. As is Salem. But do we see it often enough? Both looked ordinary in 2024 when Goody at least tried something slightly different. Riv another who has shown maybe he's capable, but not enough consistency. Windsor developing, Lindsay unseen and Spargs has been injured. Yeah, we might have the players, but so many question marks and the coaching/gameplan hasn't unlocked an attacking style from them since the finals in 21 and the players have shown a lot of inconsistency. So IMO, it's a mix of both. Compare our list to that of GWS, Lions or Swans, and they have much more consistency and quality in skill so more capable of a more attacking gameplan. Again, my opinion.

 

[booshboy]

He dipped his toe in this season and got belted. I think it's part cattle part coaching. We don't have a plethora of greatly skilled players. Hawks in comparison all seem to be bloody good kicks. Hopefully this offseason they can come up with something better than last offseason lol. Bowey, McVee, Windsor, Koz, Trac, Salem, Lindsay, Riv, Spargo. There's enough quality run and carry quality skilled players to surely set up a successful attacking gameplan.

Dipped his toe in is being generous- At no stage was he prepared to sacrifice anything defensively in order to unlock a more attacking style. the chip mark crap was just as risk averse as anything else he's dished up in the last few years.

 

[mrmonkey]

Even though the players i listed have shown they can be quality in skills and run, not many of them have shown consistency enough imo. That's why i said it's a mix of both. Bowey is supposedly one of our best kicks. As is Salem. But do we see it often enough? Both looked ordinary in 2024 when Goody at least tried something slightly different. Riv another who has shown maybe he's capable, but not enough consistency. Windsor developing, Lindsay unseen and Spargs has been injured. Yeah, we might have the players, but so many question marks and the coaching/gameplan hasn't unlocked an attacking style from them since the finals in 21 and the players have shown a lot of inconsistency. So IMO, it's a mix of both. Compare our list to that of GWS, Lions or Swans, and they have much more consistency and quality in skill so more capable of a more attacking gameplan. Again, my opinion.

I still disagree, I don't see anything special about any opposition that we can't do ourselves. I think being an elite kick is somewhat overrated obviously it helps but not the be all end all. At the end of the day they're all AFL players and should be capable of hitting a target reasonably consistently. It's a pretty basic skill even at local level. We'll never know how well we can do it if we keep going back in our shells. That's where the consistency will come from.

 

[Crusty Demon]

I still disagree, I don't see anything special about any opposition that we can't do ourselves. I think being an elite kick is somewhat overrated obviously it helps but not the be all end all. At the end of the day they're all AFL players and should be capable of hitting a target reasonably consistently. It's a pretty basic skill even at local level. We'll never know how well we can do it if we keep going back in our shells. That's where the consistency will come from.

Hmm, I think at this level, yeah, all players are at a certain level of competency and the margins between teams are as tight as ever. So there probably isn't a huge amount of a gap between 15 teams. Having said that, I look at the Lions list and it's way more talented than ours especially setting up from half back and through the middle. They were also missing their best set up player from defence in Coleman last year. Scary how good their list is. They really should have won multiple flags(still might).

But we are always having a go at Salem even though he's supposedly a decent kick of the football. Bowey is similar in that he's a neat kick but I'm yet to see his kicking dominate or set much play up from defence. We still rely on May to set play up a fair bit for us. Lindsay will take time, but having him and McVee running the ball out of defence is exciting. Oliver and Viney clog up the run and carry and potential fast movement though. Not convinced we can move forward with an all out attacking gameplan with both these guys on the ground and the changes needed will take time and IMO, a couple more players that fit. I don't yet see anyone at Casey that is screaming best 22 and blokes like Sparrow, Chandler, Howes, Bowey, Laurie, Woey etc IMO still have question marks over them. I still think we are a draft/trade period or two away from getting that team. Still question marks over a number of our players with some senior talent retiring sooner rather than later. This is why I really rate Lindsay as a pick. A couple more blokes with his attributes and we'll see Sparrow, Salem, Viney(or Oliver) GTFO because i just don't see the depth atm.

 

[Daemon]

This has nothing to do with anything but I feel like this forum is severely lacking the wire gifs.

