Opinion 13 Premierships Shared Between Just 4 Teams in the Last 17 years

[Swanssince91]

let's walk through each club with 0.

essendon: had dodoro managing their list
carlton: still recovering from salary cap breaches (I think this hurt the club more than people realise)
St.kilda: missed their chance with the golden generation
adelaide/port: got close several times
freo: never really had a great list on paper
north: actually got pretty close a few times but there is a recency bias.
gws/gc: are new
brisbane: lost their concessions that handed them 01/02/03.

seems pretty fair to me. it's impossible to have a completely fair competition.

the only thing I would throw out their us that Geelong have an articficial COLA because Geelong is such a great place to live.

And the pies were allowed to just throw back ended contracts in the bin

 

[South of the Yarra]

Sure let's look at the numbers

1970-9: Carlton x 3, Hawthorn x 3, North Melbourne x 2, Richmond x 2

1980-9: Hawthorn x 4, Carlton x 3, Essendon x 2, Richmond

1990-9: North Melbourne x 2, Adelaide x 2, West Coast x 2, Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon

2000-9: Brisbane x 3, Geelong x 2, Essendon, West Coast, Sydney, Hawthorn, Port Adelaide

2010-9: Hawthorn x 3, Richmond x 2, West Coast, Western Bulldogs, Geelong, Sydney

2020-3: Richmond, Melbourne, Geelong, Collingwood

So yeah every decade has a few teams dominate

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Collingwood 2010 ?

 

[kriles76]

Collingwood 2010 ?

Yes, and you can add Hawthorn 1991.

 

[Blackas87]

8 clubs over 17 years. Also 8 clubs if you extended to 19 years.

 

[kranky al]

let's walk through each club with 0.

essendon: had dodoro managing their list
carlton: still recovering from salary cap breaches (I think this hurt the club more than people realise)
St.kilda: missed their chance with the golden generation
adelaide/port: got close several times
freo: never really had a great list on paper
north: actually got pretty close a few times but there is a recency bias.
gws/gc: are new
brisbane: lost their concessions that handed them 01/02/03.

seems pretty fair to me. it's impossible to have a completely fair competition.

the only thing I would throw out their us that Geelong have an articficial COLA because Geelong is such a great place to live.

Cheap pubs for sale….

Heres the thing, and I’m sure my club is as guilty of this as any club. And the bigger your club the more opportunities there are to do it.

Theres a heap of footy tragics working in high places who are willing to make sure a player feels welcomed.

Fred blogs from massive building company x does 5 hi rise developments a year - player y gets to buy one off the plan for 80k under list price.

Bill bloggs owns chain of widget fixers and gets player z to do the commercials for an inflated fee.

Etc etc - i had an ex docker mate who played in the wafl and he got all work done to his car for free.

It’s not organised by the clubs - it’s people in power who are flexing their financial muscles. Its pretty much impossible to police.


It’s unfair in the sense that the big clubs have more fans and more people in position to do “favours”

 

[Swanssince91]

Cheap pubs for sale….

Heres the thing, and I’m sure my club is as guilty of this as any club. And the bigger your club the more opportunities there are to do it.

Theres a heap of footy tragics working in high places who are willing to make sure a player feels welcomed.

Fred blogs from massive building company x does 5 hi rise developments a year - player y gets to buy one off the plan for 80k under list price.

Bill bloggs owns chain of widget fixers and gets player z to do the commercials for an inflated fee.

Etc etc - i had an ex docker mate who played in the wafl and he got all work done to his car for free.

It’s not organised by the clubs - it’s people in power who are flexing their financial muscles. Its pretty much impossible to police.


It’s unfair in the sense that the big clubs have more fans and more people in position to do “favours”

That's got geelong written all over it

 

[kranky al]

That's got geelong written all over it

Mate every big club would have people doing it. My mate was just playing for one of the least of the wafl clubs and he got looked after something fierce.

The bigger the club the more people in power to do this stuff.

Its another example of where the small clubs and gc / gws will have a hard time coming close to what a player from collingwood or west coast will get as far as career wealth growth.

 

[banzai]

But surely teams that win are expected to be strong in the seasons surrounding a flag? They also get the finals confidence to win again. No team has won back to back minor premeirships in the last decade and only Geelong (one flag) and Sydney (no flags) have won it twice in that time.

 

[Freomaniac]

Been 59 years since we won a premiership at the MCG

hawks havent beaten a tenant at the MCG in a grand final since 1988.

