1st Test Australia v West Indies Jan 17-21 1000hrs @ the Adelaide Oval

[JackOutback]

You saying that shuffling the pack just to get Cam Green into the team didnt work?
It was a safety first move . Surely there is an opener worth trying within Australian domestic cricket?

There has to be some talent coming through because I reckon this lineup has about 3 years before they go off the edge of the cliff.
Tough times are coming.

Green’s a talent and I don’t hate getting him into the team. But likewise, he wouldn’t suffer from 6-12 months out of the team working on his game with a specialist opener selected instead.

As for blooding new talent, I agree Tests should be largely best available but there’s an opportunity to rest one and introduce a young player like Morris in a series like this.

 

[Santana]

89, 237, 115, 120

Touring team's 2nd innings totals so far this summer.
Bowling group has been extraordinary

 

[Ohitsthatguy]

89, 237, 115, 120

Touring team's 2nd innings totals so far this summer.
Bowling group has been extraordinary

Hazlewood needs to steer clear of white ball cricket because he is ridiculous with the red ball

We need to preserve him

 

[largebus]

Most players won't play for Australia let alone be a regular fixture in the team though. I can think of a few multi-sport talents that chose Cricket and gave up on it and went back to Aussie Rules in the last 6 or 7 years.

That's always gonna happen based on the number of opportunities in AFL compared to cricket.

On the other hand, Carey switched from GWS and Green played WA under-16's and was good enough to be drafted. Now they play a sport with a much longer career and lower risk of serious injury.

 

[10Dulkar]

89, 237, 115, 120

Touring team's 2nd innings totals so far this summer.
Bowling group has been extraordinary

I know it comes across on TV but watching Cummins in the flesh is extraordinary. He has complete command over his game and his combination of pace, accuracy, movement and subtle changes in length and line with the odd bouncer and yorker plus the ability to choke a batsman yet still be prepared to bowl a sucker ball and try to buy a wicket is mesmeric. That's without mentioning the aesthetic of his action (especially the gather) and his sheer force of will.

 

[Ohitsthatguy]

On the other hand, Carey switched from GWS and Green played WA under-16's and was good enough to be drafted. Now they play a sport with a much longer career and lower risk of serious injury.

I feel like they're the minority

 

[largebus]

I feel like they're the minority

Well yes, it's simple arithmetic that there's a lot more places on AFL lists than there is in domestic cricket. So if you're a decent footballer and decent but not brilliant cricketer it's not a hard decision for a young kid to make. If you're exceptional at both then cricket is the better option.

Pretty much all cricketers from footy states had to make the choice. Mitch Marsh played u-18s footy for WA with Nic Naitanui and was serious chance to go top 10 in the draft.
Both have had injury problems but Nic earned a fraction of the money for his trouble and has already retired, while Marsh is still in his prime. Even if Bison was a gun footballer it was still the right decision.

 

[Kensy006]

I know it comes across on TV but watching Cummins in the flesh is extraordinary. He has complete command over his game and his combination of pace, accuracy, movement and subtle changes in length and line with the odd bouncer and yorker plus the ability to choke a batsman yet still be prepared to bowl a sucker ball and try to buy a wicket is mesmeric. That's without mentioning the aesthetic of his action (especially the gather) and his sheer force of will.

I still feel like as soon as another captain option arises he should step aside. I think when backs against the wall it is too difficult for him to bowl at the highest the level and be the captain the team needs. I wonder how hard he can be to Starc and Hazelwood when they need it. I think he may be too biased.


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[JimmyBC]

As much as I've been hanging it on the West Indies I was impressed with McKenzie & S Joseph, I think they need two more players of a similar ilk and obviously more experience at the level & suddenly you are more competitive.

Test cricket isn't that strong so I think two very good quicks & two quality aggressive batsmen can change things for anyone, of course we have the problem of them being paid fukc all & the lure of franchise baby cricket.. step in ICC ffs.

 

[DaRick]

I feel like they're the minority

They probably are, but is there any current AFL footballer who could have played consistently at the highest level?

I know there are a number who could have played FC cricket, but that's a different kettle of fish.

 

[Cleavy]

 

[4Seasons]

its not about beating a drum ..its about picking the best player possible..if Renshaw was averaging 50 plus in the shield I wouldn't have an issue but he is not

I don't understand this state narrative you always go on about and keep sh**tting on WA and WA based players you have a serious issue dude

I didn't want Bancroft in over Green and they are both WA players

In regards to the concussion sub Bancroft is in the mix and Renshaw is more suited as the concussion sub and Bancroft is more suited to opening due to his record in the shield ....do you get that ?

They didn’t have Australia A games in the olden days, now they do, so they count to. Probably more so.

 

[Soggy2112]

As much as I've been hanging it on the West Indies I was impressed with McKenzie & S Joseph, I think they need two more players of a similar ilk and obviously more experience at the level & suddenly you are more competitive.

Test cricket isn't that strong so I think two very good quicks & two quality aggressive batsmen can change things for anyone, of course we have the problem of them being paid fukc all & the lure of franchise baby cricket.. step in ICC ffs.

It’s not on the ICC.

It’s largely about what the BCCI chooses to do, and that is largely influenced by what the IPL owners want. The only way test cricket can get back to being strong is if the BCCI chooses to prioritise it, and not just their own side.

CA is also not blameless here, it’s probably too late for us to have a meaningful impact now that the IPL franchises are branching out across the world, however there was an opportunity to protect the health of test cricket in the last 15 years and we chose to look after our own wallets.