 

[mrmonkey]

Hmm, I think at this level, yeah, all players are at a certain level of competency and the margins between teams are as tight as ever. So there probably isn't a huge amount of a gap between 15 teams. Having said that, I look at the Lions list and it's way more talented than ours especially setting up from half back and through the middle. They were also missing their best set up player from defence in Coleman last year. Scary how good their list is. They really should have won multiple flags(still might).

But we are always having a go at Salem even though he's supposedly a decent kick of the football. Bowey is similar in that he's a neat kick but I'm yet to see his kicking dominate or set much play up from defence. We still rely on May to set play up a fair bit for us. Lindsay will take time, but having him and McVee running the ball out of defence is exciting. Oliver and Viney clog up the run and carry and potential fast movement though. Not convinced we can move forward with an all out attacking gameplan with both these guys on the ground and the changes needed will take time and IMO, a couple more players that fit. I don't yet see anyone at Casey that is screaming best 22 and blokes like Sparrow, Chandler, Howes, Bowey, Laurie, Woey etc IMO still have question marks over them. I still think we are a draft/trade period or two away from getting that team. Still question marks over a number of our players with some senior talent retiring sooner rather than later. This is why I really rate Lindsay as a pick. A couple more blokes with his attributes and we'll see Sparrow, Salem, Viney(or Oliver) GTFO because i just don't see the depth atm.

I think we both agree there needs to be change. I think we need to agree to disagree on the rest.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

I agree moving all of those players in helps, but it's a mind set thing. It's not really personnel

Plus experience / continuity I think mate.

We've been fielding a fair number of young players the past couple of years

 

[Topkent]

Plus experience / continuity I think mate.

We've been fielding a fair number of young players the past couple of years

I don't agree with that sentiment. We've given a handful of games our here and there but it's been the same core players

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

I don't agree with that sentiment. We've given a handful of games our here and there but it's been the same core players

Gut feel is that we've been fielding in range of 1/3 to 1/2 a team of 22 and unders mate.

 

[Crusty Demon]

I think we both agree there needs to be change. I think we need to agree to disagree on the rest.

Will be interesting to see if Goodwin can create
something that is more attacking with what we have. He's got pressure from the board now to play a more appealing brand. We've played with a pretty young group at times, so it will take time,especially throwing in Langford and Lindsay now too. Hopefully we can do it but most of us for one reason or another feel It's going to be a struggle.

 

[Topkent]

Gut feel is that we've been fielding in range of 1/3 to 1/2 a team of 22 and unders mate.

That's ridiculous mate

May, Lever, Rivers Salem, McDonald
Langdon, Oliver, Trac, Viney, Sparrow Gawn
Brown, Fritsch, Pickett, Melksham, Chandler, ANB and Petty
Those guys have played the majority of the games for 3 years.
That's 18 names
For every Windsor and Mcvee, there's been a Hunter and Billings getting games as well.

I honestly have no idea where you pulled that from

We have the third oldest list in the AFL and regularly fielded old teams

AFL Team Statistics

AFL team statistics.

www.wheeloratings.com

We fielded the 5th oldest team by games this year. ½ under 22 is absolutely insane

 

[tomcruise]

That's ridiculous mate

May, Lever, Rivers Salem, McDonald
Langdon, Oliver, Trac, Viney, Sparrow Gawn
Brown, Fritsch, Pickett, Melksham, Chandler, ANB and Petty
Those guys have played the majority of the games for 3 years.
That's 18 names
For every Windsor and Mcvee, there's been a Hunter and Billings getting games as well.

I honestly have no idea where you pulled that from

We have the third oldest list in the AFL and regularly fielded old teams

AFL Team Statistics

AFL team statistics.

www.wheeloratings.com

We fielded the 5th oldest team by games this year. ½ under 22 is absolutely insane

The club was peddling something similar later in the year. Something like the most under 22 players that played in the season, which included Kynan Brown's 6 minutes on field. Made me more angry about it when they name-dropped as one of the young players in our team.

That and the Gus stuff as our reason for not making finals. Gtfo mate.