 

[Blackas87]

hawks havent beaten a tenant at the MCG in a grand final since 1988.

Thanks for reminding me.

 

[Freomaniac]

I mean how many opportunities have Freo given themselves.

How many times has Freo had a run at the top, like once 12-15. I’m not talking about one pop up and disappear season like 06 but legitimate runs.

Freo have consistently shot themselves in the foot with drafting and trading.

It’s not the West Australia factor because West Coast is able to go on a run every 4-5 years.
Honestly with your home ground advantage you should be banking around 10 wins a year unless it completely falls off the rails like West Coast the last two years.

West coast has gotten less than 10 wins only 9 times from 37 seasons. Freo however is at 15 from 29 seasons, so what is wrong with Freo that more than half your seasons end with less then 10 wins? Mind you another 4 finished exactly on 10 so yeah Freo have had a losing record in 19 of 29 seasons.

Maybe you should just admit Freo is a poorly run club.

that I wont deny. Which is the main reason why the dockers are a badly run club. Some luck would help too.

 

[Magruder]

All things being equal, each team should win 1 flag in 18 years.
In the last 36 years, 10 teams have won two or more.
Four teams have won 1 (CARL / MELB / PORT* /WBD)
Four teams have won zero (STK / FRE* / GWS* / GCS*)

STK have played in three Grand Finals.
FRE & GWS have played in one.
*Have not been in the league for 36 years.
BOLD Played finals this year.

1999-2018 every team (except GCS) played in a GF.
12 clubs have won flags In the last 25 years.

comp evens itself up pretty quick.

 

[RUNVS]

Has there been a bigger recruit in the league since then?

No. We have not recruited a single best 22 player from another club since Buddy.

 

[Caligo]

No. We have not recruited a single best 22 player from another club since Buddy.

That can't possibly be true can it? Trying to think of one. Maybe a ruckman?

 

[RUNVS]

That can't possibly be true can it? Trying to think of one. Maybe a ruckman?

Nope.

Taylor
Menzel
Gray
Clarke
Hickey
Ladhams
Sinclair

They are our main recruits post Buddy and none of them were in the best 22 of their respective clubs when we traded for them.

The closest was maybe Sinclair, but even he is debatable as he was not best 22 at all if all of West Coast's ruckmen were fit.

 

[Caligo]

Nope.

Taylor
Menzel
Gray
Clarke
Hickey
Ladhams

They are our main recruits post Buddy and none of them were in the best 22 of their respective clubs when we traded for them.

Hickey and ladhams were best 22 the day they walked in the door for you though I think?

That is pretty sparse pickings though after going whack whack with tippett and budwah.

 

[RUNVS]

Hickey and ladhams were best 22 the day they walked in the door for you though I think?

That is pretty sparse pickings though after going whack whack with tippett and budwah.

I think Ladhams was in and out of the Port team when we recruited him and I am pretty sure Hickey was the same at West Coast, though I could be wrong.

We also recruited Brand from your mob, though he definitely was not best 22 at Hawthorn either.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

All things being equal, each team should win 1 flag in 18 years.
In the last 36 years, 10 teams have won two or more.
Four teams have won 1 (CARL / MELB / PORT* /WBD)
Four teams have won zero (STK / FRE* / GWS* / GCS*)

STK have played in three Grand Finals.
FRE & GWS have played in one.
*Have not been in the league for 36 years.
BOLD Played finals this year.

No they shouldn't.

All things being equal, each team should get an equal opportunity to the win the flag every year. Salary cap, uncompromised draft, uncompromised fixture, etc.

But of course, this is not how the AFL operate. For many reasons, it just isn't feasible.


Therefore, the realistic aim, should be that each team gets an equal opportunity to have a genuine 3-5 year window of opportunity each decade to win the flag.

Whether they take that opportunity or not, and actually convert that opportunity into a flag is a different story.


Unfortunately the AFL doesn't operate like this either. The AFL business model is about creating big clubs, and leveraging their drawing power to maximise revenue. This results in significant on-field advantage.

The big clubs get advantages that smaller clubs simply don't get.

It is not an even playing field. It's not even close. That's not up for debate.

The debate is whether it should be or not. And if it could be or not?

Could the AFL survive if North and St kilda were maximised in terms of their drawing power and getting 60k to 'blockbusters' - whilst Collingwood, Richmond and Essendon were playing in Tassie on Sunday evenings in front of 15k people?