Since 2008 we have toured:

Bangladesh once (2 tests)
England 5 times (25 tests)
India 5 times (18 tests)
New Zealand twice (4 tests)
Pakistan 4 times including the England/UAE series (9 tests)
South Africa 4 times (12 tests)
Sri Lanka 3 times (8 tests)
West Indies twice (5 tests)

We had the ability to bring eyeballs to test cricket and we didn’t put them in countries outside of the big 3 often enough.

We have played 3 away Ashes series since the last West Indies tour but then want to act upset about why there’s not enough money in test cricket there.

 

[Soggy2112]

They didn’t have Australia A games in the olden days, now they do, so they count to. Probably more so.

Shield cricket simply isn’t as strong as it was either. Can’t just look at the guy with the best average and assume he’s the best test option anymore.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Shield cricket simply isn’t as strong as it was either. Can’t just look at the guy with the best average and assume he’s the best test option anymore.

True for many years, now.

 

[dumb]

bancroft has made enough noises that could point to being a disruptive influence, for mine. he sounds entitled. you listen to someone like stoinis, who they were happy to select despite poor form and he spoke about being dropped making total sense - it makes it much easier to see why stoinis had remained in the team.

when you talk of blooding players, you do so for the future. someone like renshaw may not be the best option right now but with a longer term view he could be. there's the expectation you could have to carry a player a little bit until they find their feet.

 

[JimmyBC]

An Australian second eleven top 6 batting order from the 90's to early 2000's would be better than a number of test sides these days.. yea Shield cricket has gone to hell.

 

[Borisdog]

I was thinking how poorly the current players play the short ball the other day, then I saw some old footage of everyone from Lara, Tendulkar, Hayden, Ponting etc. etc. getting hit & wondered whether I'm just suffering from a rose coloured perception of the past

You're not.

They didn't get hit as often as this lot.

Go back pre-helmet. It was VERY rare that top order batsmen got hit. Admittedly when they did it was very nasty. And there simply wasn't the level of short stuff at the tail there is now, the odd slightly wide "frightener" sure, but not like now. They didn't need to. The protective gear has lead to the tail being happier to "get in behind it", and score more because of it.

I completely concur with "incorrect short ball technique". Getting inside the line would be a good start.

I told my missus when I first saw Hughes short ball technique that he'd get hurt eventually. In fact I couldn't believe a bloke with a technical flaw like that had actually made it to that level. It was genuine "ostrich" IMO

I actually played pre helmet so I have zero experience with them but I can't help wondering if they cause players to "lose" the ball in certain places/arcs. The amount of people getting nailed CANNOT POSSIBLY be attributed to solely to great bowling.

Or maybe the "fear" isn't there anymore. There used to be a considerable incentive to get out of the way if you weren't in the right place to hook/cut. There seems to be more tendency to ride or attempt to defend balls that previously would be ducked/weaved.

 

[Kensy006]

You're not.

They didn't get hit as often as this lot.

Go back pre-helmet. It was VERY rare that top order batsmen got hit. Admittedly when they did it was very nasty. And there simply wasn't the level of short stuff at the tail there is now, the odd slightly wide "frightener" sure, but not like now. They didn't need to. The protective gear has lead to the tail being happier to "get in behind it", and score more because of it.

I completely concur with "incorrect short ball technique". Getting inside the line would be a good start.

I told my missus when I first saw Hughes short ball technique that he'd get hurt eventually. In fact I couldn't believe a bloke with a technical flaw like that had actually made it to that level. It was genuine "ostrich" IMO

I actually played pre helmet so I have zero experience with them but I can't help wondering if they cause players to "lose" the ball in certain places/arcs. The amount of people getting nailed CANNOT POSSIBLY be attributed to solely to great bowling.

Or maybe the "fear" isn't there anymore. There used to be a considerable incentive to get out of the way if you weren't in the right place to hook/cut. There seems to be more tendency to ride or attempt to defend balls that previously would be ducked/weaved.

The power of fear


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[Kensy006]

True for many years, now.

How many shield teams would have beaten this West Indian team?


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[Borisdog]

The power of fear


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Yeah, don't underestimate how quick you can move when you think you're gunna get nailed.

I surprised myself many, many times.

 

[Westend]

Shield cricket simply isn’t as strong as it was either. Can’t just look at the guy with the best average and assume he’s the best test option anymore.

So pick players for the test team based on bbl form ??? Why isn’t the shield strong ? Looks good to me

Why are you so focussed on just the Shield?

All First Class also includes the Australia A games - where they're facing better bowlers!

That's far more informative.

Because the shield is the best domestic comp in the world and has been for years for nurturing and picking players for the test team

Better bowlers? . okay then you obviously don’t rate boland nesser Murphy Sutherland Richardson Morris Paris Johnson Perry bird they all play shield and are very good cricketers

Starc Cummins hazelwood Lyon are arguably the best bowling attack we have had and guess what they played shield cricket

Ask the test players what shield cricket means to them

 

[BGman]

gives another guy a chance to impress against a pretty good bowling attack

Tim Ward is still on CA radar despite a rather poor '22/23. They know he tends to always nail his chance when given a rep spot, either A, PM teams or this time CAX1. If there is a reluctance by selectors to promote the Tassie lefty to national level it is due to his moderate conversion rate. Scores plenty of 60/70/80s but the 100 seems to often elude him. Am thinking there may be a mental barrier there he needs to remove.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

I think bouncers almost need to be confined to the past. The game needs to become a bit safer in my ( probably controversial) view.

You have to be kidding, right? How about we use a tennis ball as well?

 

[Cameron_Jezza]

You have to be kidding, right? How about we use a tennis ball as well?

I am not kidding, but perhaps just seeing what others think.