1982 Premiers vs 2012 Also Rans

[FootyGeek]

Maybe meet halfway and go with the 1997 rulebook.

This could be the two state solution of our times.

Maybe, just maybe, those who think 82 would smash 12 and those who think 12 would smash 82 might be able to have some common ground and a lasting peace may eventuate?

 

[Doss]

Maybe meet halfway and go with the 1997 rulebook.

I guess the question would then be, did the game change (in terms of game style and coaching, not administratively) more between 1982 and 1997, or 1997 and 2012?

For me, unquestionably the latter.

 

[Fadge]

Interesting that it's the same Carlton supporting posters who have confidence in their 2013 list and genuinely believe they are a premiership threat also believe their 1982 team would beat the 2012 Melbourne team, despite an evolution of 30 years in sports science, training methods and match tactics.

Just an observation.

 

[Monkey King]

Just an observation.

Just an observation? There's been plenty of non-Blues supporters taking the 82' team

How parochially partisan of you.

 

[*PAF]

This could be the two state solution of our times.

Maybe, just maybe, those who think 82 would smash 12 and those who think 12 would smash 82 might be able to have some common ground and a lasting peace may eventuate?

Using the rules from back then yes the best 12 players from the current team would probably get smashed.

 

[MaddAdam]

Carlton would belt the living crap out of them physically.

 

[MaddAdam]

I'd back North '96 versus any Swans grand final side but I think Hawks '12 would have us.

It's odd when you break it all down.

I would pay money to see Josh Gibson try and stand Wayne Carey.

Carey would f**k him onfield, then take him out on drugs and rooting competition and show the little toss how it is done properly there too.

 

[The Filth Wizard]

I would pay money to see Josh Gibson try and stand Wayne Carey.

Carey would f**k him onfield, then take him out on drugs and rooting competition and show the little toss how it is done properly there too.

And in exchange, Josh can teach Duck how to pull off casual spectacles.

 

[Doss]

And in exchange, Josh can teach Duck how to pull off casual spectacles.

The idea of hipster Carey does not sit well.

 

[ManOfClay]

Notice it's a lot of carlton fans adamant their 1982 side would be unbeatable.

 

[Fadge]

Just an observation? There's been plenty of non-Blues supporters taking the 82' team

How parochially partisan of you.

At the time I posted, the statistics were as follows:
5 of 6 Carlton supporters selected Carlton 1982 to beat Melbourne 2012;
5 of 24 non-Carlton supporters selected Carlton 1982 to beat Melbourne 2012.

 

[Monkey King]

At the time I posted, the statistics were as follows:
5 of 6 Carlton supporters selected Carlton 1982 to beat Melbourne 2012;
5 of 24 non-Carlton supporters selected Carlton 1982 to beat Melbourne 2012.

So you mean half of those who selected the 82' team were Carlton supporters and half were not

 

[Slattery_20]

There seems to be a tendency to forget the actual individuals from the 1982 Carlton team and the 2012 Melbourne side.
Carlton was coached by David Parkin, the Carlton team of the century coach and an excellent tactician.
Melbourne would be coached by Mark Neeld.
Does no one remember the embarrassing (failed) tactics he used against WCE in rd 2 2012?

Parkin actually devised the tactics in Carlton's flags of that era to suit the players at his disposable; the mosquito fleet. Players who would be equally suited to today's game.

The Carlton team of 1982 also contained 5 members of their team of the century (Ashman, Doull, Fitzpatrick, Hunter & Johnston). Do people really not think that players of that calibre, plus other multi-premiership winning players such as Bosustow, Harmes & Sheldon would not be able to adapt to today's game?

They were top line players, with due respect how many current Melbourne day players would people feel comfortable classing as such?

Exactly.
For mine, great players in any era are great players.
If the 82 guys walked straight out of a time machine, training 3 times a week, beer & ciggs after games etc, they would get destroyed.
Put both through the same schedules (either '82, or '12), the class would rise to the top.