North and St kilda would grow to a certain point and win more flags over time, due to the advantages that come with favourable fixturing - but the league's revenue would drop to a level where it's debatable whether it would survive.

 

[PhatBoy]

That's got geelong written all over it

Yeah it definitely does.
No other clubs exist in places that have businesses.

Just Geelong.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Where do you rate the Pies list, pound for pound? Their flag team had:

Frampton : Crows reject
Markov: Tiger and GC reject
WHE: average player
Cox: Yank who averages 7-touches a game.
Ginnivan: young kid who doesn’t produce much.
Pendles and Sidey: still very good players but both 34+
Mitchell: Hawks cast off
Lipinski: Average on-baller
Mihocek and McStay: handy KPF’s but nothing special
McReery: Role player who averaged 10 touches and kicked just 17 goals in 25 games in 2023

In other words… some teams are better managed, better developed and better coached than others. There’s no magic beans delivering flags. There’s no reason why any team can’t win flags - it’s not based on playing list, as the Pies list is probably mid-table. They were just the best coached and most disciplined team in 2023, simple as that.


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3 all Australian father sons, one nga player.

Tell me they would have won with them.

 

[Blackas87]

Mate every big club would have people doing it. My mate was just playing for one of the least of the wafl clubs and he got looked after something fierce.

The bigger the club the more people in power to do this stuff.

Its another example of where the small clubs and gc / gws will have a hard time coming close to what a player from collingwood or west coast will get as far as career wealth growth.

All clubs would be able to attract business opportunities for players. You don’t have to be a die hard Giants fan to realise the players are earning good money and they’d have the capabilities to invest in a business.

 

[Freddy Swift]

Because since 2007 we’ve had two of them. We’ve now had 15 Victorian premiers in 17 years. Andrew Demetriou had a sook when non Vic teams won 6 in a row.

Yes but 11 of those 15 flags were won by the same 3 sides. It’s not like it was 15 different Vic sides. Just teams who made the most of their premiership windows.

Why do you care so much about non-Vic teams if you’re a Melbourne supporter?

This is just another VICBIAS thread.

 

[demondavey]

Yes but 11 of those 15 flags were won by the same 3 sides. It’s not like it was 15 different Vic sides. Just teams who made the most of their premiership windows.

Why do you care so much about non-Vic teams if you’re a Melbourne supporter?

This is just another VICBIAS thread.

I’d like to see success from non Victorian clubs given it’s a proven tough job doing it on the MCG. I grew up supporting West Coast but changed in about year 7 due to nobody supporting them in Victoria and wanting to go to the games with my mates. Sort of stuck.

 

[dean33]

Pretty much. It’s more the movement of players from the expansion clubs to the big Victorian clubs. Hopper, Taranto, Lynch, Prestia, Cameron etc. Any concept of equalisation is as thin as piss, we’ve had a piss poor Gold Coast, and GWS only making one GF and a couple of PF. The AFL has parachuted in Hardwick for a last ditch effort to save them, with a premiership probably the only thing that might make retirees discuss something other than golf ball deals at their local clubhouse.

All that’s happened in the last 12 years since the expansion clubs came in is that Victorian clubs have become a lot stronger. From 2016 onwards, the following have left the expansion clubs and gone on to play in Victorian club flags;

Tom Boyd
Jacob Townsend
Josh Caddy
Dion Prestia
Tom Lynch
Steven May
Jeremy Cameron
Will Hoskin Elliott
Bobby Hill

That’s not to mention the players that didn’t play in premierships and have taken up their careers elsewhere with success.

All that’s happened is these clubs have just fed players back into Victoria for probably not much in return. Definitely not a good result for the game and definitely not good to see yet another Victorian club winning a flag. Next year we really need to see a non Victorian side winning. I’d hope GWS, Brisbane, Sydney or Port could lift it up.

To be fair of all the players we’ve got from giants and suns, only lynch was acquired as a FA. All the others we had to give up substantial draft capital for.
We’ve heard all season the giants won the hopper taranto trade so maybe we should complain of being fleeced by an expansion club?

 

[Iago]

At the conclusion of the 2015 season, he announced his intention to pursue his rights as a free agent to return to live in his hometown of Moggs Creek just outside Geelong.[41] He was officially traded to the Geelong Football Club in October

Free Agent.

Free agents don't get traded.

Not a free agent.