 

[Fadge]

So you mean half of those who selected the 82' team were Carlton supporters and half were not

You could look at it that way.

Alternatively, you could look at it as 83% of Carlton supporters selected Carlton, whilst 21% on non-Carlton supporters selected Carlton.

However, my original comment wasn't specifically about the numbers, more about the posters who have equally unrealistic beliefs around a) how good their current team is, and b) how well their 1982 team would perform against a 2012 team who has the benefit of 30 years evolution of the game, professional v. part-time, advances in sports science, etc.

 

[Big Kahuna Boot]

..follow this through.. ..would Fangio be any less capable in modern times..?.. ..would Pele'..?.. ..would Borg..?.. etc etc

..in the OP, it's the blues 82 prem side vs 2012 dee's.. ..dee's were a very simple, predictable side this year.. ..kick long down the line to a contest.. ..if anything, their 2012 gameplan would resemble in some ways the gameplan of earlier times.. ..get the ball, quick movement by long kicking to position, and start again..

..i don't think it's such a cut and dry case, i think a champion team ought to be competitive regardless of time era [more or less].. ..remember this is a side that plenty of players had just won their 3rd flag in 4 years.. ..the demons list of 2012 isn't so chock full of champ players, and plenty of their talent is still young and developing..

 

[Monkey King]

You could look at it that way.

Alternatively, you could look at it as 83% of Carlton supporters selected Carlton, whilst 21% on non-Carlton supporters selected Carlton.

That's almost irrelevant to your comment though, as it's reasonable to think a high percentage of Blues fans would back their team, especially one as star-studded as the 82' premiership team. Had the club not had a shit fight at the end of 79' this little era may have won four straight flags.

But it's not just a matter of "you could look at it that way", but according to your original comment, centered around those posters selecting the 82' team being the same who rate the Blues chances for next season, it is the best way of looking at it. And as it stands it's half non-Carlton posters who've done that; so it's fair to say your original comment was slightly off-centre and intended more as a jibe than as insightful observation.

 

[mediumsizered]

Notice it's a lot of carlton fans adamant their 1982 side would be unbeatable.

Who said the 1982 side would be unbeatable? All that is being pointed out is that it is somewhat presumptuous to state that a team from now would definitely beat the 1982 Carlton premiership team. That Carlton team contained a core of players who were part of 3 premierships in 4 years, some of whom are among the best to have ever played for Carlton. Writing them off just because of different game plans & fitness regimes is a simplification of the debate. I appreciate that some who are devaluing the Carlton team of 1982 weren't even born in 1982 & therefore can only comment on what they have seen in their short lifetime, but they should try & be a bit more openminded.

 

[NetworkNerd]

I would go with a 3 match series using 1982 rules. The first game the bottom side of 2012 would outrun and outskill the tougher but slower opponent. However after seeing the tactics and realising they could clean the 'softer' sides of today the team of yesteryear would square the ledger by playing tough man-on-man and contested footy. The final match I think the side of today would win but it would be an interesting series no doubt.

 

[Stopher]

Rubbish

The 88,89 Hawthorn side would rip GWS to shreds.

Dunstall, Dermie, Buckenara would have a field day down forward.

 

[CrowEater888]

Carlton '82 were a champion team, chock full of champion players. They also had one of the great coaches.

On a mub bowl MCG, with old school rules and a massive crowd, the '82 Carlton team would tear the living snot out of the '12 Dees.

 

[Papa G]

GWS 2012 would beat Carlton 1982.

Faster, fitter, stronger, more skillful, superior startegy and coaching. 2 years of professional training at GWS would be equivilant of 10 years training after work on a Tuesday and Thursday night at Princes Park in 1982.

 

[MrRockett24]

I remember seeing an article after the Crows 1997 Premiership stating reasons why and how the Esseondon Team from 1985 would beat them and by how much. Was a fascinating article and whilst I thought that to be unbeleiveable, even for a 12 year difference, I am certain that would not be the case these days.

Even between Essendon 1985 & Melbourne 2012....Melbourne would win hands down. Guaranteed.

Hell, they would probably even beat some of the mid 90's Premiers. Body strength and attack on the ball would stuff them, but tactics, zones, rotations etc...even if it were close, any team from today would wear down a team of the past and beat most likely.

Players Like Rob Harvey and Buckely were superfit and the tactic was to run your oppoent into the ground...by covering 20+kms a game.

That sort of running doesnt mean anything compared to playing against 3 or 4 opponents who sprint a whole deal more.

Take into account Defensive Zones and presses, and centre clearance work....not to mention the overall size of players beign taller and fitter.

Pretty much most Pre 2000 teams would not cope in todays Football, against any opponent. It would take a special Team pre 2000 to beat any team of today.

 

[Elite Master]

Pretty much most Pre 2000 teams would not cope in todays Football, against any opponent. It would take a special Team pre 2000 to beat any team of today.

No I disagree with that. Teams from the late 90's like Brisbane (1999), Essendon (2000) and North (1999) would comfortably beat the lower end teams of today and others in and around the bottom 8 as well. I agree about teams from the early and maybe even mid 90s prior would find it harder.

 

[MrRockett24]

No I disagree with that. Teams from the late 90's like Brisbane (1999), Essendon (2000) and North (1999) would comfortably beat the lower end teams of today and others in and around the bottom 8 as well. I agree about teams from the early and maybe even mid 90s prior would find it harder.

For sure...that's why I said, "Pretty much most" and "It would take a special team". But maybe only due to size and physicality. Given 4 quarters of rotations against players like Brisbane, North & Essendon's 4 midfielders, if they won they wouldnt play the next week.

These would be the only teams to do it though...maybe North 1996 at best...but NOTHING before that...no chance.

Thinking the game would would be a tale o 2 halves. 1st Half, the 90's teams would come out physical and win a lot more hard ball and put it on the board moreso.
2nd Half the defensive pressure and zoning, flooding, forward press, and rotations, not to mention the spread of scoring players in a team now would wear down these 90's teams and the scoreboard would come back to a 3 goal game either way.

If Melbourne/GC/GWS/Port/Bulldogs (14th - 18th) had bigger bodies they would absorb the pressure from the 90's teams and then once worn down by late 3rd quarter, would run away with it in 4th.

I say this only purely due to body size and these teams willingness at a contest.


A slightly higher up team like 9th (Saints) to 12th (Richmond) would blow these teams away...10 goals...every day of the week.

90's teams wouldn't have the defensive mindset or structures to cope with wave after wave of 6-8 players streaming forward every break and would leak like a sieve.

These 2012 teams would cover Carey/Lloyd/Lynch at this time, same as they cover forwards now, cutting off the lead, double or triple teaming.

Ruck work from 2012 and the way ruckmen play and run these days would have Aleisio/McKernan/Keating on the bench for 15 mins every quarter.

The grunt and drive from these great teams centremen would be shutdown by tagging/rotations/structures.

Would love to see the result of a Saints/Carlton/Richmond 2012 Vs North/Brisbane/Essendon 1999-2000.

Would be a brilliant match....but yeah...10 Goals.

Anyone saying anything pre 1994 Vs any team 2012 is joking themselves.

 

[Blue Dawn]

At the time I posted, the statistics were as follows:
5 of 6 Carlton supporters selected Carlton 1982 to beat Melbourne 2012;
5 of 24 non-Carlton supporters selected Carlton 1982 to beat Melbourne 2012.

Get a life pal -better things to do then count posts to make a point on a blog site in front of the other kiddies.

Carlton 82 were a TRIPLE Premiership outfit - Melbourne have barely won 3 games of football!

Sports science/rotations/fitness/zones and flooding vs skill/mental toughness/winning attitude and culture/mongrel 'do anything' to win approach?

Know which I'm backing.